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Supreme Court challenge of cohabitation and bigamy laws

rejoicinghandmaid said:
It encourages my heart greatly as I see the men interacting in this BF family, discussing, strategizing, planning, thinking of how to promote their desire and conviction of plural marriage!
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And, thank you for your support, encouragement, wisdom and especially prayers.

And, while saying that, and feeling like a 'Johnny come lately', huge thanks to the pioneers and sages on this board that have blazed a trail over decades. I'll leave many out if I try to name a bunch, but @andrew @FollowingHim @nathan @julieb @Poodles @FollowingHim2 @steve especially come to mind. So thankful you answered the call, willingly or not... Abba had you in HIS plan. Thank you for being vessels.
 
PeteR said:
Not sure I agree... while Dowell is very hardline in some areas, I do think he is willing to build some coalitions. I've seen him interview Hondo and Dr. Gina Murray, both of which have differing thelogical beliefs within the 'Christian' perspective. Both are African-American, so that is a barrier that may or may not be real... his military background should help a few of us build bridges as we've all operated in a largely colorless environment. ...

Hmmm... I've never reached out to him. Guess I know what I'll be doing this evening.
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I may be a little biased. He's certainly nowhere near as hardline as some of the other Black Hebrew Israelites but he has gotten more pricklish over the years. He has cut ties with a ministry I'm close to though so like I said, I may be biased.
 
PeteR said:
Understand.. but an easier coalition to build might be between the growing black Christian/Israelite community as well as with Hebrew roots/ Torah communities. There are more faith connections than with Mormons... jmho
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ZecAustin said:
The divide is similar to the one with Islam. There is just so much we can't agree on, their Christology is just right on the line, the Book or Mormon is pretty far out there and celestial marriage just doesn't line up with scripture. I know the enemy of.my enemy is my friend supposedly but that would be a very uneasy alliance.
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I understand both your points but mine was more in the idea that the Mormon presents in the secular world does bring some weight and since we are trying to effect that world it would seem natural to use some of its resources. I agree the spiritual battle is were things actually take place but we all can't stay in our prayer closets to change the world.

I am not sure about the celestial marriage thing not being scriptural. I don't think it is even actual defined in scripture. It's a future event that only Mormons are willing to take a look at. Even though having your own planet is odd, it still raises the question, about living in the world to come.
 
Cap said:
I am not sure about the celestial marriage thing not being scriptural. I don't think it is even actual defined in scripture. It's a future event that only Mormons are willing to take a look at.
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The idea that females do not exist in the afterlife if they are not sealed to a male in this life is just one of the things that I have a problem with.

Quite frankly, I have no desire to fight for rights that I , before YHWH, still have.
Helping defend someone that is accused of violating his neighbors “rights” by living a Biblical lifestyle should be a priority though.
 
Cap said:
I understand both your points but mine was more in the idea that the Mormon presents in the secular world does bring some weight and since we are trying to effect that world it would seem natural to use some of its resources. I agree the spiritual battle is were things actually take place but we all can't stay in our prayer closets to change the world.

I am not sure about the celestial marriage thing not being scriptural. I don't think it is even actual defined in scripture. It's a future event that only Mormons are willing to take a look at. Even though having your own planet is odd, it still raises the question, about living in the world to come.
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We're told there will be no giving or taking in marriage in heaven, that alone cancels out celestial marriage. Now admittedly it does say that we'll be like the angels and we know what they did with the daughters of men so there is a lot we can't be sure about but we can be fairly confident that celestial marriage will not be a part of heaven.
 
ZecAustin said:
We're told there will be no giving or taking in marriage in heaven, that alone cancels out celestial marriage. Now admittedly it does say that we'll be like the angels and we know what they did with the daughters of men so there is a lot we can't be sure about but we can be fairly confident that celestial marriage will not be a part of heaven.
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Just playing devils advocate, not that I believe in celestial marriage at all! There are several questions that arise from that passage. Obviously the men asking assumed that she would be married to someone in the afterlife. They were just asking which one she would be married to.

