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Question about egg donation and surrogate.

The Revolting Man said:
I struggle with idea that the book written by our omnipotent and omniscient Creator would have blind spots.
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Certainly no blind spots, I agree with you. But as you said, "there is no direct scriptural prohibition". Nor direct endorsement - direct being the key word. Scripture will address it, but in the case of something like this that was not part of the culture in which it was written, will do so indirectly through the establishment of relevant principles. These we must then apply to the situation ourselves to determine if it is prohibited, endorsed or not considered important enough for either. My post then went on to explore how scripture may address this.
 
MichaelZ said:
My (second) wife is getting old so she has no chance to have a baby for two of us without miracle
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Remember YaHWeH is the one who opens and closes the womb.

Genesis 30:22 KJV And God remembered Rachel, and God hearkened to her, and opened her womb.

If Yah wants her to have a child He will OPEN her womb.

MichaelZ said:
In my opinion, egg donation is a grey area
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It is man playing God.

Even Jacob knew Yah withheld from Rachel.
Genesis 30:2 KJV And Jacob's anger was kindled against Rachel: and he said, Am I in God's stead, who hath withheld from thee the fruit of the womb?

MichaelZ said:
Does anyone concern about having a baby from an egg of a woman who's not a wife?
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First off you DON'T know the spiritual well-being of that woman.

Matthew 15:22 KJV And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou Son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.

Mary had seven at one point.
Mark 16:9 KJV Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.

I know Yahshua can protect us if we...
Ephesians 6:11 KJV Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

Ephesians 6:12 KJV For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

So let's make sure we don't invite them unawares.

Let me share this with you when our youngest was born my wife ruptured her uterus, she blew out the left side, they fixed her and all and told us to wait 3 years before we had any more children, so we decided to get her tubes clamped since we were young and active.

Fast forward 5 years, we decided we would like to have more children, 5 wasn't enough LOL we saved up money to get a reversal something happened took the money, we saved up money again something happened took the money, and now we're on round 3, saved up money and you guessed it, something happened again and took the money, so we figured YaHWeH knows her body a lot better than we do and we took that as a sign, no more children.

Now let's fast-forward 24 years since his birth which brings us to 6/23/2022 Paula has been having some issues and so finally we went to a naturopathic doctor and had some blood work done and ultrasounds done, yes her uterus is a mess she has heterogeneous and myomatous. Now we know why Yahweh took the money. Remember Yahweh is in control He knows our bodies a lot better than we do. Why does He allow the majority of women to have children and then a small handful unable to? I don't know but He does, and let's not question Him, I know it's easier said than done but we must trust Him.

Proverbs 3:5-6 KJV Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. (6) In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.
 
IMHO.... when the sperm and egg unite to become a single entity, THAT'S when the "two become one flesh" regardless of organs touching in the typical way. "What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh." 1 Cor 6:16. The whore and the john are not in agreement except for price. It is entirely possible for two to become one flesh and yet not be married or even intend to be so. The becoming has nothing to do with agreement in spirit or attitude or whatever explaining away the modern Christianity has performed to be more like the world. Making babies can be separate from marital union but shouldn't be. As well, surro and egg donation or sharing should be personal and thus require marriage.
 
Maddog said:
IMHO.... when the sperm and egg unite to become a single entity, THAT'S when the "two become one flesh" regardless of organs touching in the typical way. "What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh." 1 Cor 6:16. The whore and the john are not in agreement except for price. It is entirely possible for two to become one flesh and yet not be married or even intend to be so. The becoming has nothing to do with agreement in spirit or attitude or whatever explaining away the modern Christianity has performed to be more like the world. Making babies can be separate from marital union but shouldn't be. As well, surro and egg donation or sharing should be personal and thus require marriage.
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The problem with that theory is that a barren woman could never become one with her husband. Or an impotent husband with his wife.

I see the sperm and egg process as being a secondary fulfillment.
 
One flesh means creating a “beast with two backs”. Joining together. Tab A into slot B.
 
The more I ponder this situation of using medical intervention to overcome barrenness, the more I'm wondering if we looking for an answer outside of what God has already made provision for with the many single women among the Christian community capable of bearing children(?) Why are we debating whether medical intervention (with potentially excess fertilised eggs, etc.) is right or wrong when we already know it is right to follow the biblical examples and add childbearing wives? Are we just too scared of the backlash if we do what is the biblically righteous?
 
Embryo adoption is a thing too. People who have done IVF and have "extra fertilized eggs" can either destroy, donate to science or revoke their parental rights and allow someone to adopt the eggs/babies. Is your wife/wives uterus intact and healthy?

I agree with God can make things happen but I also believe that He gave us medicine and tools to use and that those babies sitting on ice are known and loved by Him and still need parents. Embryo adoption is all over the place right now with laws and adoptions, some people want open adoption some don't, some adoption sites have mandatory ages like under 55 and bmi requirements some don't.

