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Revitalizing the demoralized

Mark C said:
Arguably because the Whore Church got rid of Yahushu Himself, almost 17 centuries ago.
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The fundamental problem here @Mark C is that you are coming from an entirely different perspective to @Bartato. He is looking at Christendom as a great achievement of the Kingdom, for us to preserve and rebuild if not grow. While you are seeing Christendom as entirely apostate and something to be entirely rejected and thrown away. He is calling for us to be inspired by our forefathers, you are calling for us to reject them as heretics. If I have misunderstood you, do explain what you really think about the Christian heritage of the West.

@Earth_is-, take this as your last warning, more pushing of dietary laws in this thread and I'll just start deleting posts on sight.
 
Earth_is- said:
I can’t attest to what kind of animals were around pre-Noah’s flood - but at the time of the flood - there was a distinction between clean and un clean animals:

Genesis 7:6-8
.... 8 With them were all the various kinds of animals— those approved for eating and for sacrifice and those that were not—along with all the birds and the small animals that scurry along the ground.
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You need to be more careful when quoting the Bible. Part of the passage you highlighted isn't in the Biblical text. It was just an explanatory note added to the loose paraphrase you are using (the NLT) by the "translators".

You really shouldn't argue doctrine using such a loose paraphrase of the Bible.

Let's look at the same verse in a few more reputable translations.

"Of clean beasts, and of beasts that are not clean, and of fowls, and of every thing that creepeth upon the earth" (Genesis 7:8, KJV)

"Of clean animals and animals that are not clean and birds and everything that creeps on the ground," (NASB 95)

"Of clean animals, and of animals that are not clean, and of birds, and of everything that creeps on the ground" (ESV)

"from the clean beast, and from the beast that [is] not clean, and from the bird, and of everything that is creeping on the ground," (LSV)

The text you highlighted, the text you are building your case on, is not in the Bible.

What we have in Genesis 7:8 are clean and unclean animals. This passage comes before Genesis 9:3.

No matter how much you, Mark, and Michael wish otherwise, both categories are undeniably included in the larger category ""Every moving thing that is alive", and that is explicitly what YAHWEH authorized Noah to eat.

"Every moving thing that is alive shall be food for you" (Genesis 9:3 NASB)

Are pigs alive? Yes
Do they move? Yes
They are included in Genesis 9:3.

You cannot escape the fact that Adam, Noah, and Moses received different dietary instructions from God.

I'll shut up about our Torah observance debate now. That's not what we are trying to discuss here.
 
Bartato said:
"Every moving thing that is alive shall be food for you" (Genesis 9:3 NASB)

Are pigs alive? Yes
Do they move? Yes
They are included in Genesis 9:3.

You cannot escape the fact that Adam, Noah, and Moses received different dietary instructions from God.

I'll shut up about our Torah observance debate now. That's not what we are trying to discuss here.
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Not debating. Just correcting a mis translation. Look up the Hebrew word for “thing.” It’s Mis-translated. Here:

IMG_3357.jpeg
 
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FollowingHim said:
The fundamental problem here @Mark C is that you are coming from an entirely different perspective to @Bartato. He is looking at Christendom as a great achievement of the Kingdom, for us to preserve and rebuild if not grow. While you are seeing Christendom as entirely apostate and something to be entirely rejected and thrown away. He is calling for us to be inspired by our forefathers, you are calling for us to reject them as heretics. If I have misunderstood you, do explain what you really think about the Christian heritage of the West.

@Earth_is-, take this as your last warning, more pushing of dietary laws in this thread and I'll just start deleting posts on sight.
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I do believe that there is a great deal that is good about our Christian heritage in the West. There are obviously problems as well, and we must always push towards greater Biblical fidelity. Sin must be repented of.

Nonetheless, if I compare the 18th century Christian influenced cultures of Britain and America of The First Great Awakening, (with Wesley, Whitfield, and Edwards) with other civilizations in history, these societies are vastly preferable.

Look into the history of demon worship and human sacrifice in pre Columbian America. It is shocking. The Roman Catholic church, as messed up as it is was a huge improvement.

Look at the abomination of Hinduism. India is far better off having been influenced by British Christianity.

Look at the untold misery and destruction brought upon the world by Islam. (Raymond Ibrahim's books really are good on this topic)

The atheist worldviews of Marxism, and Fascism led to the suffering and death of millions in the last century.

Atheistic globohomo is presently wrecking the world. The imperfect Christendom that my grandfathers grew up with a century ago was a whole lot better.
 