Does Christ’s statement mean that there will not be the ceremony of marriage or giving in marriage? Does it mean that men and women wont be married at all, even if they were here? (The bound on earth, bound in heaven phrase comes to mind) Does it mean that there will be no relationships that look like what we know of as marriage? Or will the construct be so different that it is unrecognizable as marriage?

I don’t know and have no position on this other than to realize that there is so much we don’t know, its hard to take a position other than to say, this is what Jesus said, I’m not sure exactly what it means. I don’t know exactly why they think they’ll be gods and goddesses on their own planets but it would be interesting to see where that idea came from.
 
ZecAustin said:
We're told there will be no giving or taking in marriage in heaven, that alone cancels out celestial marriage. Now admittedly it does say that we'll be like the angels and we know what they did with the daughters of men so there is a lot we can't be sure about but we can be fairly confident that celestial marriage will not be a part of heaven.
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I understand that but am not quite convinced that there is some kind of recognition of those who are Godly joined together here on earth will not have some connection in Heaven. As priest that can wear different types of clothing based on which court they operate in, earthly AND heavenly once we become immortal I believe the possibility exists to have some understanding of the one we are joined to as one here on earth. Makes no sense to the joining of two to become one on earth only to become one again in Heaven.
 
Verifyveritas76 said:
I don’t know and have no position on this other than to realize that there is so much we don’t know, its hard to take a position other than to say, this is what Jesus said, I’m not sure exactly what it means. I don’t know exactly why they think they’ll be gods and goddesses on their own planets but it would be interesting to see where that idea came from.
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This is exactly the reason I find the Mormon view interesting, as they are trying to understand the Heavenly life beyond this one. Granted there is great room for error as who can really know, but at least they are trying to see over the wall.
 
Verifyveritas76 said:
Just playing devils advocate, not that I believe in celestial marriage at all! There are several questions that arise from that passage. Obviously the men asking assumed that she would be married to someone in the afterlife. They were just asking which one she would be married to.

Does Christ’s statement mean that there will not be the ceremony of marriage or giving in marriage? Does it mean that men and women wont be married at all, even if they were here? (The bound on earth, bound in heaven phrase comes to mind) Does it mean that there will be no relationships that look like what we know of as marriage? Or will the construct be so different that it is unrecognizable as marriage?

I don’t know and have no position on this other than to realize that there is so much we don’t know, its hard to take a position other than to say, this is what Jesus said, I’m not sure exactly what it means. I don’t know exactly why they think they’ll be gods and goddesses on their own planets but it would be interesting to see where that idea came from.
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And, there us the fact that Adam and Eve were 'one flesh' and had the command to be fruitful before the fall...

I tend to think, but cannot prove from Scripture, that Adam and Eve would have had access to the whole universe and we will... further, their restriction to human form was at least partly about limiting damage to the universe while the sin issue was dealt with...

Again, no proof, but I think the original mandate, in expanded form may be part of the future for redeemed mankind. I don't agree with Mormon doctrine, because I don't see it clearly in Scripture, but they may have parts of the idea right... their godhood thing, that us definitely wrong, though I wonder about the 'mighty men' in Elohim's court. Job 1 and some Psalms.

Bottom line, work toward the Kingdom, expecting, as prophesied, a full physical manifestation on this side of the New Heaven and New Earth. More details in the Millennium when Moshiach is here.
 
I could care less the heavenly status of marriage when it comes to defending our rights in the here and now; it has zero bearing on it. All it means is that the Mormons have extra incentive to defend polygyny.
 
