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Taking Marriage Private Article

Dr. K.R. Allen

Member
Real Person
There has been a lot of discussion about seeking the state to grant PM the right to marry with the state license or with state recognition.

This article by a history scholar I think is helpful to the discussion. The idea of making marriage a state issue is a new idea with very little historical support. Maybe we should stop trying to support the state view and take the private view. Instead of trying to pressure legislators in the state or in Federal Congress to recognize PM as a marriage there seems to be a better way of approaching this subject. If all unions were contractually based then the families and religious groups could define them however they see fit and the state could simply look at unions as either business or personal contracts without getting into the definition of what is or is not a holy union before God, something the state here in America does not need to do since that is a religious issue where the state must remain neutral.

I think there is a much safer approach and one that can be won because it does not pit one group against another, and thus it is easier to gain support for this approach.

Dr. Allen

November 26, 2007
Op-Ed ContributorTaking Marriage Private By STEPHANIE COONTZ
Olympia, Wash.

WHY do people — gay or straight — need the state’s permission to marry? For most of Western history, they didn’t, because marriage was a private contract between two families. The parents’ agreement to the match, not the approval of church or state, was what confirmed its validity.

For 16 centuries, Christianity also defined the validity of a marriage on the basis of a couple’s wishes. If two people claimed they had exchanged marital vows — even out alone by the haystack — the Catholic Church accepted that they were validly married.

In 1215, the church decreed that a “licit” marriage must take place in church. But people who married illictly had the same rights and obligations as a couple married in church: their children were legitimate; the wife had the same inheritance rights; the couple was subject to the same prohibitions against divorce.

Not until the 16th century did European states begin to require that marriages be performed under legal auspices. In part, this was an attempt to prevent unions between young adults whose parents opposed their match.

The American colonies officially required marriages to be registered, but until the mid-19th century, state supreme courts routinely ruled that public cohabitation was sufficient evidence of a valid marriage. By the later part of that century, however, the United States began to nullify common-law marriages and exert more control over who was allowed to marry.

By the 1920s, 38 states prohibited whites from marrying blacks, “mulattos,” Japanese, Chinese, Indians, “Mongolians,” “Malays” or Filipinos. Twelve states would not issue a marriage license if one partner was a drunk, an addict or a “mental defect.” Eighteen states set barriers to remarriage after divorce.

In the mid-20th century, governments began to get out of the business of deciding which couples were “fit” to marry. Courts invalidated laws against interracial marriage, struck down other barriers and even extended marriage rights to prisoners.

But governments began relying on marriage licenses for a new purpose: as a way of distributing resources to dependents. The Social Security Act provided survivors’ benefits with proof of marriage. Employers used marital status to determine whether they would provide health insurance or pension benefits to employees’ dependents. Courts and hospitals required a marriage license before granting couples the privilege of inheriting from each other or receiving medical information.

In the 1950s, using the marriage license as a shorthand way to distribute benefits and legal privileges made some sense because almost all adults were married. Cohabitation and single parenthood by choice were very rare.

Today, however, possession of a marriage license tells us little about people’s interpersonal responsibilities. Half of all Americans aged 25 to 29 are unmarried, and many of them already have incurred obligations as partners, parents or both. Almost 40 percent of America’s children are born to unmarried parents. Meanwhile, many legally married people are in remarriages where their obligations are spread among several households.

Using the existence of a marriage license to determine when the state should protect interpersonal relationships is increasingly impractical. Society has already recognized this when it comes to children, who can no longer be denied inheritance rights, parental support or legal standing because their parents are not married.

As Nancy Polikoff, an American University law professor, argues, the marriage license no longer draws reasonable dividing lines regarding which adult obligations and rights merit state protection. A woman married to a man for just nine months gets Social Security survivor’s benefits when he dies. But a woman living for 19 years with a man to whom she isn’t married is left without government support, even if her presence helped him hold down a full-time job and pay Social Security taxes. A newly married wife or husband can take leave from work to care for a spouse, or sue for a partner’s wrongful death. But unmarried couples typically cannot, no matter how long they have pooled their resources and how faithfully they have kept their commitments.

