Secular arguments against poly

[paterfamilias]

That's interesting to consider but it may stem more from your culture there and first-world country morality(?)

Doubt it. Women are always reduced historically to their sexual value whether it is recreational or reproductive.
I point of fact, I would argue the opposite direction in that the first world by definition is more K (slow life history strategy) and 3rd world of necessity more R (fast life history strategy). The R strategy environment is more apt to promote lots of sexual partners and by extension women being more sexually available for short term couplings.
The 1st world countries becoming more amoral, experiencing a severe collapse of faith and an upcoming social collapse has us moving towards R strategy behaviors. We can all provide an unpleasantly long list of the live fast die young indulgent selfish and hedonistic behavioral shifts in Europe and the European diaspora nations in the last 80+/- years.

 

[MeganC]

Doubt it. Women are always reduced historically to their sexual value whether it is recreational or reproductive.
I point of fact, I would argue the opposite direction in that the first world by definition is more K (slow life history strategy) and 3rd world of necessity more R (fast life history strategy). The R strategy environment is more apt to promote lots of sexual partners and by extension women being more sexually available for short term couplings.
The 1st world countries becoming more amoral, experiencing a severe collapse of faith and an upcoming social collapse has us moving towards R strategy behaviors. We can all provide an unpleasantly long list of the live fast die young indulgent selfish and hedonistic behavioral shifts in Europe and the European diaspora nations in the last 80+/- years.

I agree. In particular I agree with how you've neatly summarized this:

Women are always reduced historically to their sexual value whether it is recreational or reproductive.

Even when it is the secular leftists promoting their perverse dystopian 'feminism' they reduce women to their sexual value. Every aspect of the feminist movement is wrapped around women's sexual identity and they're utterly silent on things like intellect and academic achievement.

I will try to be discreet as I say this but my personal struggle was in understanding that the modern ideal for women is a lie. It is unnatural and it is a perversion. It was at odds with the feelings I had within me and my autism made it extremely difficult to empathize with the feminists. Their narratives and arguments were irrational to me.

Then the real struggle of transitioning from someone at odds with society to someone trying to adopt a more NORMAL life for a woman began.

In submitting to my husband and becoming a wife and mother I felt more free than I had ever felt before. It felt natural to me to be pregnant. It felt natural to be a mother. And it felt natural and rewarding to be my husband's girl toy (that's the most G-rated way I can say that!).

And I feel so much more valuable than if I had gone off and had a career and worked in a cubicle somewhere.

 

[paterfamilias]

I agree. In particular I agree with how you've neatly summarized this:

Women are always reduced historically to their sexual value whether it is recreational or reproductive.

Even when it is the secular leftists promoting their perverse dystopian 'feminism' they reduce women to their sexual value. Every aspect of the feminist movement is wrapped around women's sexual identity and they're utterly silent on things like intellect and academic achievement.

I will try to be discreet as I say this but my personal struggle was in understanding that the modern ideal for women is a lie. It is unnatural and it is a perversion. It was at odds with the feelings I had within me and my autism made it extremely difficult to empathize with the feminists. Their narratives and arguments were irrational to me.

Then the real struggle of transitioning from someone at odds with society to someone trying to adopt a more NORMAL life for a woman began.

In submitting to my husband and becoming a wife and mother I felt more free than I had ever felt before. It felt natural to me to be pregnant. It felt natural to be a mother. And it felt natural and rewarding to be my husband's girl toy (that's the most G-rated way I can say that!).

And I feel so much more valuable than if I had gone off and had a career and worked in a cubicle somewhere.

I am glad it has worked out so well for you and wish that more women would consider the potential benefits of the sort of life you have lead/leading.
Thinking on my previous remark about reducing women to sexual objects by way of establishing their value and your remarks about the current ideal image for women being a lie... I was also thinking that the idea of polygamy seems a more comfortable notion to women in their 40's+.
I wonder if it is because they are more pursued and feel more wanted and by extension like a more valuable commodity. That seems really cynical but whether i like it or not, it seems as if women see themselves in those terms as well. That when their perceived value has reduced, then they are more willing to settle for security, hearth and home sort of a thing.

By way of supporting that idea, in the notion that women see plural marriage as more acceptable for middle aged plus, I see just a tonne of the seeking profiles talking about how they have "had their fun or lead such a hard life, been through so much, are done partying and ready to settle down" etm. I don't imagine that I am the only one to notice this trend.

Not saying all the young ladies should be clamoring for the attention of middle aged guys like me or being bitter about them not seeking my company or anything of that nature...just musing, thinking out loud and trying to better understand one of my favorite topics ie women.

 

[MeganC]

Not saying all the young ladies should be clamoring for the attention of middle aged guys like me

Yet that is my advice to younger women who are considering the life. Older men with established families are proven husbands, fathers, and providers. It's also easy to figure out if they have good character by looking at their wife and kids. Good wife + good kids = Good Man!

One of the complaints Cydne had about guys her age was that they were more interested in their pickup trucks and video games than her.

A comment/joke I used to make:

Q: What do you have when you're 18 and your husband is 44?

A: HIs undivided attention!

Seriously, if someone is going to be/go plural then it needs to be a more practical decision than an emotional/romantic decision. The woman should be someone who adds to the family and for a woman the man should be a proven man.

