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Struggle against flesh and blood

N

NVIII

Seasoned Member
Male
What value, if any, is there in struggling against the symptoms of evil we see around us and are affected by? Jesus said His kingdom us not of this world. Paul (I think) said we struggle not against flesh and blood. Many martyrs willingly gave their earthly bodies in service to the Lord, being imprisoned, tortured, and killed without complaint.

On one hand, the only solution seems to be the "final solution", to borrow a euphemism. But, on the other hand, if we do nothing, many suffer. If you saw a purse snatcher at work in an alley, would you bid the woman "keep warm and well-fed", or would you intervene? Can your answer to this be expanded to current larger political situations? Why or why not?

I have struggled with this for some time now.
 
NVIII said:
Jesus said His kingdom is not of this world.
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That "world" is from cosmos which doesn't necessarily mean the earth. He may have been saying something like what he told his disciples in Mat. 20:25

But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them. 26But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister; 27And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant:

His kingdom is not of (not the substance of) this system.
It explains the reasons they were willing to lay down their lives....without giving the earth away to the devil, or the wicked.
 
Joleneakamama said:
That "world" is from cosmos which doesn't necessarily mean the earth. He may have been saying something like what he told his disciples in Mat. 20:25

But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them. 26But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister; 27And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant:

His kingdom is not of (not the substance of) this system.
It explains the reasons they were willing to lay down their lives....without giving the earth away to the devil, or the wicked.
Click to expand...
I think Joleneakamama is correct. The Kingdom of Christ operates very differently than the kingdoms of this world (not of this world), but it is still at work here and now in this physical world. We are to seek the reign and rule of Christ everywhere all the time, because He has been given all authority in heaven and on earth. He commands us to take the Gospel to all nations, baptize them, and teach them to obey everything He commanded.

As Christians, we are called to be "in the world, but not of the world".

We need to fight against evil because Christ did, because the meek shall inherit the earth, and because Christ owns and claims authority over every atom in the universe.
 
Main reason for fighting is better life for you and your children in this life.

Without fight year/two ago we would all live in medical dictatorship.

It is simple. There is no need for spiritual explanations, althought is it certainly factor. There is always elite and they always prefer power centralization which leads to communism which causes whole system to crash. Greater resistance means sooner current system will fall down and less damage is will cause.

Worst case is living under totalitarian system where population is convincted totalitariasm is neccesary for survival. Here, not matter the abuse or system failures, system will persist.

Think about progressivism. From late 19th century idea that experts should be in charge is pushed. No matter the failures, progressives believe we needed ever more experts and more rights, more central control.

Reason for process is following. We can divide centralization as internal (inside organisation) and external (amount of competition). Elite will start to develop in any organisation where for each organisation all members can't be consulted and make decision together.

So elite is needed to run organisation and without internal centralisation organisation can't be effective. Whole point of organisation it to achieve something no man can achieve alone amd this requires that everyone pushes in same direction which in only possible under central command.

What is important to notice it that elite runs elite selection process (election, is new potential king rightful heir or not?) which means they can subvert whole election process and keep themselves in power. Why? Because leadership position brings best money, status etc....

Regarding external centralisation, for users and members of organisations, more the better. Think free market. It is abudance of choice which forces organisation to keep offering ever better deals. From organisation side, less competition is better. More for organisation. Max eternal centralization = monopoly position.

From perspective of elite best is maximum internal and external centralization. External centralization enables elite to maximise extraction of resources from outside. Maximum internal centralization enables them to maximise their share of organisation's resource. So organisation gets most possible money which is mostly put in their own pocket.

This process can be seen in all organisations, althought states are easiest example. Think about EU and USA goverments. Both are working to elimininate and vassalite other states to remove competition. This achieves external centralization.

And both EU Commision and Federal goverment are working overtime in order to force more legislation and higher taxes in order to maximise their power and income. This is internal centralization.