Last time I researched it (about a year ago) cost was still under $15,000 for everything (medicine to help prep the womb of the carrier, 1-3 eggs thawed depending on the place and what you desire, genetic testing if wanted, etc). It may have changed in cost but is still way more affordable, also the carrier will hopefully have a chance to carry the child and know what happens during the pregnancy rather than hoping the surrogate will follow your desires and then she will have a higher chance of being able to nurse as well.
 
Bria said:
Embryo adoption is a thing too. People who have done IVF and have "extra fertilized eggs" can either destroy, donate to science or revoke their parental rights and allow someone to adopt the eggs/babies. Is your wife/wives uterus intact and healthy?

I agree with God can make things happen but I also believe that He gave us medicine and tools to use and that those babies sitting on ice are known and loved by Him and still need parents. Embryo adoption is all over the place right now with laws and adoptions, some people want open adoption some don't, some adoption sites have mandatory ages like under 55 and bmi requirements some don't.

Last time I researched it (about a year ago) cost was still under $15,000 for everything (medicine to help prep the womb of the carrier, 1-3 eggs thawed depending on the place and what you desire, genetic testing if wanted, etc). It may have changed in cost but is still way more affordable, also the carrier will hopefully have a chance to carry the child and know what happens during the pregnancy rather than hoping the surrogate will follow your desires and then she will have a higher chance of being able to nurse as well.
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That is a very good point @Bria.

@MichaelZ, have you considered this option, if your wife is able to carry a child just not ovulate? It neatly sidesteps many of the moral & theological objections to IVF, because rightly or wrongly these babies have been created and now exist. If it's not right to let them die, it must be right to give them a chance to live. And it might be a cheaper option than IVF also.
 
NickF said:
Yeah, from a scientific standpoint I'd have a serious problem with it. We don't use any chemical or hormonal birth control and never have because of the deaths it causes. If you want children, get another wife who can get pregnant, or adopt. That's my .02
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Also birth control is dangerous for user, my boss's wife ended up with a blood clot in the brain causing a horrific seizure. To this day she has trouble with speech and one side's movement.
 
MichaelZ said:
I'm sorry the question doesn't sound related to polygamy, but it's my recent confusion.

I fully supports polygamy and I practiced it. Although it doesn't go easily but I trust God's help.

My (second) wife is getting old so she has no chance to have a baby for two of us without miracle. Recently I'm thinking about egg donation and surrogate. My wife and my mom strongly oppose to it. I have searched this topic and found that most opposing opinions are based on monogamy, like egg donation introduces 3rd party into the one flesh.

In my opinion, egg donation is a grey area of the Christian ethic, in which a man gets a baby from a donor woman other than his wives, without having sex with the donor. I have no problem of surrogate mom. I will try not to abandon any of the live embryos.

I want to hear your opinion: can a Christian accept egg donation and have baby from a surrogate mom?

Thanks.
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This is an odd suggestion to some but would your first wife be willing to be a surrogate mother for your second wife? Personally if I were fertile enough, I'd have no issue doing this for my sister wife and husband. Yet at the same time I can understand from a woman's perspective how difficult it could be.
 
LovesDogs said:
This is an odd suggestion to some but would your first wife be willing to be a surrogate mother for your second wife? Personally if I were fertile enough, I'd have no issue doing this for my sister wife and husband. Yet at the same time I can understand from a woman's perspective how difficult it could be.
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What a great potential bonding experience suggestion!
 
James Pease said:
Also birth control is dangerous for user, my boss's wife ended up with a blood clot in the brain causing a horrific seizure. To this day she has trouble with speech and one side's movement.
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That usually happens when someone has pre-existing health issues and/or a family history that could increase the chance of blood clots.

There is like a 10 in 10,000 chance of getting a blood clot due to birth control or pregnancy itself. Pregnancy can cause many women issues as well. For example my sister had a blood clot each time she was pregnant.

Most Doctor's will not even prescribe birth control to women who are high risk to begin with. A good Doctor will research and suggest brands that have little to no chance of increasing blood clots- while finding a solution based on what the woman is attempting to take the birth control for. (Pregnancy prevention, hormonal issues, health issues etc.)

Some of the side effects and symptoms can be minimal if you're taking the correct type, at the right time of the day while taking care of yourself as well.

Also it takes your body months to adjust to birth control. Many of the initial symptoms/side effects can go away after that.

If women are interested in birth control. For their safety they need to research their own family history and make sure their Doctor is aware of it. As well as getting physical checkups of their own first.

Unfortunately with little access to proper healthcare in our country, many women are forced to go to Doctors and even nurses who don't mind writing prescriptions like they're candy. Thus causing further complications for women when it comes to birth control.
 
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