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Monogamous Couples Blessing Polygny Families?

Dr. K.R. Allen

Member
Real Person
What if a monogamous couple adopted a polygyny couple in order to bless them with children?

By this I was thinking today about this. There are some polygynous couples who cannot have children and they struggle at being able to adopt due to regulations.

I am curious/brainstorming if monogamous couples could rise to the occasion and adopt children and then grant custodial rights (like a form of legal guardianship) to a family they want to serve? I think this might even work legally as a legal parent can give rights to whoever for their children if I understand it rightly. I imagine there is a legal process where this could be done. It would be worth checking.

Just something to ponder for those who the Lord has in monogamous relationships. Maybe the Lord is calling you to be a surrogate monogamous family in order to bless a polygyny family that has not yet been able to have children.

It does seem like a potenial way someone could show the spirit of Christlike love to another.

Dr. Allen
 
Whew! For a moment there I thought you were going for the promotion of test-tube surrogate baby-mommas.
 
Huh??? :?
 
lol, Meaning that the monogamous couple would carry the baby through the gestation period for the poly family.
 
i would never, ever, give the responsibility of a child that i was responsible for bringing into the world up to any others!
are not the disasters in relationships that we are surounded with enough without bringing more complicating factors in?
they are not puppies, for crying out loud!
 
Steve, that is not what this post is about. It is about a monogampus couple/family adopting and then giving custody to a polygynous family through a proper legal arrangement. Some polygynous families cannot have children and they are not able to adopt. Thus it might be something for a monogamous family to consider as a way of serving a family who may not "qualify" by themselves by an adoption agency.

It is NOT talking about a couple conceiving and then giving up the child they conceive. I think maybe you misread the original post or something.
 
3)using the legal system to circumvent the law or the courts does not seem like a good way for this community to present itself before our detractors

2)if we were to disagree with the couple on how they were raising the child (and no two couples agree in all of the nuances of raising a child) it could get messy and bring shame upon the community

1)even in adopting a child i would be taking on the responsibility for that child before YHWH. no difference in my mind.
 
:lol: ok well then it is clearly not for you by your conscience...maybe it is though for others to think about.
 
If the courts place adoptive children with gay couples, and they do, they have no reason to balk at placing them with poly families, though one of the wives must become the legal mother.

This has happened. Thus there's no need for this circum-whatever. :)
 
Dr. K.R. Allen said:
I am curious if monogamous couples would rise to the occasion and adopt children and then grant custodial rights to a family they want to serve? I think this might even work legally as a legal parent can give rights to whoever for their children if I understand it rightly. I imagine there is a legal process where this could be done. It would be worth checking.

Just something to ponder for those who the Lord has in monogamous relationships. Maybe the Lord is calling you to be a surrogate monogamous family in order to bless a polygyny family that has not yet been able to have children.

What an awful idea!!!!! Seriously, just awful!
I was an adopted child and as an adult I became actively involved with Adult Adoptee's rights. I am also involved with other aspects of adoption reform. "First Parents" (the new term replacing "Birth Parents") have an absolute say-so in who raises their child and very often they choose the adoptive parents themselves! For a monogamous couple to adopt a child, all the while knowing they were doing it for another family is highly dishonest, as it completely circumvents the desires and choice of the First Parents! Even if we're not talking about infants, it's still dishonest. Any family who applies to adopt a child must complete a detailed (and often personally invasive) home study process. In order to carry out what you're suggesting, the mono couple would have to lie in order to pass the study! I would also remind everyone that the current trend in adoption is "open adoption", First Parents, in many cases, have agreements with the adoptive family allowing varying degrees of continued contact. What happens when the FP's find out their child is no longer w/ the family they consented to adopt the child ??? Can anyone say "LITIGATION" ?????
Even if you have a situation where the First Parents are okay with a poly family adopting the child....you wouldn't even need the mono couple in that case....the FP's could deal directly with the poly family, thus removing the need for "mono couple".
Sorry Keith, I know you're heart is in the right place but this is just a REALLY BAD IDEA!
Blessings,
Fairlight
 
Hummm...do we know any couples who are publicly known to be polygynists and have passed the standards applied for adoption? I'm not sure any have as of yet. Does anyone know?
 
Fairlight, well it might very well not be good....not sure...brainstorming though :cool:

I know I have seen grandparents who have adopted great great grandchildren to then only turn the kids over to a younger family, non-blood related, to run the day to day stuff with the kids. It was kinda of like a guardianship situation where the grandparents had primary custody but due to their age they gave the day raising of the kids to a godly family who was placed as legal guardians of the children.

Those kids were raised by that family for about 15 years. The great great grandparents died about the time the kids reached adulthood but did get to see the children raised well by an energetic and godly family.

Not sure why it was worked out that way but it worked for them legally and even for the good of those kids.

I was thinking along those lines. If a monogamous couple adopted and then made the polygyny family legal guardians of the children kinda of like what this family did.

Anyway, just brainstorming. It very well maybe something that can't be done, or it might be doable both ethically and legally. Not sure.
 