Is it also important to notice High-Low alliance. High is ruling class and Low are ruled. There is also Middle which aren't exactly ruled or rules, they combine both. Ruling class can't rule alone, thry need helpers to run things. Middle are this helpers. Think nobles in feudalism or mayors/taxmen in today's USA.

It is middle in whose interest is blocking centralization of High power. Therefore High and Middle are in conflict which forces High to offer alliance with Low in other to defeat Middle. And this alliance centralizes power and provides more resources to High. Off course, some spoils are provided to Low. Low also receive "liberation" from Middle.

In Middle Age, high nobility (Middle) wanted to run their own currencies, provide economic development, control fees etc.. while king and his court (High) wanted to run same these things. So kings have offered peasants and citizens (Low) alliance which would crush high nobility. Low get freedom from feudal duties and kings have formed modern states.

Today situation is same. Only difference is that states under egalitarism are inventing new "protected classes". They receive state protection, liberation from family duties, while state centralizes power and income. Protected clasess are Low, state is High and regular people are Middle.

It is families which block further centralization of power. If family is protecting you, you are more free to disobey orders from above.

Trans children are nothing more than push by state in order to control children and destroy what remains of family.

Problem with "spiritual lenses" is belief that right people can fix currentvsystem. No that is not possible. Fervent Christians as elite can't fix current system. They may stop promoting homosexuality and divorce. But they will still get more power and income by inventing new "protected classes".

And nothing stops elite from figuring out that their interests would be best served by keeping same policies as current elite. Only difference is that "Christian" elite would be forced to be more subversive than current ones.Don't worry, Christ especially loves trans children and parents are lacking in faith. Children need care of our special experts to "install" proper faith.

Only long term solution is radical decentralization. This will restore competition and force organisations to behave properly.
 
MemeFan said:
Main reason for fighting is better life for you and your children in this life.

Without fight year/two ago we would all live in medical dictatorship.

It is simple. There is no need for spiritual explanations, althought is it certainly factor. There is always elite and they always prefer power centralization which leads to communism which causes whole system to crash. Greater resistance means sooner current system will fall down and less damage is will cause.

Worst case is living under totalitarian system where population is convincted totalitariasm is neccesary for survival. Here, not matter the abuse or system failures, system will persist.

Think about progressivism. From late 19th century idea that experts should be in charge is pushed. No matter the failures, progressives believe we needed ever more experts and more rights, more central control.

Reason for process is following. We can divide centralization as internal (inside organisation) and external (amount of competition). Elite will start to develop in any organisation where for each organisation all members can't be consulted and make decision together.

So elite is needed to run organisation and without internal centralisation organisation can't be effective. Whole point of organisation it to achieve something no man can achieve alone amd this requires that everyone pushes in same direction which in only possible under central command.

What is important to notice it that elite runs elite selection process (election, is new potential king rightful heir or not?) which means they can subvert whole election process and keep themselves in power. Why? Because leadership position brings best money, status etc....

Regarding external centralisation, for users and members of organisations, more the better. Think free market. It is abudance of choice which forces organisation to keep offering ever better deals. From organisation side, less competition is better. More for organisation. Max eternal centralization = monopoly position.

From perspective of elite best is maximum internal and external centralization. External centralization enables elite to maximise extraction of resources from outside. Maximum internal centralization enables them to maximise their share of organisation's resource. So organisation gets most possible money which is mostly put in their own pocket.

This process can be seen in all organisations, althought states are easiest example. Think about EU and USA goverments. Both are working to elimininate and vassalite other states to remove competition. This achieves external centralization.

And both EU Commision and Federal goverment are working overtime in order to force more legislation and higher taxes in order to maximise their power and income. This is internal centralization.

Is it also important to notice High-Low alliance. High is ruling class and Low are ruled. There is also Middle which aren't exactly ruled or rules, they combine both. Ruling class can't rule alone, thry need helpers to run things. Middle are this helpers. Think nobles in feudalism or mayors/taxmen in today's USA.