The two shall be “one flesh”, not one spirit, but one flesh. We are going to receive new bodies, bodies that apparently are not one flesh with other people. We won’t marry (man) or be given in marriage (woman), it just won’t be a thing there, for whatever reason. Apparently non-fallen angels don’t do it either. It sounds pretty simple to me.
 
rockfox said:
Where can I find those?
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See youtube and Amazon for Hondo Solomon. Amazon for Gina Murray, though I think Pastor Dowell interviewed her, and it was a terrific, humble, wise interaction. I'll go hunt links...

https://m.youtube.com/user/HondoSolomon7/videos

https://m.youtube.com/results?search_query=dr+gina+murray

https://www.amazon.com/Biblical-Fam...=1554075738&s=gateway&sprefix=Gina+mur&sr=8-1

https://www.amazon.com/Polygamist-P...776&s=gateway&sprefix=Hondo+s&sr=8-1-fkmrnull

Now, I am NOT necessarily endorsing all they say, I am currently reading the linked books. Both have great info. I really like Dr. Murray's book and I enjoyed her interview with Dowell when I heard it months ago... the point is simply to let y'all know that these are some voices on topic in the arena.

I'll review the books on that board.
 
PeteR said:
See youtube and Amazon for Hondo Solomon. Amazon for Gina Murray, though I think Pastor Dowell interviewed her, and it was a terrific, humble, wise interaction. I'll go hunt links...

https://m.youtube.com/user/HondoSolomon7/videos

https://m.youtube.com/results?search_query=dr+gina+murray

https://www.amazon.com/Biblical-Fam...=1554075738&s=gateway&sprefix=Gina+mur&sr=8-1

https://www.amazon.com/Polygamist-P...776&s=gateway&sprefix=Hondo+s&sr=8-1-fkmrnull

Now, I am NOT necessarily endorsing all they say, I am currently reading the linked books. Both have great info. I really like Dr. Murray's book and I enjoyed her interview with Dowell when I heard it months ago... the point is simply to let y'all know that these are some voices on topic in the arena.

I'll review the books on that board.
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I am 99.9% sure that Gina Murray is a member here and has posted a link to her book in the review section. She reached out to me after I put a very fluffball video up on YouTube but she had been a member for years.
 
I cannot believe that two who become one flesh and of whom it is written "let noone separate" could mean that we won't be connected to our spouse in some special way in heaven. That seems very antithetical to the Scriptures' taught pattern of God's eternal (unchanging) nature and the permanent nature of the oneness that is marriage. Like really, Boaz would get to heaven and just be like "oh hi, Im Boaz. I think we met once, Ruth. Anyway, talk later!". That seems so contradictory to how the Bible depicts the marriage union of two souls like "I and the Father are one", IE eternal
 
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EternalDreamer said:
I cannot believe that two who become one flesh and of whom it is written "let noone separate) could mean that we won't be connected to our spouse in some special way in heaven. That seems very antithetical to the Scriptures' taught pattern of God's eternal (unchanging) nature and the permanent nature of the oneness that is marriage. Like really, Boaz would get to heaven and just be like "oh hi, Im Boaz. I think we met once, Ruth. Anyway, talk later!". That seems so contradictory to how the Bible depicts the marriage union of two souls like "I and the Father are one", IE eternal
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Totally agree!
 
EternalDreamer said:
I cannot believe that two who become one flesh and of whom it is written "let noone separate" could mean that we won't be connected to our spouse in some special way in heaven. That seems very antithetical to the Scriptures' taught pattern of God's eternal (unchanging) nature and the permanent nature of the oneness that is marriage. Like really, Boaz would get to heaven and just be like "oh hi, Im Boaz. I think we met once, Ruth. Anyway, talk later!". That seems so contradictory to how the Bible depicts the marriage union of two souls like "I and the Father are one", IE eternal
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Except that we know that death ends a marriage, so much so that a new one can be formed. I hope you're right. It hurts me to think I won't be my wife's husband in heaven but for now I have to go with the evidence I have before me.
 
ZecAustin said:
Except that we know that death ends a marriage, so much so that a new one can be formed. I hope you're right. It hurts me to think I won't be my wife's husband in heaven but for now I have to go with the evidence I have before me.
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Hmm. That is true. Perhaps though it is not the marriage bond of hearts that ends with death, but the exclusivity of a woman to her man? Hmm.
 
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