FollowingHim said:
The fundamental problem here @Mark C is that you are coming from an entirely different perspective to @Bartato. He is looking at Christendom as a great achievement of the Kingdom, for us to preserve and rebuild if not grow. While you are seeing Christendom as entirely apostate and something to be entirely rejected and thrown away. He is calling for us to be inspired by our forefathers, you are calling for us to reject them as heretics. If I have misunderstood you, do explain what you really think about the Christian heritage of the West.
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We read in the chronicles of Israel - how some kings were faithful towards the Most High like their father King David was - others were in the middle (not evil - but not 100% faithful either), and other kings were totally wicked.

The breakaway from the roman catholic church didn’t result in being 100% faithful to the Most High as King David was - but it wasn’t wicked either.

However, it seems to me that each generation has gone further and further away from the heart and faith of King David, and instead they’re marching towards the ways of the world. Instead of being set apart and Holy - as the Apostle Peter instructed when he quoted the Torah - Christianity wants to blend in and make everyone happy. Instead of seeking honor and praise from the Most High - they seek praise from men.

And we can clearly start to see the curses for that dis obedience begin to play out.
 
Earth_is- said:
Instead of being set apart and Holy - as the Apostle Peter instructed when he quoted the Torah - Christianity wants to blend in and make everyone happy.
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Perhaps you paint too wide a swathe with your use of the term "Christianity"? Christians are true disciples of Jesus Christ (cf. Acts 11:26), but there are false teachers among us just as there were false prophets among the Israelites (cf. 2 Peter 2:1). Those who are "false teachers" propagate error today in the same way was the false prophets propagated error among the Israelites. Notice that Peter says, And many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom the way of truth will be blasphemed (2 Peter 2:2). A lot of people get led away by the erroneous teachings of the false teachers.

Our duty isn't to shout condemnation to those who may have been influenced by the error of the false teachers, but rather to herald forth the truth that they might be delivered from error. Paul wrote telling Timothy, Take heed to yourself and to the doctrine. Continue in them, for in doing this you will save both yourself and those who hear you (1 Tim. 4:16). To save in what sense? To rescue, deliver from error.

Gentlemen, the petty squabbling isn't helping anyone, and I suspect those who come to the forum are not always finding the help and encouragement they need. It is written, Walk in wisdom toward those who are outside, redeeming the time. Let your speech always be with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer each one (Col. 4:5-6). Shalom
 
Demoralized people don't have hope for the future. In their despair they fail to reproduce, or fail to properly raise children if they do manage reproduce.

Rather than glorifying God by working hard, and building a just, productive, and honorable society, they live lives of self indulgence.

It is very understandable. Things are really tough out there. It is very difficult for young men to find quality women to marry. Likewise, quality young men are also rare

Property prices have shot up so high that gomes have become unaffordable for many. A coworker of mine just bought a house for $385,000. He is fortunate to have a high enough income to be able. Nonetheless, it will be difficult for him to afford this property.

His house is remarkably similar to mine, and I bought my house fifteen years ago for $135,000. During that last fifteen years, incomes may have increased 40-50%, but housing prices have almost tripled. That means the real functional cost has almost doubled. Throw in thr higher inflation fueled interest rates, and it is worse.

The cost of housing in the area where we live has gotten far less affordable, and yet I know many areas are far far worse. I think the median home in our area goes for around $45O,000. If I drive over the mountains to Seattle, the incomes might be 10-20% higher but the homes in King County have a median price of over $800,000. If you drive a couple hours north of Seattle to Vancouver, British Columbia, the median detached house is around $2,000,000 while the income is about the same. It's insane!

That makes things very difficult for young families. Both the man and the woman have to work full time and they barely scrape by. They don't want, or feel able to have children.

Since they don't have enough children, our governments bring in more and more foreigners to replace them. The massive influx of foreigners continues to push the price of properties higher and higher.

Somehow, we have a societal death spiral.

Nonetheless, I believe that God is ultimately in control. There are opportunities to achieve greatness, but we cannot just keep living the same way we have for the last eighty years. That path leads to destruction. We have to look to Christ, and be encouraged to be ambitious.
 
We who believe on Christ need to remember that our Father in Heaven is Mighty! Our societies are crumbling, but our Father delights to rescue those who call on, and trust in Him. He is more than able to provide for the needs of His people. The servants of Christ have gone through hard times before, and our Lord always makes a way for them. Those who trust in the Lord will never be disappointed in the end.
 