It is middle in whose interest is blocking centralization of High power. Therefore High and Middle are in conflict which forces High to offer alliance with Low in other to defeat Middle. And this alliance centralizes power and provides more resources to High. Off course, some spoils are provided to Low. Low also receive "liberation" from Middle.

In Middle Age, high nobility (Middle) wanted to run their own currencies, provide economic development, control fees etc.. while king and his court (High) wanted to run same these things. So kings have offered peasants and citizens (Low) alliance which would crush high nobility. Low get freedom from feudal duties and kings have formed modern states.

Today situation is same. Only difference is that states under egalitarism are inventing new "protected classes". They receive state protection, liberation from family duties, while state centralizes power and income. Protected clasess are Low, state is High and regular people are Middle.

It is families which block further centralization of power. If family is protecting you, you are more free to disobey orders from above.

Trans children are nothing more than push by state in order to control children and destroy what remains of family.

Problem with "spiritual lenses" is belief that right people can fix currentvsystem. No that is not possible. Fervent Christians as elite can't fix current system. They may stop promoting homosexuality and divorce. But they will still get more power and income by inventing new "protected classes".

And nothing stops elite from figuring out that their interests would be best served by keeping same policies as current elite. Only difference is that "Christian" elite would be forced to be more subversive than current ones.Don't worry, Christ especially loves trans children and parents are lacking in faith. Children need care of our special experts to "install" proper faith.

Only long term solution is radical decentralization. This will restore competition and force organisations to behave properly.
Click to expand...
To summarize..."because we still have to live here, and the Torah/scriptures say we are to preserve life."
I was looking for a church once and researched a particular denominations doctrine, and their official stand was their members were not to vote. I told the pastor that I couldn't sit under his preaching knowing that their 200,000 members, through their inaction, contributed to the sick administration we are currently living under.
 
NVIII said:
Can your answer to this be expanded to current larger political situations?
Click to expand...
Yes, I believe we live in the world so should work to improve or at least preserve it. That may mean using secular politics - but we must bear in mind that most politics doesn't actually work. Democracy distracts the public into spending vast amounts of time, money and most especially emotion on debates and candidates that actually achieve nothing. It's the "new opiate of the masses" - it keeps people hoping that next year they'll be able to elect someone who fixes everything, so the people submit in the meantime. And "next year" never comes.

So yes, we are to work to improve the world. But that doesn't necessarily mean we have to be active in politics, marching in every protest, and so forth. We should rather find what God would have us do. Sometimes that might mean marching in a protest - but more of the time it may mean just growing a big vegetable garden or caring for your local sick - directly fixing the world's problems rather than trying to persuade the government to fix them.

We are citizens of a greater kingdom, and must work to advance that, without getting overly distracted by temporary secular politics. There's a balance, and it's often hard to find, but it's there somewhere.
 
NVIII said:
What value, if any, is there in struggling against the symptoms of evil we see around us and are affected by? Jesus said His kingdom us not of this world. Paul (I think) said we struggle not against flesh and blood. Many martyrs willingly gave their earthly bodies in service to the Lord, being imprisoned, tortured, and killed without complaint.

On one hand, the only solution seems to be the "final solution", to borrow a euphemism. But, on the other hand, if we do nothing, many suffer. If you saw a purse snatcher at work in an alley, would you bid the woman "keep warm and well-fed", or would you intervene? Can your answer to this be expanded to current larger political situations? Why or why not?

I have struggled with this for some time now.
Click to expand...
Do you want freedom to worship God the way you believe the Bible instructs you to, or don't you.

The institution is trying to take away your freedoms one by one. Religion and speech in particular. They would have already done it, if it wasn't enshrined in the US constitution, for example.

If you don't act, do you think things will get better for you in this lifetime, or worse. Those that do wickedly and enforce wickedness are acting. Politically and in every way. I want to live in peace. I want to be left alone to live out my life, the way God would have me to. I can't do that if my freedoms are taken away by the institution. We can't just ignore politics and hope things will get better. They won't. Therefore, do what you have to do to live out your life in peace and according to your beliefs. That means being a voice in this current world. Those that do wickedly are using their voices with a megaphone.
 
