All good points Samuel! I would also add that in Revelation Christ speaks specifically to seven different churches separately, not homogeneously. While we can say all of those letters to the churches can speak to us all, He specifically speaks to them individually. It’s essentially seven plurals.
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Monogamy of Christ & The Church
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Five of which are diciplined... ultimately, Scripture says (multiple times), 'keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Yeshua '.. challenging, but we must sort what that means.
I have, and it doesn’t mean what you think it means. Can we please keep this topic in the thread that discusses it?
I would say that is the only option that harmonizes all the scripture.
That is interesting. So, we had an old fashioned biblical wedding way back when. My dad totally approved of my hubby. The wedding got put off until he could be there....so we ended up celebrating what already was.
Biblical is good. Too bad churchgoers who's god is basically the state don't appreciate all that. They try and guilt you for not waiting, then say that without a license you're just "shacked up." Well, marriage is a commitment and becoming one. Not a piece of paper. 'Nuff said.
Well that's just so ridiculously wrong I'm still as shocked to hear it today as the first time you said it. It's an idea that simply can't be reconciled with the NT.
Ezekiel 36:22-38
Deuteronomy 30:1-6
Hosea 1:10-11
Jeremiah 31
Acts 1:6-8
If your theology and eschatology do not include those unfulfilled passages, then you have some sorting to do. God made promises He will keep. Only then does the gunē of Revelation 19:7-8 become the woman He takes (back).
Deuteronomy 30:1-6
Hosea 1:10-11
Jeremiah 31
Acts 1:6-8
If your theology and eschatology do not include those unfulfilled passages, then you have some sorting to do. God made promises He will keep. Only then does the gunē of Revelation 19:7-8 become the woman He takes (back).
See previous reply, but also, for the record, the OT does not need to be reconciled with the NT. It's the other way around.
The NT has to be reconciled to the OT. The OT is the foundation. If the NT does not align with the OT, then it is off the foundation and is a house built on sand.... The wise man builds his house on the rock...
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Where is Solomon's children?
If Solomon is a positive roll model to describe a positive polygamist lifestyle we each have with God, and the song of solomon a wonderful love story, why did he become such a failure in regards to marriage?
If anything it somehow would suggest that we could led God astray if we are His wives individually. There must be something deeper.
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You glorify the foundation more than the house it is built on. Correct, the foundation is most important, but when you look at a house as a whole, you say, My what a beautiful house. Not, my what a beautiful foundation that house is built on.
The NT is the summation of the OT. Your error is in you focus, broaden you view.
@Cap the 'house' I was raised in began to fall apart when Truth came calling. He took me to the foundation and then swept away all the lean-tos that religion added.
From the everlasting Word of God (Isaiah 8)
16¶Bind up the testimony, seal the Torah among my disciples.
17And I will wait for the LORD who is hiding His face from the house of Jacob; I will even look eagerly for Him.
18Behold, I and the children whom the LORD has given me are for signs and wonders in Israel from the LORD of hosts, who dwells on Mount Zion.
19¶When they say to you, “Consult the mediums and the spiritists who whisper and mutter,” should not a people consult their God? Should they consult the dead on behalf of the living?
20To the Torah and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because they have no dawn.
From the everlasting Word of God (Isaiah 8)
16¶Bind up the testimony, seal the Torah among my disciples.
17And I will wait for the LORD who is hiding His face from the house of Jacob; I will even look eagerly for Him.
18Behold, I and the children whom the LORD has given me are for signs and wonders in Israel from the LORD of hosts, who dwells on Mount Zion.
19¶When they say to you, “Consult the mediums and the spiritists who whisper and mutter,” should not a people consult their God? Should they consult the dead on behalf of the living?
20To the Torah and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because they have no dawn.
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I am glad that whatever message you got lead you to find whatever truth you can get out of the written Words of God. But, that is a message for you, and not necessarily a message for someone else.
But the reality here is that if one really look at what you are trying to say, and can look past all the surface jargon, you and Pacman, and others, try and preach about Torah brotherly love and us all being a family, is not really true. You believe beyond a shadow of a doubt that your way is correct and any other way is not. Those who oppose you do not have a 'dawn'. Your mission is to make them have a 'dawn'. That's were people bristle at this idea. It's a message of division. And those who have a real relationship with Christ can feel it.
But, in actuality , after rereading the verses you put forth, they don't make sense given the perceived application.
Who “Consult the mediums and the spiritists who whisper and mutter,”
What are you implying, "Should they consult the dead on behalf of the living?"
What exactly is the message you're trying to relay?
@PeteR, @rockfox and @Cap: I don't think there is any need to have that same argument again here. @PeteR posted a single statement of his opinion, which he deliberately cut short, and most people chose to just overlook as his opinion he's welcome to state occasionally but that they did not have to agree with.
There is absolutely no need to start up this whole debate once again over that. Certainly not this whole thing again:
Just drop it. This thread is for discussing "monogamy of Christ and the Church".
Thank you, @FollowingHim , i'll tread lightly. I'm not interested in acrimonious debate on this thread or any other, but the recent several topics re God, Messiah, polygyny, and monogamy illustrate how central this issue is to theology. Frankly, it is very exciting to wrestle with as it opens new vistas into Scripture.
Returning to the original topic...
Who gave the Torah, the covenant, to Moses on Mt. Sinai?
Most of Christendom would argue 'God.' But, 'no man can see God and live,' yet the elders and Moshe 'saw God, and they ate and drank..' Ex. 24:11-12.. Who did they see?
https://natsab.com/2013/12/04/was-jesus-on-mt-sinai-does-it-matter/
And, https://natsab.com/2015/01/17/was-jesus-on-mt-sinai-part-2
Those two short posts prove Yeshua/Jesus gave the Torah. Ezekiel 23 establishes that God viewed Israel as two brides before Mt. Sinai. Jeremiah 3 proves the house of Israel is divorced and the house of Judah is not. The new covenant, in Jeremiah 31, states the covenant will be renewed with both, however, only the house of Israel is mentioned in v. 33 for that part of the covenanting which seems to exactly parallel Revelation 19:7 and the gunē that is mentioned.