FollowingHim said:
...While you are seeing Christendom as entirely apostate and something to be entirely rejected and thrown away. He is calling for us to be inspired by our forefathers, you are calling for us to reject them as heretics. If I have misunderstood you, do explain what you really think about the Christian heritage of the West.
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I have never, NEVER, EVER, said "entirely!!!! (and you do it twice in ONE sentence! Do you ignore what "a little leaven" does? Or why even a bit of rat poison in otherwise good food is an issue?)

And I have not said 'thrown away,' in that sense, but "come out of her," because He does!

And - right here, and within the last week on multiple other threads - I have QUOTED and referenced our forefathers, and the Bill of Rights, and particularly the Declaration of Independence, which ALSO has the theme of "come out of her" - because that's what they did!!! By declaring the grievances, the principles, and announcing that they stood on His "self-evident Truths."

Good grief.


It's not just that you misunderstand and mischaracterize, Samuel -- sometimes I think you just don't READ.

And I emphasize discernment. And "rightly dividing the Word." Is that discussion allowed?

And on this I agree 100%. And it is why I believe this discussion is vital:
Bartato said:
Somehow, we have a societal death spiral.
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Can we address the real issues? From Scripture? Marriage is just one of them. And, imagine this, as much as I, and Bartato, and doubtless others, respect, admire, and are thankful for our Founding Fathers, and their courage...they didn't get it ALL right. Like marriage, for just one example.
 
Here's just one example of what I mean:

Bartato said:
...hings are really tough out there. It is very difficult for young men to find quality women to marry. Likewise, quality young men are also rare...
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Myself and others were advising people, in March of 2020, NOT to take the Poison Poke when they rolled it out. (It was obvious we were dealing with a bioweapon even BEFORE 'Warp Speed.')

It is now difficult for ANYONE to find ANYONE, to marry, that hasn't been genetically demolished by mRNA. Sadly, most will NEVER reproduce, and that data won't even be obvious for a couple more years, at least on CNN. But a population death spiral has perhaps also already been achieved.

And those whose immune systems, and neurological function, has already also been destroyed may not live long enough to worry about things like buying a house, or even surviving a dollar collapse.

Will people fall for the H5N1 Fauci-Flu 2.0 that seems to be the next "be afraid, be VERY afraid," plandemic?
 
Mark C said:
Here's just one example of what I mean:


Myself and others were advising people, in March of 2020, NOT to take the Poison Poke when they rolled it out. (It was obvious we were dealing with a bioweapon even BEFORE 'Warp Speed.')

It is now difficult for ANYONE to find ANYONE, to marry, that hasn't been genetically demolished by mRNA. Sadly, most will NEVER reproduce, and that data won't even be obvious for a couple more years, at least on CNN. But a population death spiral has perhaps also already been achieved.

And those whose immune systems, and neurological function, has already also been destroyed may not live long enough to worry about things like buying a house, or even surviving a dollar collapse.

Will people fall for the H5N1 Fauci-Flu 2.0 that seems to be the next "be afraid, be VERY afraid," plandemic?
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Nearly all of us here told people not to take the stupid poison jab! The fact that so many people believed the lies (or were bullied into taking it) is one of a thousand examples of the fact that our societies are demoralized.

The question before us is how we help get people out of that death loop.
 
Bartato said:
Nearly all of us here told people not to take the stupid poison jab! The fact that so many people believed the lies (or were bullied into taking it) is one of a thousand examples of the fact that our societies are demoralized.

The question before us is how we help get people out of that death loop.
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The answer remains in Scripture. And it's the one the Founding Fathers adopted:

"Come out of her, My people..." They did it right.

The fact that MANY people here saw through at least part of it is likewise a big part of that same answer.

We didn't accept the lies about marriage. Some of us didn't accept the lies from the Great God 'Medicine' (or 'Science,' as twisted, and the High Priest Fauci.)

What I have suggested for a very long time is that if we see some lies, and Yahushua warned us to "be not deceived," why not use that same discernment when it comes to the rest of those lies?

People are 'demoralized,' in many cases, when they start to realized just how PERVASIVE they really are!

And check out Jeremiah 16:19, and 17:5-10. This is not really new, it's just far BIGGER. I would even suggest a Deception of "Biblical Proportions."

The problem is what Orwell called "doublethink," and some refer to as "cognitive dissonance." But the solution is to "search out the Truth for yourselves." And we should be able to help, here.
 
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