NVIII said:
What value, if any, is there in struggling against the symptoms of evil we see around us and are affected by? Jesus said His kingdom us not of this world. Paul (I think) said we struggle not against flesh and blood. Many martyrs willingly gave their earthly bodies in service to the Lord, being imprisoned, tortured, and killed without complaint.

On one hand, the only solution seems to be the "final solution", to borrow a euphemism. But, on the other hand, if we do nothing, many suffer. If you saw a purse snatcher at work in an alley, would you bid the woman "keep warm and well-fed", or would you intervene? Can your answer to this be expanded to current larger political situations? Why or why not?

I have struggled with this for some time now.
Click to expand...
On one hand, if someone slaps you on the cheek, turn the other cheek so they can slap that one as well. Hard in practice for sure. On the other hand, I am my brothers keeper, so if i see my neighbour getting slapped around I had better temp in and help out. But then, we are not to get involved in other peoples quarrls as David explains in Proverbs. Which I would take to mean that if someone is being an idiot and looking for a fist to put their face into, you best just let em and keep on walking by. Don’t forget that the Lord also told the apostles to sell their cloak and buy a sword. Yes a literal sword. If you live by the sword or kill with the sword you will die by the sword, but so too does a bee die when it decides to sting. We re called to be courageous and wise. Meekness is to be armed with a sword but having the restraint to endure others, not taking everyone’s head off especially if they are weaker. It’s a pretty awesome calling
At the end of the day this will look a little different for everyone. Paul was hardcore and tough. Stephan was courageous. King David was a man after Gods heart and Samual was a wrecking machine. All being what God called them to be in their time. The more we pursue Gods will the more he will give us. Check out Ephesians 3. I think you’ll find your answer there.
 
Mr.S said:
On one hand, if someone slaps you on the cheek, turn the other cheek so they can slap that one as well. Hard in practice for sure. On the other hand, I am my brothers keeper, so if i see my neighbour getting slapped around I had better temp in and help out. But then, we are not to get involved in other peoples quarrls as David explains in Proverbs. Which I would take to mean that if someone is being an idiot and looking for a fist to put their face into, you best just let em and keep on walking by. Don’t forget that the Lord also told the apostles to sell their cloak and buy a sword. Yes a literal sword. If you live by the sword or kill with the sword you will die by the sword, but so too does a bee die when it decides to sting. We re called to be courageous and wise. Meekness is to be armed with a sword but having the restraint to endure others, not taking everyone’s head off especially if they are weaker. It’s a pretty awesome calling
At the end of the day this will look a little different for everyone. Paul was hardcore and tough. Stephan was courageous. King David was a man after Gods heart and Samual was a wrecking machine. All being what God called them to be in their time. The more we pursue Gods will the more he will give us. Check out Ephesians 3. I think you’ll find your answer there.
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So to continue your analogies, a snake kills repeatedly, a wasp stings repeatedly, and a police officer justifiably kills multiple times and lives a full life.
Sounds like your point is to stay in the lane you were called to, and which ever lane it is, take it seriously?

Edit: And... if you go outside your lane take it seriously and consider the cost.
 
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Mr.S said:
On one hand, if someone slaps you on the cheek, turn the other cheek so they can slap that one as well. Hard in practice for sure. On the other hand, I am my brothers keeper, so if i see my neighbour getting slapped around I had better temp in and help out. But then, we are not to get involved in other peoples quarrls as David explains in Proverbs. Which I would take to mean that if someone is being an idiot and looking for a fist to put their face into, you best just let em and keep on walking by. Don’t forget that the Lord also told the apostles to sell their cloak and buy a sword. Yes a literal sword. If you live by the sword or kill with the sword you will die by the sword, but so too does a bee die when it decides to sting. We re called to be courageous and wise. Meekness is to be armed with a sword but having the restraint to endure others, not taking everyone’s head off especially if they are weaker. It’s a pretty awesome calling
At the end of the day this will look a little different for everyone. Paul was hardcore and tough. Stephan was courageous. King David was a man after Gods heart and Samual was a wrecking machine. All being what God called them to be in their time. The more we pursue Gods will the more he will give us. Check out Ephesians 3. I think you’ll find your answer there.
Click to expand...
Yep. All of that. Every time I consider it, it's always, "But on the other hand...".

