• Biblical Families is not a dating website. It is a forum to discuss issues relating to marriage and the Bible, and to offer guidance and support, not to find a wife. Click here for more information.

Prayer request Meeting the Pastors

She read past that to:11 But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife.

Verse 11 does not justify leaving the husband.

It does not say "you can leave your husband, but if you do you must remain unmarried". It says "do not leave your husband, but if you do you must remain unmarried".

All it is saying is that if you sin by leaving your husband, do not compound your sin by getting a divorce, or further compound it by marrying another.

It also means that for a Christian women leaving your husband means of life of celibacy and being alone (at least until you go back to your husband).

Hypergamy (trading up) is strictly forbidden in scripture for both men and women
 
Verse 11 does not justify leaving the husband.

It does not say "you can leave your husband, but if you do you must remain unmarried". It says "do not leave your husband, but if you do you must remain unmarried".

All it is saying is that if you sin by leaving your husband, do not compound your sin by getting a divorce, or further compound it by marrying another.

It also means that for a Christian women leaving your husband means of life of celibacy and being alone (at least until you go back to your husband).

Hypergamy (trading up) is strictly forbidden in scripture for both men and women

That is what I said! Thanks for your prayers.
 
Verse 11 does not justify leaving the husband.

It does not say "you can leave your husband, but if you do you must remain unmarried". It says "do not leave your husband, but if you do you must remain unmarried".

All it is saying is that if you sin by leaving your husband, do not compound your sin by getting a divorce, or further compound it by marrying another.

It also means that for a Christian women leaving your husband means of life of celibacy and being alone (at least until you go back to your husband).

Hypergamy (trading up) is strictly forbidden in scripture for both men and women
Excellent summary. Why can't most pastors say it this easily?
 
Verse 11 does not justify leaving the husband.

It does not say "you can leave your husband, but if you do you must remain unmarried". It says "do not leave your husband, but if you do you must remain unmarried".

All it is saying is that if you sin by leaving your husband, do not compound your sin by getting a divorce, or further compound it by marrying another.

It also means that for a Christian women leaving your husband means of life of celibacy and being alone (at least until you go back to your husband).

Hypergamy (trading up) is strictly forbidden in scripture for both men and women
Trading up doesn't really have a definition that I am aware of. Hypergamy simply means marrying somebody from a different socio-economic status. Two singles can engage in hypergamy. A married man and single female could engage in hypergamy, without committing adultery. Just FYI.

Indeed I have seen where a lot of Christian women will try to define "reconcile", as "Oh he's not angry with me about the divorce any more", or "He has since moved on and married another woman, so it's OK." I raised my voice in objection to Steve Gregg, on The Narrow Path radio show, when he told his audience that it is OK to remarry, if your spouse has remarried, because it is impossible for you to reconcile with them, as if God's Word ever instructs us to do that which is impossible. He totally botched that passage, perverting it into a gender neutral passage. I emailed him my objection, but he never responded.

EDIT: He mentioned on his radio call-in show that he had written a book about this. I suppose he would no longer be able to promote that book, if he were to acknowledge the truth.
 
Excellent summary. Why can't most pastors say it this easily?

Because that would cause feel bads. They want to feel just in tearing down their houses and largely intent to remarry.
 
For all of you who pointed out that this could go badly, you were right. I didn't think so at the meeting but two weeks later when I received the senior pastor's reply, I was in shock. This is certainly helping me grow thicker skin which I will need since this is far from over. Thanks again for all your prayers.
 
For all of you who pointed out that this could go badly, you were right. I didn't think so at the meeting but two weeks later when I received the senior pastor's reply, I was in shock. This is certainly helping me grow thicker skin which I will need since this is far from over. Thanks again for all your prayers.
Praying for you, brother. Let us know if there is anything we can do to help...
 
For all of you who pointed out that this could go badly, you were right. I didn't think so at the meeting but two weeks later when I received the senior pastor's reply, I was in shock. This is certainly helping me grow thicker skin which I will need since this is far from over. Thanks again for all your prayers.
Is there anything in the response you can share that might help us or others to be better prepared?
 
Is there anything in the response you can share that might help us or others to be better prepared?
There is 8 pages worth which amounts to a lecture on proper interpretation. Followed by some biblical gymnastics that all shout one man one woman for life and ending with as Steve said "they agree with her that he is too perverted to be married to her fine self." I hesitate to share more because he implied he has been on here or a similar site and I don't want to antagonize him. I want to leave room for God to work.
 
Here was my reply:

Dear Pastors and Elder,

The tone of your judgement has brought me much grief and confusion. I came to you with simplicity and carefulness to not add or read into the passages from scripture. I include those notes here:

1. God in His word never condemns polgyny, instead he condones and regulates it.

When God through the prophet Nathan is rebuking David for his sin of adultery he speaks of the blessings David had been given, which included wives.