Dr. K.R. Allen said:
I know I have seen grandparents who have adopted great great grandchildren to then only turn the kids over to a younger family, non-blood related, to run the day to day stuff with the kids. It was kinda of like a guardianship situation where the grandparents had primary custody but due to their age they gave the day raising of the kids to a godly family who was placed a legal guardians of the children.

Those kids were raised by that family for about 15 years. The great great grandparents died about the time the kids reached adulthood but did get to see the children raised well by an energetic and godly family.

Not sure why it was worked out that way but it worked for them legally and even for the good of those kids.

This is a very different situation that didn't require being dishonest in order to carry it out.
Blessings,
Fairlight
 
Nah, I was not talking about being dishonest. Sorry if it sounded like that.

I was thinking along the lines of the adopting couple taking primary custody and then giving legal guardianship.....besides some state agencies are eager to get children out of them and into homes.

First, I'm not sure the adopting couple has to disclose everything if not asked. Second, but if asked I'm not sure that such a plan as that would automatically be ruled out if there was the primary custody clause. In the case of the family I am thinking about when they went to apply to adopt the great grand kids from the state agency that had custody of them they were not asked if they were going to add other legal guardians to the children once adopted.

But mercy, it sure would be nice if these kids living in DSS/state custody could be placed in homes all across the country.

Creative thinking here on ways to do that. But then again, it would just be nice if we could get it to the point where poly families were not discriminated against and they could adopt with no issues.

I'm not sure that it has not been done but I've not heard of any testimonies where it has been done either.
 
Dr. K.R. Allen said:
Hummm...do we know any couples who are publicly known to be polygynists and have passed the standards applied for adoption? I'm not sure any have as of yet. Does anyone know?

Currently, if an openly poly family applies to adopt a child through the D.S.S. or a private agency will be denied. Openly homosexual couples can , in many circumstances, legally adopt through the D.S.S. and "some" private agencies. Unfortunately, homosexual couples have achieved a level of social acceptance that poly families don't currently have. With an agency or the DSS, a poly family would be "persona non grata". Private adoptions "might" be possible if the First Parents are okay with a poly family taking their baby...however, even in private adoptions, a judge has to sign off on it. It's a bit risky.
Blessings,
Fairlight
 
Having lived and worked in a Mexican orphanage, I concur with Fairlight. For a time we had exclusive care of a 14 month old baby girl named Danitza. Very complicated situation which I won't try to explain here, but in the brief time we had her, both of us bonded to her,(Steve was absolutely over the moon about li'l D,) and I will never forget the day her birth mother and grandmother came to get her.

Her grandmother looked at me and said, in Spanish, "You love her, don't you?" She understood my pain at giving her up. I absolutely cannot imagine what a woman would experience in going through the invasive home study Fairlight discusses, and then giving that child up.

A possible alternative might be snow flake babies, the implantation of frozen embryoes, but even then, the first family has to approve the birth family. If they were pro poly, it might work, but all the cards would have to be on the table in order for the situation to be equitable.

It seems that the best thing for a poly fam in this instance would be to take a sister wife with young kids.
 
Dr. K.R. Allen said:
I was thinking along the lines of the adopting couple taking primary custody and then giving legal guardianship.....besides some state agencies are eager to get children out of them and into homes.

I was a licensed foster parent for six years and you're right, there are many older children languishing in the system. Once again, the current trend in foster care is "reunification" w/ their biological families. The kids who are available for adoption are usually older kids and very often they have a lot of serious problems. The DSS are eager to place them but what happens a lot is the families who take them can't handle the problems and the children are bounced back into the system. I've seen it happen over and over. There have been success stories, too...but any family who goes this route needs to understand these kids can be extremely difficult to deal with. My daughter came to me from the foster care system...but she was one of the most difficult kids I had. Another thing to consider is if the DSS finds out that the adoptive couple have given custody over to a poly family. In all liklihood they will all be getting visits from C.P.S. (even if the child was legally adopted, C.P.S. can intervene at any time and remove the child).

Dr. K.R. Allen said:
But mercy, it sure would be nice if these kids living in DSS/state custody could be placed in homes all across the country.

Agreed! :)

Blessings,
Fairlight
 
Dr. K.R. Allen said:
Hummm...do we know any couples who are publicly known to be polygynists and have passed the standards applied for adoption? I'm not sure any have as of yet. Does anyone know?

Circa 2001, close friends of mine in Michigan became foster parents despite their poly practice, and knew another family in that state who had successfully adopted.
 
There are some polygynous couples who cannot have children and they struggle at being able to adopt due to regulations.

I am curious/brainstorming if monogamous couples could rise to the occasion and adopt children and then grant custodial rights (like a form of legal guardianship) to a family they want to serve?
, I'm not sure the adopting couple has to disclose everything if not asked
Nah, I was not talking about being dishonest.
really?
you do not realize that you are advocating an attempt to decieve?
 
Steve,

I suppose you may not be familiar with legal systems and the detailed nuances that sometimes can be involved. Sometimes terminology makes all the difference in the world to the legal entities even if the practical outworkings arrive at the same destination. And in some cases and situations the legal entities and people involved both desire the same outcome but because of the numerous hurdles in place in between steps must be taken to arrive at the final goal. It is the nature of the beast when dealing with laws and regulations that even sometimes conflict with one another.