Possession of a marriage license is no longer the chief determinant of which obligations a couple must keep, either to their children or to each other. But it still determines which obligations a couple can keep — who gets hospital visitation rights, family leave, health care and survivor’s benefits. This may serve the purpose of some moralists. But it doesn’t serve the public interest of helping individuals meet their care-giving commitments.

Perhaps it’s time to revert to a much older marital tradition. Let churches decide which marriages they deem “licit.” But let couples — gay or straight — decide if they want the legal protections and obligations of a committed relationship.

Stephanie Coontz, a professor of history at Evergreen State College, is the author of “Marriage, a History: How Love Conquered Marriage.”
 
If one already has a state license do you think it a good idea to get a state divorce to repudiate and cancel the state license?
 
No; not if your intent is obedience to the 'come out of her' concept.

Divorce is a "State-ordained" process. It acknowledges a claim of [unwarrantable] jurisdiction. Those who recognize the nature of that contract, and desire to be joined, but "only in Him", should understand the process (see a law dictionary for a start) of rescission, based on the recognition that the process was fraudulent, and thus void.
 
Cynstrom,

Well that requires a lot of factors to be considered. With experience in the legal system and thinking holistically with theology and law working together there comes to mind several points that would apply.

First, despite some who might claim otherwise, you cannot ever exit the "system" all together. It is virtually impossible because, like it or not, we live and exist inside of a legal covenant (or by law termed a contract) with a state and nation. There is no way to be totally free from all legal and governmental oversight in every single area of life. Even our Mayflower Pilgrims who came over in the boat arranged a legal covenant or oath or contract that made/formed a governmental authority. So when I talk about this I am not advocating anarchy or a no law or no government position. We need government in all three spheres of life: (1) the home (fathers and mothers who oversee the children with the father as head), (2) church (elders who oversee the disciples), and (3) civil government (local, state, and national overseers in three branches of government). In some cases civil government does have a legitimate right in regard to public interest to govern in sphere, 1 and 2. For example if a father murders his children or wife they should investigate and charge. If an elder in a church poisons someone then they should and must investigate and prosecute. But in non-physical or non-criminal matters, or where no civil law has been broken then sphere 3 should have limits and not have control beyond what is specifically stated by legislative law.

Second, now having gave that prefatory summary to set the stage that we should not attempt to be anarchical in our dealings with the state I move to the more direct points in question here. In this regard we have the idea of divorce in a "legal sense" and the idea in a theological sense.

In essence if one were to divorce in a legal sense they would not be in a spiritual or theological sense. Thus, this constitutes a bifurcation or split between the two fields of thought. I generally don't recommend ever getting a marriage license. But once one has been obtained this bifurcation needs to be known because of what happens next when one does go this route.

Third, if one goes the bifurcation route two fields of facts will always be known. The divorce proceeding will go through family court and then it will be filed that John Doe and Jane Doe were divorced on such and such date and time. This will then be posted in the file and even available to all through public records and even on the internet. Some simply don'tr care about this. They claim: "Well we know the truth and that is all that matters." Well that may not be totally accurate and probably should not be the attitude we take. How does that effect the image and our testimony not to care what type of life we present to others? Since we can't explain it to everyone who looks at the web in our community we may cause others to be confused or injured by this public knowledge that we have been divorced and it may cause one to loose credibility in the eyes of some who we may have otherwise been able to witness. Again, this is just a thought to consider. More could be said but the main point of consideration here is the "divorce" will always be attached to you as a stigma and it will be a part of your unstated testimony to any community member who sees it or knows about it and so we must at least think about that. It may not be the deciding factor but one must at least think about it and consider it.