2 Samuel 12
7 Thus saith Jehovah, the God of Israel, I anointed thee king over Israel, and I delivered thee out of the hand of Saul; 8 and I gave thee thy master's house, and thy master's wives into thy bosom, and gave thee the house of Israel and of Judah; and if that had been too little, I would have added unto thee such and such things.

Regulation:
Exodus 21:10 If he take him another [wife]; her food, her raiment, and her duty of marriage, shall he not diminish.

Deuteronomy 17:17 Neither shall he multiply wives to himself, that his heart turn not away: neither shall he greatly multiply to himself silver and gold.

2. God is willing to describe Himself as the husband of two wives:
Ezekiel 23:1 The word of Jehovah came again unto me, saying, 2 Son of man, there were two women, the daughters of one mother: 3 and they played the harlot in Egypt; they played the harlot in their youth; there were their breasts pressed, and there was handled the bosom of their virginity. 4 And the names of them were Oholah the elder, and Oholibah her sister: and they became mine, and they bare sons and daughters. And as for their names, Samaria is Oholah, and Jerusalem Oholibah.

3. Many righteous men had multiple wives.

4. The new testament is silent on this matter except to choose church leaders that are one woman men.


I fail to see how any of this is confusing, reading into or twisting his Holy words.


I am further confused by your reading of Matthew 19:3-9. The context is clearly about divorce and the hardened hearts that wanted to toss aside a faithful wife instead of following the commandment found in Exodus 21:10. When Jesus quotes Genesis 2:24-25 he shows what their hearts should be like. Seeing her as their own flesh. Would you want to tear your own flesh apart? But these hard-hearted men lived in a patriarchal society and seem to see women as nothing more than employees or slaves.


I am surprised by you confusing multiple with multiply in Deuteronomy 17

14 “When you enter the land which the Lord your God gives you, and you possess it and live in it, and you say, ‘I will set a king over me like all the nations who are around me,’ 15 you shall surely set a king over you whom the Lord your God chooses, one from among your [l]countrymen you shall set as king over yourselves; you may not put a foreigner over yourselves who is not your [m]countryman. 16 Moreover, he shall not multiply horses for himself, nor shall he cause the people to return to Egypt to multiply horses, since the Lord has said to you, ‘You shall never again return that way.’ 17 He shall not multiply wives for himself, [n]or else his heart will turn away; nor shall he greatly increase silver and gold for himself.



What I see here is a king could have multiple horses and wives but he was not to multiply them. In our present time this reminds me of hoarding. Solomon did this and the whole kingdom felt the consequences. And he was heartless to those many women who were unable to enjoy a husband and children because of this.



Other Matters

1. I do believe you have Grace’s best interest at heart.

2. You don’t know me. But you accuse me of adultery of the mind. That leads either to action or insanity.

3. I do not hear the Holy Shepherd’s voice in your judgment nor the quality of teaching I am accustomed to hearing when we meet.

4. If Grace chooses to leave me, I will diligently pray for her and continue to keep the vows I made to God concerning her. These are the vows I made:

I Gary take you Grace to be my wife. I promise before God and our friends to be the husband that Christ would want me to be. I will love you as Christ loves you. I will honor and I will guide you. I will live with you in joy and sorrow, in sickness and health. I will encourage you. I will seek to understand you and meet your needs. I will be committed to you alone. By God's grace and in his strength, I will keep these vows till death do us part.

5. I understand that a vow, even made under a cloud of deception, is still binding as can be seen in Israel’s dealings with the Gibeonites.



Sincerely,

Gary Slaughenhaupt
 
There is 8 pages worth which amounts to a lecture on proper interpretation. Followed by some biblical gymnastics that all shout one man one woman for life and ending with as Steve said "they agree with her that he is too perverted to be married to her fine self." I hesitate to share more because he implied he has been on here or a similar site and I don't want to antagonize him. I want to leave room for God to work.
That's fine. Discretion is good.
If they're not threatening to excommunicate you and you generally enjoy the fellowship overall, I would say stay and continue to study and believe as you do in private.
 
Here was my reply:

Dear Pastors and Elder,

The tone of your judgement has brought me much grief and confusion. I came to you with simplicity and carefulness to not add or read into the passages from scripture. I include those notes here:

1. God in His word never condemns polgyny, instead he condones and regulates it.

When God through the prophet Nathan is rebuking David for his sin of adultery he speaks of the blessings David had been given, which included wives.

2 Samuel 12
7 Thus saith Jehovah, the God of Israel, I anointed thee king over Israel, and I delivered thee out of the hand of Saul; 8 and I gave thee thy master's house, and thy master's wives into thy bosom, and gave thee the house of Israel and of Judah; and if that had been too little, I would have added unto thee such and such things.

Regulation:
Exodus 21:10 If he take him another [wife]; her food, her raiment, and her duty of marriage, shall he not diminish.

Deuteronomy 17:17 Neither shall he multiply wives to himself, that his heart turn not away: neither shall he greatly multiply to himself silver and gold.