I would argue strongly that Yeshua/Jesus is NOT a monogamist. He is in or to be covenanted with two, the house of Israel and the house of Judah. They compose the Assembly, aka the house of Jacob, aka kol Israel, aka ekklesia, and errantly also known as 'the church.'
It is Christendom's blindness to polygyny that prevents them from understanding this truth that leads to recognizing and embracing Judah. This is classic rivalry between wives most men on this board have experienced if only from a jealous, angry, possessive first.
Isaiah 11:13 in context says Yeshua will fix this.
Men, if your heart desires a peaceful house and loving sister wives who protect and care for each other and unabashedly love you, how much moreso does the Messiah desire for His two brides to cone together and get along? Selah!
Returning to the original topic...
Who gave the Torah, the covenant, to Moses on Mt. Sinai?
Most of Christendom would argue 'God.' But, 'no man can see God and live,' yet the elders and Moshe 'saw God, and they ate and drank..' Ex. 24:11-12.. Who did they see?
https://natsab.com/2013/12/04/was-jesus-on-mt-sinai-does-it-matter/
And, https://natsab.com/2015/01/17/was-jesus-on-mt-sinai-part-2
Those two short posts prove Yeshua/Jesus gave the Torah. Ezekiel 23 establishes that God viewed Israel as two brides before Mt. Sinai. Jeremiah 3 proves the house of Israel is divorced and the house of Judah is not. The new covenant, in Jeremiah 31, states the covenant will be renewed with both, however, only the house of Israel is mentioned in v. 33 for that part of the covenanting which seems to exactly parallel Revelation 19:7 and the gunē that is mentioned.
I would argue strongly that Yeshua/Jesus is NOT a monogamist. He is in or to be covenanted with two, the house of Israel and the house of Judah. They compose the Assembly, aka the house of Jacob, aka kol Israel, aka ekklesia, and errantly also known as 'the church.'
It is Christendom's blindness to polygyny that prevents them from understanding this truth that leads to recognizing and embracing Judah. This is classic rivalry between wives most men on this board have experienced if only from a jealous, angry, possessive first.
Isaiah 11:13 in context says Yeshua will fix this.
Men, if your heart desires a peaceful house and loving sister wives who protect and care for each other and unabashedly love you, how much moreso does the Messiah desire for His two brides to cone together and get along? Selah!
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Revelation 19:7 “Hallelujah!
For our Lord God Almighty reigns.
7Let us rejoice and be glad
and give him glory!
For the wedding of the Lamb has come,
and his bride has made herself ready.
8Fine linen, bright and clean,
was given her to wear.”
(Fine linen stands for the righteous acts of God’s holy people.)
9Then the angel said to me, “Write this: Blessed are those who are invited to the wedding supper of the Lamb!” And he added, “These are the true words of God.”
Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
The parable of the great feast speaks of anyone being invited, not people of a specific nature, except desire to come. It actually says those who should want to come, the nation's that should have a relationship with God don't want to come and so everyone else is invited. They are the bride and they are a singular unit made up of individuals. The bride of Christ and they are no longer Israel or Judah but a new creation.
For our Lord God Almighty reigns.
7Let us rejoice and be glad
and give him glory!
For the wedding of the Lamb has come,
and his bride has made herself ready.
8Fine linen, bright and clean,
was given her to wear.”
(Fine linen stands for the righteous acts of God’s holy people.)
9Then the angel said to me, “Write this: Blessed are those who are invited to the wedding supper of the Lamb!” And he added, “These are the true words of God.”
Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
The parable of the great feast speaks of anyone being invited, not people of a specific nature, except desire to come. It actually says those who should want to come, the nation's that should have a relationship with God don't want to come and so everyone else is invited. They are the bride and they are a singular unit made up of individuals. The bride of Christ and they are no longer Israel or Judah but a new creation.
Is that why Revelation 21:10ff says the name of the holy city is Jerusalem and the gates are named for the twelve tribes of the sons of Israel and the layout mirrors the Tabernacle, and the Jewish apostles are memorialized in the foundation?
Or, is that why 22:12-14 in the KJV says,
12¶And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
13I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
14¶Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
I love you brother, but dismissing the 'OT' creates grave error...
Your use of Galatians 3:28, rips it from the context of Exodus 12:43-49. It is there we find that 'there is neither slave nor free, Jew nor Greek, male nor female.' @Pacman wrote an article on this...
https://natsab.com/2019/09/25/restoring-kol-israel-no-more-male-or-female/
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The Jerusalem you speak of is the New Jerusalem not the Old Jerusalem. Two totally different cities. No one is dismissing the OT but trying to place it in the right context. Your continued reference to the "commandments" does not take into consideration the commandments specified in the NT (yes a real thing) which is a spiritual broading of the OT.
You problem is you seem to not be sure of who the foreigner is by the time revelations has been reached.
And again, I realize your continued efforts to market your and your compadres works but I am not interested.
You make my point. The New Jerusalem has tribal gates. It is the tribes of Israel that get to go in. Those who gain entrance to the New Jerusalem , according to the passage I posted, are those who do the commandments.
To connect with the OP, the evidence is that the Messiah will have two brides, exactly as the prophets foretold in that dastardly volume you avoid at all costs...
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The tribal gates are the foundation of the temple. The believers under the altar are the true children of God.
Still hasn't defined who the bride in Revelations is.
