Meat Mystery behind 1 Corinthians 7:36-37 (virgin, daughter, betrothed or what?)

[Mojo]

In reality, very few of us abandoned whatever assemblies that we were attending .
We were given the left foot of fellowship because of what we believe.

I think this point is very important. It’s why many are working at making this doctrine more accepted. If more congregations accept this doctrine, it’ll allow more choices for worship.

 

[PilgrimJustPassingThru]

The word "Church" as I recall is a very poor translation of Ekklesia. The real ekklesia are the "called out ones.' We are not in harmony with the part of the body that basically developed an autoimmune disease and turned against the parts of the body that were polygynous or polygyny supporters. We are not the ones that have fulfilled the prophesy in 1 Tim 4:1 which identifies a departure some would make from the faith.

We are not antisocial. Most here are not. We enjoy meeting and visiting with many believers. It is the churchgoers that reject us.
Christians that "go to church" basically put all people in one of three catagories.
1. Fellow saved by grace members of the body. This is where fellowship happens.
2. People to evangelize to the "right" way of thinking. These treat you like a project....and it isn't true fellowship if their goal in associating is to change your beliefs.
3. The heretic catagory. This is where they put you after their attempts to evangelize you to their theology didn't work.

We have had the local elders and probably the pastor too (I doubt he ever corrected the "elder" that warned him away from us) warn many people who have come into this community away from our family.....and this without any attempt to confront my husband about his alleged "sin" or show him from the scriptures where he is wrong. One older man talked to him once, could not explain the biblical conflicts with his view, and never came back. It's been 4 years.

Why would we go where others will try to teach our children contrary to our beliefs?

The part of the body you call visible? That is kind of like claiming that those called Jews are who represents the Israel of God. He says it is the seed of Jacob/Israel who will not cease from being a nation before Him forever. HE KNOWS HIS OWN! The gathering of the people is to Christ...according to Jacob/Israel's prophesy over Judah.
Jesus also said wherever 2 or 3 are gathered together in His name He is there in their midst.

One final thing. This ministry is not a church. It is international! There is no way that it can "police" people in all states and in other countries too. This website does allow us to meet other believers who will not break fellowship over polygyny. Some will be more alligned with other aspects of faith, some less so. I have always enjoyed the off topic discussions in this cross denominational group of believers.

Sister, it is absolutely true fellowship if a goal includes iron sharpening and changing of beliefs. We’re commanded to reprove others, whether it’s in the OT or NT. Check out Leviticus 19:1-2, 9-18; Matthew 5:38-48 and also consider what it must’ve been like getting a letter from Paul, not only being judged by a “churchgoer” but sometimes by one who wasn’t even physically present per 1 Corinthians 5:3.

While I do understand the concerns of those churchgoers you encountered, along with your concerns about how your children might be educated, family integrated worship where your children stay with you during a corporate worship service is always the best and most biblical format.

I appreciate your insights and your balanced response. At the same time I hope you pray about texts like 1 Corinthians 12 and others. You were given gifts to edify the Body of Christ. Even heathens and publicans love their own.

Forsaking the assembling of saints is a serious thing. We’re forbidden from doing it. Anything that is not of Christ is anti-Christ. Just as Christ loves to be with His people, His people love to be with His people. Find more of them and have fellowship with them, find elders you can submit to.

Twice in the Book of Hebrews (Hebrews 13:7, 17) you see the author command them to obey those that have the rule over them, spaced just a few verses apart towards the end of that Epistle. Pray about why that might be stated not once but twice, and in a letter specifically to Hebrews, Sister.

The Messianic Jews getting that letter read to them weren’t sitting in Synagogues but Churches, Churches filled with riotous Gentiles who didn’t understand their ways but nevertheless professed Christ.

Grace and peace.

 

[Mojo]

family integrated worship where your children stay with you during a corporate worship service is always the best and most biblical format.

Wholly agree. The modern church segregated their future.

Find more of them and have fellowship with them, find elders you can submit to.