Fourth, if one does still decide to go through with the divorce one should consider how the wife will feel about the process. Some in this organism here have indeed done this and everything went smooth for them. But some women have an attachment to this (maybe some men too) and it provides for them a level of comfort that there is an entity of oversight to their union if something were to go seriously wrong in the marital union. Though some despise government and hate family court judges such an extreme and ungodly attitude is not justified. Yes courts do err and so do we as well. Overall most family courts seek to be fair in their rulings when it comes to a break up of the marriage. Though they may be wrong in some of their theology and associated legal terms that conflict with theology, normally when both parties do indeed want out of their union most judges think logically about proper division of assets, etc. Some women are afraid and find comfort in knowing that with the license there is at least that amount of protection should the man go crazy. Especially for some women who do not work if the husband leaves them they would be with children, no job, and possibly out on the street if there was no legal union and the husband kicked them all out of the house or of the home went into foreclosure. Thus, at least with a license this can not be so easily done as the family court sphere can force by way of the sword if necessary that assets be divided and the woman and children be given some aid by the man, which is right and honorable. Or I suppose it could even work in reverse as well if the woman goes crazy, but generally speaking it is the woman who suffers. But if the "legal divorce" (but not in reality) occurs then there would most likely be assets divided in the court. If the woman turns over to the man everything then she may feel she no protection.

On the other hand, in the other perspective, some women find their total trust and confidence in the Lord that he will provide. Some, however, feel that it is the Lord working through a court that will be the provision. Neither position is necessarily wrong. God does work through the courts and outside of the courts because he is omnipresent and omnipotent in all of his universe. And again, we are talking about those who have already chosen this route, not those who have refrained from going this route from the beginning.

But in summary of point number four, because Christ commands us to not look to our own interests but also to the intersts of others (Phil. 2), then we must, if obedient to Christ talk this through with a wife and see how she feels. Would she be emotionally unstable if the court sphere of protection were removed? If she would then the man would need to find out why and work with his wife and maybe even examine himself to see if he acts in any way that would cause the wife to want that legal protection/covering. Some women deep down see the immaturity of their husbands and have a degree of uncertainty and insecurity in them. This process will often highlight that. And if a man is not careful and if he acts like a bulldog and plunges forward without due consideration it may very well wind up as a "real" legal and physical split in the union because the woman will not trust the man. And some men may have good reasons why she would not trust the man this much. If a man is hot headed, border-line abusive, etc etc, the discussion of removing the marriage license will probably scare the woman and cause her to shut down in this process.

Fifth, other provisions need to be in place if this is chosen. For one, there needs to be a term life policy and maybe even a disability policy in place to protect the woman. Once a legal divorce occurs the woman has no legal rights to land, retirement, and social security. This again is that bifurcation process I am talking about. The legal system splits the union and thus the man and woman both ought to put in place protective measures for each other. Term policies on both would be very good (should exist for all anyway despite this process) so if one dies there is a large sum of money paid out to the survivor (beneficiary). This would be a very good protective covering to help. This way this could make up at least a portion, or possibly even all of the lost compensation that would have been their if the legal union existed.

For example, suppose John Doe and Jane Doe legally divorce. Suppose as well that if one or the other died the survivor would have received the other's retirement income that amounted to let's say about 500,000. But if the legal divorce is done it would be nearly impossible to obtain this retirement income legally. There might be a way through common law statutes, and through a court remedy but it would not be easy and what person in their right mind would want to risk that with their loved ones? So, in place of that it would be wise to go and have term policies put in place for 500,000 or 1,000,000 so there would be that provision if one did die without the legal protections of a marriage license. Like I said, I think all should be doing this anyway as it makes good sense and is certainly a wise, loving, and considerate provision to make for one another.

Furthermore, I would also suggest that aqll wills and trusts be updated or even made. Term policies are monetary benefits. There needs to be a will and trust established so lands can be properly divided or granted upon death of any family member. With no legal marriage license this could pose a problem and the normal remedy through probate court would not apply or at least not easily apply. Thus, carefully defined wills and trusts should be made.

Sixth, the rescission note by Mark would be great if it were that easy. I've never heard of this being done in the legal courts field with marriage, at least not in the regions where I live and am familiar with the courts. It may work elsewhere but I'm not sure if it has been done or not. The reason it generally is a problem and will not work is because the civil government sees the marriage union not just as a contract (which is where it really should be legally placed) but as a union under the jurisdiction of family court, not civil court. We can argue all day and forever over that this should not be but for now it is and thus we have to work with what is not what should be. Thus, the legal divorce process in family court would be the route one almost has to go in this process.