I read it, but I may be too dense to understand how Ephesians 3 applies. Can you expound on that?
 
NVIII said:
Yep. All of that. Every time I consider it, it's always, "But on the other hand...".

I read it, but I may be too dense to understand how Ephesians 3 applies. Can you expound on that?
Click to expand...
I didn't get the Eph 3 reference either.
 
NVIII said:
What value, if any, is there in struggling against the symptoms of evil we see around us and are affected by? Jesus said His kingdom us not of this world. Paul (I think) said we struggle not against flesh and blood. Many martyrs willingly gave their earthly bodies in service to the Lord, being imprisoned, tortured, and killed without complaint.

On one hand, the only solution seems to be the "final solution..."
Click to expand...
The "final solution" has been obvious for years, still denied by the blind.

The Adversary, and those who serve him, comes but to "steal, kill, and destroy." They have already, almost certainly, killed more than any dictator before in human history. And are still working on it.

The solution has been there all along. Votes won't work, as Stalin pointed out, when they can be manufactured (or swapped) like fake 'money'.

While it's a long study, the nexus is 'commerce'. In the US the 'commerce clause' was subverted during the New Deal, if not before, in 1913, 1865, or "Re-[actually De-]-construction." It is being constructed, almost a fait accompli via the Socialist Credit Score, vaxx 'passports', WHO, and the Fed CBDC (Fed Now, BidenBux)

"Come out of her, My people." Don't participate; the trap leads to death. And Target, and drinking the Bud Lite. The 501-c(3) Whore Church has led the way.

Trouble is, the system is bigger and more insidious that most can imagine, especially if they don't see through even the face diapers and Zyklon-B injections. The power grid is designed for failure, and the EV idiocy will push it over the edge if the false flags don't take it out sooner.

Being off-grid is only a start. 'Self-sufficiency' is ultimately a near-impossibility, and only one person in a million (to paraphrase the Evil John Maynard Keynes) understands "Biblical economics."

But the wise have already at least started looking, because time is VERY short.
 
NVIII said:
Yep. All of that. Every time I consider it, it's always, "But on the other hand...".

I read it, but I may be too dense to understand how Ephesians 3 applies. Can you expound on that?
Click to expand...
Ephesians 3:8 …to preach to the gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ and to bring to light for everyone what is the plan of the mystery hidden for ages in God who created al things so that through the church the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly places.

Just that so much of what we do here on earth is a testament of Gods plan not just for us but for the authorities in the heavenly places. Its a spiritual battle that extends beyond this world and into what we cannot see. So there is a purpose to all the madness and we are not to give up fighting. Imagine coming home after a long costly battle and you get to eat not just the Lord who says good job faithful servant, but you already have made a name for yourself in that place where the rulers and authorities know you by your works. How terrible to try and squeak into heaven without having achieved anything of significance here on earth. Does not the Lord say build up your treasures in heaven? And you shall see your rewards n heaven. It’s heartening to know that such is the case. The Vikings believed dying in a good battle landed you in the halls of Valhalla where you feast with other warriors in an eternal party. That’s pretty awesome when you’re facing down death In a battle. We are also in a battle and we too have our heaven to go home to and our feast and more, our son ship, adopted as hires.
Standing your ground and fighting against the wickedness of this world and taking on what God is bringing you through is your testimony and Gods manifold wisdom not just for us but for them, rulers and authorities in heavenly paces.
 
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