Here’s the quandary. If @Joleneakamama went to a church where the elders called out her husband in sin for his second wife and demand that he change his house arrangement, or risk church discipline or excommunication, where does the accountability lie? Is it her head, or these elders? If they are forcibly excommunicated for something they don’t deem sinful, who gets the last word? Is she accountable to the elders or her husband?

The Messianic Jews getting that letter read to them weren’t sitting in Synagogues but Churches, Churches filled with riotous Gentiles who didn’t understand their ways but nevertheless professed Christ.

Are you sure about that?
“With one accord they continued to meet daily in the TEMPLE courts and to break bread from house to house, sharing their meals with gladness and sincerity of heart."

Those darn early Christians went to the temple where sacrifices were offered and “dead works of the Law” were practiced. Then went to houses.


Overall, a very thoughtful post. Thank you.

 

[frederick]

Missionaries plant churches.

Followers of Jesus Christ will preach the gospel; sinners hear, believe, and are saved by Almighty God - and He builds His church. Looking at the spectacle of popular US churches on YouTube one can see they've been planted by missionaries so they have "their" churches. Jesus said, “Every plant which My heavenly Father has not planted will be uprooted" (Matt. 15:13).

 

[Joleneakamama]

Sister, it is absolutely true fellowship if a goal includes iron sharpening and changing of beliefs. We’re commanded to reprove others, whether it’s in the OT or NT.

Timothy wrote that " All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness"
Jesus praised the faith of the centurion who was UNDER authority. The problem I see is that most pastors and elders down here are not themselves submitted to the word. They were never authorized to impose their own ideas on others, yet without scripture condemning my husband they still speak against him....only behind his back. We are over 20 miles away from any other church, and the "Torah observant fellowship" some of our extended family go to has already refused to let a founding member attend because he believes in polygyny being lawful. The only "church' I know of that might let us attend welcomes gays. Not the sort of place I care to take my children....and not edifying. Patriarchal theocracy is what was authorized by God for human government. Anything putting a man IN authority (respecting the man) rather than being a minister of God's authority creates too much potential for abuse. God put men in authority over their wives, children, and servants. They have a duty to God to ensure that justice is done in their communities.

Find more of them and have fellowship with them, find elders you can submit to.

1 Cor. 11:3. But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

Then in Ephesians 5 we find this verse spoken to men...

21Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.

And then this specifically to wives.

22Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. 23For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. 24Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.

Anyone putting elders over men or women is inserting something into this described "chain of command" or revealed authority structure. That is precisely how cult leaders operate and influence women away from their husbands.
Sarah is lifted up as the example for believing women to emulate. She had no "elders" or women's ministry, or prayer groups....OR EVEN A BIBLE TO READ!
She called Abraham lord.

Abraham also had no elders to submit to....or "iron sharpening iron" fellowship with other men.

 

[The Revolting Man]

I’m wondering if Brother Kojent wasn’t a little bit of an Eastern Orthodox infiltrator. He used the phrase “visible church” a few too many times and referred to missionaries needing to be ordained and sent. He did everything but accuse us of being schismatics.

He can’t be Roman because they can’t admit that polygyny is lawful, even if they did as late as the 800’s, so he is likely to be some form of orthodox. He changed his name and allegedly left so we’ll likely never know but I wouldn’t be surprised.

 

[Joleneakamama]

I’m wondering if Brother Kojent wasn’t a little bit of an Eastern Orthodox infiltrator. He used the phrase “visible church” a few too many times and referred to missionaries needing to be ordained and sent. He did everything but accuse us of being schismatics.

He can’t be Roman because they can’t admit that polygyny is lawful, even if they did as late as the 800’s, so he is likely to be some form of orthodox. He changed his name and allegedly left so we’ll likely never know but I wouldn’t be surprised.

I was mostly surprised by his allegedly only wanting to affirm things the Bible speaks positively about, snd then suggesting that I (a woman) find elders to submit to. Wives are under their husbands. Period! He also seemed to miss that being in a position of influence or authority never made any man immune to sin. So all need to be held to the truth by others....or called to repentance if someone sees they are in sin.

