Welcome and Shalom brother.
Blessings to you and your family.
Blessings to you and your family.
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New here but not new
- Thread starter Sons of Issachar
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Welcome.
I listened to a sermon on polygyny by pastor Fox sometime back. As I recall, he said that the Bible permits it. He also said that things didn't go very well for the people he has known that practiced it. He also didn't really think it was necessary for people to practice it in our society.
I would disagree with that last point. It may not be necessary for any particular man to have more than one wife, but the fact that God permits it in His Law means that we should permit it under the laws.of man and in the fellowship of the Church.
Still, it is fair to say that pastor Fox is vastly more friendly towards poly than almost anyone (outside of us here).
Pastor Fox is also pretty darn solid on homesteading and prepping. I greatly appreciate him.
I listened to a sermon on polygyny by pastor Fox sometime back. As I recall, he said that the Bible permits it. He also said that things didn't go very well for the people he has known that practiced it. He also didn't really think it was necessary for people to practice it in our society.
I would disagree with that last point. It may not be necessary for any particular man to have more than one wife, but the fact that God permits it in His Law means that we should permit it under the laws.of man and in the fellowship of the Church.
Still, it is fair to say that pastor Fox is vastly more friendly towards poly than almost anyone (outside of us here).
Pastor Fox is also pretty darn solid on homesteading and prepping. I greatly appreciate him.
I think it is crucial that polygyny be permitted and recognized as legitimate. That is how God deals with it, and man must bow the knee before his Maker.But it is absolutely crucial if all women are to be under proper headship.
Js
I think that we are saying the same thing, but maybe I misunderstand.
Agreed, but I do have a question for you. You mentioned that polygyny is necessary for all women to be under proper headship.
Is it necessary for all women to be under proper headship? Say an older woman is widowed and doesn't desire to remarry. It seems like that is her choice, and that her children and grandchildren have a general duty to see to her protection and care. This woman might live in her son's household. She would therefore be under his protection and provision (and therefore authority to some extent) but still the son wouldn't be her head like her husband was, or her father was during her youth.
Just wondering. Thanks
Yes, except for the older widows if they have options like you speak of.
I am not speaking with the voice of authority on this issue, but I suspect that it is a recipe for serious problems if a widow expects to live under the provision and protection of her son but doesn't respect him as the head of her household. The son won't be her intimacy headship, and I respect any widow's choice to avoid sexual intimacy for the rest of her life, but a husband's headship over his women is not in any way a matter of whether or not he's laying pipe with her (I believe I'm not speaking out of turn here by mentioning that there are men among us here on Biblical Families who have women under their headship with whom they've never engaged -- and may never engage -- in sexual activity). According to Torah, even wives are not expected to engage in sexual congress with their husbands once they have produced an heir (Paul's two-sided due-benevolence admonition was directed to a decidedly Greek monogamy-only culture), but those wives who set aside the practice of uncovering their nakedness with their husbands did not also then have the option of eschewing his headship(insert my periodic encouragement to read and re-read William Luck on these matters). So I see no precedent in Scripture that would bless an approach in which a widow could expect her son to provide her with protection and provision without accepting his headship. Torah addresses widowhood because the assumption is that a widow cannot live independently, and I would assert that this wisdom reflects awareness that a woman's ability to live independently isn't just a matter of financial or self-protection independence. Women by emotional nature are incapable of heading themselves.
Addendum: I meant to add somewhere above that I also suspect that, for most widows who prefer to entirely avoid sexual intimacy once their husbands have passed away, they only do so due to self-defeating social programming by the culture and the milieu of widow brigades in which they find themselves once widowed. Widow circles are well known for the pressure they place on each other to remain chaste, and thus getting approval from one's fellow widows is inappropriately elevated over meeting their own individual needs for contact, companionship and even sexual pleasure. It is almost a cliche that such groups of widowed women will pretend that their competitions to provide fresh-baked meals to new widowers aren't a matter of wanting to get a new husband. Along with this, many adult children of widows fail to acknowledge how the manner in which they treat their widowed mothers has more to do with their own discomfort about watching their mothers be intimate with someone other than their fathers than it does with their offers for opportunities to provide protection and provision in a way that effectively prevents their mothers from gaining such companionship. In other words, sometimes it isn't the widows who are the ones preferring the chastity.
LOL how did my introduction thread turn into a debate?
It is quite normal here LOL
LOL! Welcome to Biblical Families
. The men here are the kings of not-keeping-on-topic. Makes for interesting reading and thinking though 
.I would agree that a widow living under the provision and protection of her son is certainly under his headship or authority in a very real sense. His house, his food, then he is the head of the household period. He sets the rules.
It's just that the commandment to honor father and mother also still applies. In some sense, the man will always be in debt to his mother, who gave him life. He owes honor to her, and that is a different type of honor than the honor the wife deserves.
I agree. Headship and Honor both apply. I was only responding to your question about whether widows needed to be under headship.