2. God is willing to describe Himself as the husband of two wives:
Ezekiel 23:1 The word of Jehovah came again unto me, saying, 2 Son of man, there were two women, the daughters of one mother: 3 and they played the harlot in Egypt; they played the harlot in their youth; there were their breasts pressed, and there was handled the bosom of their virginity. 4 And the names of them were Oholah the elder, and Oholibah her sister: and they became mine, and they bare sons and daughters. And as for their names, Samaria is Oholah, and Jerusalem Oholibah.

3. Many righteous men had multiple wives.

4. The new testament is silent on this matter except to choose church leaders that are one woman men.


I fail to see how any of this is confusing, reading into or twisting his Holy words.


I am further confused by your reading of Matthew 19:3-9. The context is clearly about divorce and the hardened hearts that wanted to toss aside a faithful wife instead of following the commandment found in Exodus 21:10. When Jesus quotes Genesis 2:24-25 he shows what their hearts should be like. Seeing her as their own flesh. Would you want to tear your own flesh apart? But these hard-hearted men lived in a patriarchal society and seem to see women as nothing more than employees or slaves.


I am surprised by you confusing multiple with multiply in Deuteronomy 17

14 “When you enter the land which the Lord your God gives you, and you possess it and live in it, and you say, ‘I will set a king over me like all the nations who are around me,’ 15 you shall surely set a king over you whom the Lord your God chooses, one from among your [l]countrymen you shall set as king over yourselves; you may not put a foreigner over yourselves who is not your [m]countryman. 16 Moreover, he shall not multiply horses for himself, nor shall he cause the people to return to Egypt to multiply horses, since the Lord has said to you, ‘You shall never again return that way.’ 17 He shall not multiply wives for himself, [n]or else his heart will turn away; nor shall he greatly increase silver and gold for himself.



What I see here is a king could have multiple horses and wives but he was not to multiply them. In our present time this reminds me of hoarding. Solomon did this and the whole kingdom felt the consequences. And he was heartless to those many women who were unable to enjoy a husband and children because of this.



Other Matters

1. I do believe you have Grace’s best interest at heart.

2. You don’t know me. But you accuse me of adultery of the mind. That leads either to action or insanity.

3. I do not hear the Holy Shepherd’s voice in your judgment nor the quality of teaching I am accustomed to hearing when we meet.

4. If Grace chooses to leave me, I will diligently pray for her and continue to keep the vows I made to God concerning her. These are the vows I made:

I Gary take you Grace to be my wife. I promise before God and our friends to be the husband that Christ would want me to be. I will love you as Christ loves you. I will honor and I will guide you. I will live with you in joy and sorrow, in sickness and health. I will encourage you. I will seek to understand you and meet your needs. I will be committed to you alone. By God's grace and in his strength, I will keep these vows till death do us part.

5. I understand that a vow, even made under a cloud of deception, is still binding as can be seen in Israel’s dealings with the Gibeonites.



Sincerely,

Gary Slaughenhaupt
Thank you! Shalom brother, shalom.
 
Will be praying for you. May the Lord lead and guide you. Do not fear for the truth in the Lord Jesus will prevail.
 
There is 8 pages worth which amounts to a lecture on proper interpretation. Followed by some biblical gymnastics that all shout one man one woman for life and ending with as Steve said "they agree with her that he is too perverted to be married to her fine self." I hesitate to share more because he implied he has been on here or a similar site and I don't want to antagonize him. I want to leave room for God to work.
Are they trying to get Grace to leave you? Can you elaborate on what he shared in the letter that implies that he has been on here or on a similar site?

The way I understand Scripture, is that the prohibitions against divorce are primarily directed at the husband, whereas the prohibitions against remarriage are primarily directed at the wife. That doesn't mean that your wife is free to leave you, because I Cor 7:10 does pretty much say that she should remain with her husband, but if she does, fornication on the part of her husband, does not permit her to remarry. The fornication exception, was given to the husband who divorces his wife, and not the wife divorcing her husband. A lot of pastors are clueless about the gender specificity of these commands. You might want to clue him in on that, and watch for him to try to play gymnastics with Scriptures, in order to try to claim that those requirements are the same for both men and women.
 
Dear Mr. Pastor who may be reading this:

When you condemn polygamy you propagate a doctrine of demons (1 Tim 4:1-3) and call good evil.

When you justify a woman divorcing a monogamous man over his mere assent to theological ideas (Malachi 2:16, 1 Cor 7:39) you call evil good.

Isaiah 5:

20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter

21 Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight!

22 Woe unto them that are mighty to drink wine, and men of strength to mingle strong drink:

23 Which justify the wicked for reward, and take away the righteousness of the righteous from him!

24 Therefore as the fire devoureth the stubble, and the flame consumeth the chaff, so their root shall be as rottenness, and their blossom shall go up as dust: because they have cast away the law of the Lord of hosts, and despised the word of the Holy One of Israel.

You may not like the idea of polygamy but for the existing marriage, "What God has joined together, let not man separate."
 
Back
Top