I felt like telling him too that his influence here might go up if he could first get his own mind fully on one side. "Is polygyny lawful? Maybe." Sounds too double minded for the Biblical evidence. He seemed to give too much weight to other men of other early denominations.....again assuming they are right, when leadership never made error impossible. We have a friend who now attends Eastern Orthodox. It's too close to catholic for our liking. *shrugs*

People that want to sharpen iron....but think they already have all the answers ...don't really fit in. Those preaching accountability usually feel themselves qualified for others to answer to.....they are not actually thinking about subjecting themselves to another man's (imagined) authority.

 

[Mojo]

I’m wondering if Brother Kojent wasn’t a little bit of an Eastern Orthodox infiltrator. He used the phrase “visible church” a few too many times and referred to missionaries needing to be ordained and sent. He did everything but accuse us of being schismatics.

He can’t be Roman because they can’t admit that polygyny is lawful, even if they did as late as the 800’s, so he is likely to be some form of orthodox. He changed his name and allegedly left so we’ll likely never know but I wouldn’t be surprised.

Claimed to be a Baptist and came in like a lamb. But out of nowhere turned into a rabid wolf. Almost like someone took over his account. The emotion seemed almost feminine.

Could easily have been a fraud posing as a male. Talking about how men are only interested in wetting their willies. Do men use that term?

In one post he talked about taking care of a newborn. Either he’s overly stressed with young children keeping him up or a hysterical post partum woman took over his account.

Leaving and citing his example of PeteR, when PeteR is a Torah guy! Kojent supposedly didnt like Torah folks!

I call fraud.

 

[Mojo]

People that want to sharpen iron....but think they already have all the answers ...don't really fit in.

That was what it boiled down to.

 

[MemeFan]

I was mostly surprised by his allegedly only wanting to affirm things the Bible speaks positively about, snd then suggesting that I (a woman) find elders to submit to.

He is obsessed with control because he is control freak.

Wives are under their husbands. Period! He also seemed to miss that being in a position of influence or authority never made any man immune to sin. So all need to be held to the truth by others....or called to repentance if someone sees they are in sin.

Bible says something submission, so any practicalities can be disregarded.

Also, realistically speaking local believers are under influence of local culture.

I believe that in West, elders wouldn't dare to "meddle" into regulars life unless asked for help, regular being social case or regular doing "big sin".

In other cultures more OK with hierarchy and communal living, I could easily see elders "meddling" more. He could be from such culture.

I felt like telling him too that his influence here might go up if he could first get his own mind fully on one side. "Is polygyny lawful? Maybe." Sounds too double minded for the Biblical evidence.

There is no direct commands "do polygyny" in Bible. He just prefers direct command over indirect. He is being consistent here.

Polygyny is indirectly commanded in case of virgin seduction and levirate.

He seemed to give too much weight to other men of other early denominations.....again assuming they are right, when leadership never made error impossible. We have a friend who now attends Eastern Orthodox. It's too close to catholic for our liking. *shrugs*

People that want to sharpen iron....but think they already have all the answers ...don't really fit in. Those preaching accountability usually feel themselves qualified for others to answer to.....they are not actually thinking about subjecting themselves to another man's (imagined) authority.

He never had frame of being curious, asking did I get it right. He didn't even had my frame of being right because listed evidence says x.

He was always teacher and boss. He was right and you are little bitch risking Hell.

Claimed to be a Baptist and came in like a lamb. But out of nowhere turned into a rabid wolf. Almost like someone took over his account. The emotion seemed almost feminine.

He was always wolf. He just started with mask of very warm person who can be trusted. It was our questioning which forced him to remove his mask.

Don't trust person constantly telling you want to do, unless you have asked for instructions. Same with people obsessed with saving you from some evil.

Could easily have been a fraud posing as a male. Talking about how men are only interested in wetting their willies. Do men use that term?

This is standard accusation of polygyny dislike group. They can't imagine any other reason except sex for wanting another wife.

I call fraud.

Worse. Fraud is just fake. He is way more dangerous.