 

[paterfamilias]

Yet that is my advice to younger women who are considering the life. Older men with established families are proven husbands, fathers, and providers. It's also easy to figure out if they have good character by looking at their wife and kids. Good wife + good kids = Good Man!

One of the complaints Cydne had about guys her age was that they were more interested in their pickup trucks and video games than her.

A comment/joke I used to make:

Q: What do you have when you're 18 and your husband is 44?

A: HIs undivided attention!

Seriously, if someone is going to be/go plural then it needs to be a more practical decision than an emotional/romantic decision. The woman should be someone who adds to the family and for a woman the man should be a proven man.

It would have to a genuinely exceptional 18 year old honestly.

I agree in very broad terms though.

I don't remotely mind the idea of taking up the role of teacher and mentor to a wife who has less life experience...the idea of experiencing again the joy of discovery in learning new ideas/skills/places is really appealing. The big but though is that I just have not encountered many very young women who think in terms of family, building home and or systems for the future, children and best ways to educate them, how to help with managing a home and family etm. I don't suppose that I am very likely in my life routine to meet that sort of woman so maybe they are very much out there and potentially common, just don't get that vibe.

I agree about a new wife having her husband's attention. I can certainly see that but the next time the time comes for me, I like to think that it will be more about new relationship energy rather than the pretty young woman equation. More focused on good wife than young wife ideally.. Won't pretend it is not common however. Most guys would be $#¡+$ and giggles about a young wife.

 

[Mark C]

...One of the complaints Cydne had about guys her age was that they were more interested in their pickup trucks and video games than her.

And if they are mature/wise/knowledgeable enough to have NOT taken the Poison Poke - even at age 75 - they're probably FAR more likely to be able to give her healthy children, to boot...

 

[MeganC]

The big but though is that I just have not encountered many very young women who think in terms of family, building home and or systems for the future, children and best ways to educate them, how to help with managing a home and family etm.

Most women don't think that way when they first get married. I know I didn't think of those things as anything more than daydreams/hypotheticals until I had babies on the way. In some ways I would imagine an older woman (30's 40's) would have bigger problems adjusting if she already had 10-20 years behind her living a modern lifestyle. In that way it was far easier for me to adjust at 18 than if I were trying it now at 32.

 

[paterfamilias]

Most women don't think that way when they first get married. I know I didn't think of those things as anything more than daydreams/hypotheticals until I had babies on the way. In some ways I would imagine an older woman (30's 40's) would have bigger problems adjusting if she already had 10-20 years behind her living a modern lifestyle. In that way it was far easier for me to adjust at 18 than if I were trying it now at 32.

That is a good point I had thought about but not recently.
I suppose a more adaptable young woman might have an easier time coming into a new home, family and routine than someone with all of the time and patterns of their own.
Not sure which would be more patient and apt to put up with my grumpy ass though.

 

[his_muse]

In submitting to my husband and becoming a wife and mother I felt more free than I had ever felt before. It felt natural to me to be pregnant. It felt natural to be a mother. And it felt natural and rewarding to be my husband's girl toy (that's the most G-rated way I can say that!).

Yes! 1) Why are young women not being taught that it is natural to be pregnant and be a mother? More would want to get married if they were. I was asked by a teenage girl once while sitting in the lounge of a department store bathroom if it hurt to breastfeed my baby. She wrinkled her nose and told me she’d never have babies because she wouldn’t want one “doing that to her boob”.
2) I was shocked when I had a family member once accuse me of making motherhood look “too natural” because I was potentially making another family member feel inadequate with her new baby. The idea that young mothers can’t instinctually take care of their babies and must buy the latest gadget or online membership to teach them how is nothing short of stupid. And the comparison game is dangerous. Women once lived by the idea of “it takes a village”, this is one huge benefit to a poly family, and one reason why a lot of secular minded people I know would reject the idea of polygamy.
3) I think if more women knew how amazing it is to be your husband’s girl toy then there wouldn’t be so many divorced women out there. I’m with you on that one, totally natural and very rewarding

 

[The Revolting Man]

A comment/joke I used to make:

Q: What do you have when you're 18 and your husband is 44?

Nice.

 

[MemeFan]

Yes! 1) Why are young women not being taught that it is natural to be pregnant and be a mother? More would want to get married if they were. I was asked by a teenage girl once while sitting in the lounge of a department store bathroom if it hurt to breastfeed my baby. She wrinkled her nose and told me she’d never have babies because she wouldn’t want one “doing that to her boob”.
2) I was shocked when I had a family member once accuse me of making motherhood look “too natural” because I was potentially making another family member feel inadequate with her new baby. The idea that young mothers can’t instinctually take care of their babies and must buy the latest gadget or online membership to teach them how is nothing short of stupid. And the comparison game is dangerous. Women once lived by the idea of “it takes a village”, this is one huge benefit to a poly family, and one reason why a lot of secular minded people I know would reject the idea of polygamy.
3) I think if more women knew how amazing it is to be your husband’s girl toy then there wouldn’t be so many divorced women out there. I’m with you on that one, totally natural and very rewarding

Because we are ruled by Mathusians. That why.

New people will bring catastrophe by overcomsuming resources, instead of creating new resources using inborn creativity and providential care of our Lord.