You just solved one of my inconsistencies issues!sadanyagci said:
Thank you, God, for bringing me here!
-
Biblical Families is not a dating website. It is a forum to discuss issues relating to marriage and the Bible, and to offer guidance and support, not to find a wife. Click here for more information.
Thank you, God, for bringing me here!
Bit of a problem here. Why would he use this language if the next statement was about doing what God says and not the ones who sit in Moses' seat? And why wouldn't Jesus use "God" instead of "He", if that is really what Jesus meant. Also, the Peshita says "they", not "He". http://www.peshitta.org/pdf/Mattich23.pdfMark C said:
I should perhaps have put in a bit more detail, Sadan.
Those details are described in Nehemiah Gordon's book, The Hebrew Yeshua vs. the Greek Jesus. Gordon is a Karaite, an expert on ancient Hebrew and Aramaic, and a translator on the Dead Sea Scrolls project; his book also contains an analysis of the existing set of known translations of the earliest copies of Matthew.
His conclusion is that that "Shem Tov's Matthew" is the earliest of those, and that the transcription error in that verse is the result of "...sit in Moshe's seat, therefore do as HE says" being rendered instead as "therefore do as THEY say" (a single yod being that difference).
The reference to Moshe and his writings did not strike me as unusual there. Among other such, the one that seems most related to me is the one from another witness, John 5:47, which says, also directly referencing Moshe, "But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe My words?
I know the subject is a bit controversial, although I had already seen significant evidence concerning Matthew elsewhere; enough to convince me that the majority conclusion that it was originally authored in Hebrew or Aramaic, and most likely a combination, was correct.
Hope that helps.
Blessings,
Mark
Those details are described in Nehemiah Gordon's book, The Hebrew Yeshua vs. the Greek Jesus. Gordon is a Karaite, an expert on ancient Hebrew and Aramaic, and a translator on the Dead Sea Scrolls project; his book also contains an analysis of the existing set of known translations of the earliest copies of Matthew.
His conclusion is that that "Shem Tov's Matthew" is the earliest of those, and that the transcription error in that verse is the result of "...sit in Moshe's seat, therefore do as HE says" being rendered instead as "therefore do as THEY say" (a single yod being that difference).
The reference to Moshe and his writings did not strike me as unusual there. Among other such, the one that seems most related to me is the one from another witness, John 5:47, which says, also directly referencing Moshe, "But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe My words?
I know the subject is a bit controversial, although I had already seen significant evidence concerning Matthew elsewhere; enough to convince me that the majority conclusion that it was originally authored in Hebrew or Aramaic, and most likely a combination, was correct.
Hope that helps.
Blessings,
Mark
Interesting... very interesting. A preliminary search didn't show much in favor of the Shem Tov Matthew, from the scholar's perspective at least... but it's definitely something to look into.
(I'm not one to trust Bible scholars... don't tell no body.) :lol:
(I'm not one to trust Bible scholars... don't tell no body.) :lol:
Sadan,
Sorry for the late reply. I appreciate what you wrote about believers vs. non-believers and divorce. I believe in general you are correct. What I am about to say may not be to peoples liking but I really do not care much as it came straight from God. I asked Him about these things several years ago and He told me that what He joins together man should not separate. When I married my current wife I did so because God told me to. I will not divorce her or even separate from her without His permission. However, He has in the past warned her when she was persistently rebellious that He would take her out of the marriage Himself. This type of thing has not been dealt with in the scripture specifically as far as I know. However, we must assume that we do not have all the answers since John said that if everything that Jesus did were to be written down that it might fill more books than the world could hold, let alone all the writings that were given to man from God that have been lost to us. That is why when I want to know something, I ask God and He tells me. It is quite simple really. However, that is also why I said that people need to have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit from that baptism of the Holy Spirit and need to be abiding in Christ, operating in their ministry gifts, etc., in order for them to expect to hear so clearly from God. He is not going to divulge deep things to a disobedient people. My most recent teaching deals with probably the most common error that people make in their Christian walk that keeps them in the dark, so to speak. The lack of enlightenment is why there is so much controversy about this subject because people are rendering their opinions in good faith, but have not really queried God on the subject, as I have. That is why I usually divorce myself from these dialogues because they are endless debates about issues that people who are not enlightened on, so they cannot possibly receive the true meaning of what Jesus and the apostles taught. You are very close to the truth, more so than most. I also believe that a couple of others have a pretty good handle on it as well. Some here can only understand the literal interpretation of the scriptures.
God did not list every reason that people can divorce because then everyone would divorce for any reason, just as the Israelites did when God started allowing it with them. From what God told me, the breakdown is as follows...
1 - If God joined two people together, they should not separate without His direction, (and there will be cases that He would do that - I can guarantee you).
2 - People who were married without Gods direction, (i.e., God did not join them together) and one gets saved, they should not separate without His direction. But, if the unbeliever, (male or female) leaves then the other person is free to remarry. They do not have to get some piece of paper to certify that the marriage is void, the voluntary act of leaving and abandonment of the left behind spouse makes this statement loud and clear. God will honor it even if man does not.
