This is absolutely key. We end up jumping to arguing about extreme situations that virtually never occur (e.g. skulls on windowsills!). As windblown pointed out, this is very much like how whenever someone points out that abortion is wrong, the first response is "what about if the woman was raped", and then a big debate ensues about whether a raped woman should be "forced" to keep the child. Which is equally ridiculous, because an absolutely miniscule number of abortions are the result of rape - if you banned abortion for all other reasons but allowed it for rape alone, you'd almost completely eliminate abortion overnight. So the debate is pointless. And we're getting into the same territory in this discussion.OTOH, ya can't help but notice that much attention is giving to the "yeah, but..." side of female submission, while virtually no attention is given to any limits on the obligation of a man to love his wife. You can't even mention Eph 5:22 in passing without kicking off a "where do you draw the line?" kind of conversation or argument, but when's the last time you heard anyone discussing the point at which a guy is released from his obligations? "Over the past ten years under the influence of some worldly friends (or those nasty gossips at church) my wife has become an insufferable b*tch, so I have decided I am no longer required to love her at all."
I'm not saying we need to ramp up that convo for the sake of equality. I'm saying it's weird that most of the discussion around Eph 5:22 that I've heard over the past 40 years has been around where it stops, instead of how to implement it in one's day-to-day walk.
In almost every conceivable real-world situation, a woman is to submit to the will of her husband. The only situations that are potential exceptions are so extreme that they are not worth even worrying about unless you happen to find yourself in them - and then the answer may depend somewhat on the details so any speculations we made here may be irrelevant anyway.
Another excellent point. It is extremely valuable to discuss issues in detail with a wife, she can offer enormous additional perspectives, knowledge and wisdom on it - but this discussion is helping to inform her husband's decision, not to come to a democratic consensus, and such discussions need not occur on every issue (there may not even be time for that).andrew said:If I can't lead anywhere until my follower understands exactly what I'm doing and why and agrees with everything I explain, then who's really leading?...