For example, the couple I spoke of, if you even read the full post where I shared the story of the grandparents, adopted their great great grandchildren with the purpose of adding another family as legal guardians over the children due to their age.

The family that they loved and trusted with their grandchildren had a criminal record and thus could not pass the standards of adoption. Yet the grandparents knew the couple, their conversion to Christ, and the godly character that had developed in them over the past 12 or so years since their conversion and discipleship. In some ways the young couple had become a model that the older grandparents truly adored.

Thus, when the great great grandkids were placed in state custody these older grandparents who were up in age approached the situation legally and ethically with a lawyer who walked them through the process. They could adopt and then place along with them a legal guardian or guardians over the children. But if the younger couple wanted the children through straight adoption the agency regulations did not allow it.

But the agency regulations did indeed allow primary custodiansthe right to add other legal guardians by their own will and consent once they adopted. In other words, once adopted the regulations allowed for that set of new parents to add legal guardians as they saw fit. But the agency regulations did not allow a couple to adopt for primary custody who had a criminal record.

Thus, in my brainstorming session, one which as it looks has brought out some of your presuppositions more than any brainstorming, I was curious about two things: (1) If this set of grandparents could do something like that legally could it be done by others who do something similar, and (2) could it be done by monogamous couples who stand in the gap so to speak for polygynous couples?

Was there a way where monogamous couples could ethically and legally adopt and then give or add legal guardianship to another family if they so desire? In such case if it were possible the additiona legal guardianship is about the same as someone spiritually adopting another person. I probably should have placed this story in the original post but I was typing and watching a game at the same time and thus kept it shorter.

Anyway, back to the point herein. At least for those of us who work in and around legal circles we recognize that if someone does not ask there is not always the requirement (biblically, ethically, or legally) to disclose everything. Even sometimes when we are asked we do not even have to answer. Prime example: the 5th Amendement in criminal trials. A person can truly be innocent and still choose not to talk and in doing so he is not attempting to deceive. Nondiscloure can and often is very different than deception.

Even more specific, in this case the grandparents were not asked about this by the agency before hand and by legal precedent there was no reasonable expectation that the agency needed to know their plans, as both the lawyer and judge both confirmed when certain matters were brought up in family court by a distant drug-headed cousin who through petition asked for the court to require the grandparents to explain if they were going to let this other family with a criminal record see or supervise the children. In her eyes (the cousin) if she could not file to obtain custody of the children because of her criminal record then the great great grandparents should not be able to obtain primary custody if they did not promise to keep the children from this other couple who also had a past criminal record.

The judge, as well as the highest legal opinion of the state from the AG's office, believed that by law so long as the adoptive parents were sound enough to pass the agency regulations, and if they were of sound mind, and were economically stable that they could choose once they adopted the children who they deemed to be safe people to let their children be supervised by. In his words: "The court has no right to require nor even ask these potential adoptive parents anything further than what is speficically required in agency regulation and by state law. Anything further is out of the bounds of legal precedent and is judicial activism by setting up a higher or more intrusive law than what is on the legal books." The cousin's petition was therefore denied.

So yes, there are times when both ethically, legally, and in biblical wisdom if you are not asked something you have no obligation to tell what you believe or plan to do. There is nothing dishonest or deceptive about nondisclosure of some facts that are not essential to the established laws and regulations at face value.

But, again if I had of spelled all of that out it would have made things clearer as to what I meant by adoption and legal guardianship and my goal of brainstorming if there is a way something like that could be done that uses the courts systems, laws, regulations, and missional purposes of Christ's love all collectively for the goal of removing kids from state custody and placing them in loving homes. Some monogamous families could adopt but they do not desire the extra labor. But if there were situations where the monogamous couple could legally adopt and then give guardianship to another family, like these grandparents did, then I think it is worth consideration. It could, of course, hinge upon a lot of factors such as from state to state variations in laws.

Interestingly, though, these grandparents had the right heart and motive in it too. When asked as to why they did not want to keep the kids they replied: "Oh we really just want to be grandparents. We'll bring them over for ice cream and candy and spoil them with things like that then send them home when we are tired of their hyper-activity. Besides we're not young enough to get out and play ball and run and do all that kid stuff anymore. But we can use the system for a rightoues end goal, one that will bless both our hearts in seeing those kids have a good place to call home and this lovely couple who has not been able to adopt or have kids."

Such an unselfish act on their part yet so wise and honorable at the same time. In that scenario everyone came out ahead and Christ was honored even if everyone had to examine the matter from a multifaceted approach. And most of all, the children got to be raised in a loving home because love motivated the adults involved to do all they could to be creative for their own good. Creativity is also not always deception either!

But too, of course, it is generally a common courtesy to give someone the benefit of doubt in love too before thinking they are intending to purposefully deceive (1 Cor. 13:7). Even our court systems start from that same base and if they being secular have that high of a standard how much more so should the people of God when interacting with one another?
 
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