3 - Believers should not marry non-believers, even if they call themselves Christian. Believers should know believers by their fruit. Believers should ask God who to marry, and then they will be less likely to end in separation or divorce.
4 - The only real valid reason for a believer to divorce a spouse, (believer or non-believer) is adultery. However, the caveat that Jesus put in for those who want to try to live the letter of the law, is that even if the believers spouse committed adultery with someone else in their heart, that is as good enough. I dare anyone to come forward and say they have not done that, (this is why no one stuck around to throw stones at the adulteress). This would allow many women, (and perhaps a few men) to be free of abusive husbands like the one discussed in a recent post by Paul not the apostle. However, good intentioned advice from people who operate in human wisdom and thus do not truly understand the Word often helps keep these women in bondage to the abusive spouse by telling them that they cannot divorce and have a hope of remarriage unless the poor bloke dies, as sad as that is to say.
Bottom line is we should not divorce, but seek to live in peace. If you wish to make a list of the dos and donts of divorce and remarriage go ahead. Just when you think you have it complete, God will throw you a curve ball to show you how foolish you are for trying to do such a thing. That is why I tell people that they need to pray and ask God what to do in any given situation. He will tell them if they are walking in the right place with Him. I have no problem telling people who come under my spiritual covering what to do, because I ask God and He tells me if it is not already clear in the Word. With that I will say no more here.
Be blessed,
Ray
Sorry for the late reply. I appreciate what you wrote about believers vs. non-believers and divorce. I believe in general you are correct. What I am about to say may not be to peoples liking but I really do not care much as it came straight from God. I asked Him about these things several years ago and He told me that what He joins together man should not separate. When I married my current wife I did so because God told me to. I will not divorce her or even separate from her without His permission. However, He has in the past warned her when she was persistently rebellious that He would take her out of the marriage Himself. This type of thing has not been dealt with in the scripture specifically as far as I know. However, we must assume that we do not have all the answers since John said that if everything that Jesus did were to be written down that it might fill more books than the world could hold, let alone all the writings that were given to man from God that have been lost to us. That is why when I want to know something, I ask God and He tells me. It is quite simple really. However, that is also why I said that people need to have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit from that baptism of the Holy Spirit and need to be abiding in Christ, operating in their ministry gifts, etc., in order for them to expect to hear so clearly from God. He is not going to divulge deep things to a disobedient people. My most recent teaching deals with probably the most common error that people make in their Christian walk that keeps them in the dark, so to speak. The lack of enlightenment is why there is so much controversy about this subject because people are rendering their opinions in good faith, but have not really queried God on the subject, as I have. That is why I usually divorce myself from these dialogues because they are endless debates about issues that people who are not enlightened on, so they cannot possibly receive the true meaning of what Jesus and the apostles taught. You are very close to the truth, more so than most. I also believe that a couple of others have a pretty good handle on it as well. Some here can only understand the literal interpretation of the scriptures.
God did not list every reason that people can divorce because then everyone would divorce for any reason, just as the Israelites did when God started allowing it with them. From what God told me, the breakdown is as follows...
1 - If God joined two people together, they should not separate without His direction, (and there will be cases that He would do that - I can guarantee you).
2 - People who were married without Gods direction, (i.e., God did not join them together) and one gets saved, they should not separate without His direction. But, if the unbeliever, (male or female) leaves then the other person is free to remarry. They do not have to get some piece of paper to certify that the marriage is void, the voluntary act of leaving and abandonment of the left behind spouse makes this statement loud and clear. God will honor it even if man does not.
3 - Believers should not marry non-believers, even if they call themselves Christian. Believers should know believers by their fruit. Believers should ask God who to marry, and then they will be less likely to end in separation or divorce.
4 - The only real valid reason for a believer to divorce a spouse, (believer or non-believer) is adultery. However, the caveat that Jesus put in for those who want to try to live the letter of the law, is that even if the believers spouse committed adultery with someone else in their heart, that is as good enough. I dare anyone to come forward and say they have not done that, (this is why no one stuck around to throw stones at the adulteress). This would allow many women, (and perhaps a few men) to be free of abusive husbands like the one discussed in a recent post by Paul not the apostle. However, good intentioned advice from people who operate in human wisdom and thus do not truly understand the Word often helps keep these women in bondage to the abusive spouse by telling them that they cannot divorce and have a hope of remarriage unless the poor bloke dies, as sad as that is to say.
Bottom line is we should not divorce, but seek to live in peace. If you wish to make a list of the dos and donts of divorce and remarriage go ahead. Just when you think you have it complete, God will throw you a curve ball to show you how foolish you are for trying to do such a thing. That is why I tell people that they need to pray and ask God what to do in any given situation. He will tell them if they are walking in the right place with Him. I have no problem telling people who come under my spiritual covering what to do, because I ask God and He tells me if it is not already clear in the Word. With that I will say no more here.
Be blessed,
Ray