Seventh, one needs to consider another option if one is already in this system. A man could take unto himself another wife and simply not have a license. This is done often and no harm occurs so long as everyone in the family is on board with it. But again, point number five about term policies and maybe even disability insurance policies would be good to have in place for any new wife coming in sense she would not have any survivor legal protections without such policies in place. Also, as noted above, wills and trusts should be updated and established to protect the new wife.

And once again, you'll may know of or even here comments from the unwise and foolish who might claim that there is no need to have insurance policies as "God will provide and will take care of me," but those who go that route are terribly immature and foolish, not to mention unloving and hypocritical. We all use some means to the end for protection in some sphereor another. We do not walk around depending upon supernatural divine intervention in miracles on a normal day to day basis. People choose to wear seatbelts sometimes for protection. People look both ways when crossing the street for protection of themselves and family. People use life-jackets on boats for personal protection. As I said above, there is a means to the end that God uses in protecting us. A life insurance policy and possibly a disability policy along with wills and trusts would be another means unto that end for the family. Thus, any incoming wife who has no legal protections would greatly benefit from this and to a portion of women this would show love and care and good foresight about the man who is leading the family. In short it would help them find comfort and security.

Any man who does not lead his family in this way is really missing the boat in a major way. To leave the family unprotected is not good spiritual leadership. The Lord has given us other means to protect the family and since we all as believers know that sin deceives we all know we are capable of doing dumb and wrongful things to our family. Thus, looking ahead shows we are living in step with the Spirit and applying theology to the real every day life scenarios where we live. Courts and marriage licenses are only ONE way or one MEANS unto the end of protection. If that route or that covering is removed other means need to be considered and put into place to show good faith effort in protecting the family in the spirit and method of love.

Those would be my first few thoughts on the matter if one is thinking about a legal divorce to get out of the government process.

Like I said, I generally don't now suggest for people to get a marriage license. But for those with one other ideas must or should be considered before simply jumping into court to get rid of it. That process may be good for some and not for others. For example, if a couple is in their 70's or 80's and they have a marriage license it may be too expensive to change now and get term policies and other policies in place to protect one another. They may simply need to remain as they are. But a younger couple may do this with less problems and with less expense. Yet on the other hand, suppose a couple is in the 70's or 80's and they have no license and no term policies because they can't get one. I would probably suggest they get a marriage license so some assets and retirement benefits could be legally transferred should or when one partner dies. A will could offset the land aspect and the savings, but retirement benefits may not be so easy to transfer depending upon the nature of where the funds are coming from. Some retirement set ups will only transfer to a legal spouse and non-member or those not legally attached may not be able to be named a beneficiaries to the retirement account.

I hope this helps you in some way think through some of the options here.

Dr. Allen
 
Sixth, the rescission note by Mark would be great if it were that easy. I've never heard of this being done in the legal courts field with marriage, at least not in the regions where I live and am familiar with the courts...Thus, the legal divorce process in family court would be the route one almost has to go in this process.
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Like I said, I generally don't now suggest for people to get a marriage license. But for those with one other ideas must or should be considered before simply jumping into court to get rid of it.


Let me be VERY clear that I am in NO WAY WHATSOEVER advising or even talking about going into Caesar's court system and arguing against Caesar's contract. Rescission is about serving lawful NOTICE that a given contract is void, and will be treated as such, to those who claim authority. There is a response period (typically sixty days, but it may vary by jurisdiction) after which the notice advises that unless a formal response to the contrary is received, the contract will be treated as rescinded (as if it never existed, since -- for reasons cited in the notice -- it was never lawful to begin with).

One does not plead to ENTER the jurisdiction of a court in order to argue that said court has no jurisdiction! (It is a bit like imagining the absurdity of a self-professed "tax protester" arguing in the IRS' "Tax Court" that they are an illegal entity, and he therefore doesn't have to pay. Good luck.)

But there is a more important point here. I am not an "anarchist", having lectured and taught via the radio for many years about Constitutional law, economics, and related topics -- not originally, but for a decade or so, from a specifically Scriptural perspective. But I submit there cannot be any doubt whatsoever that we are no longer a "nation of Law", but of men. Any doubt about that matter will be removed - again - when the smoke from the California "Proposition 8" and "gay marriage" licensing abomination finally clears.

When the Bible says (and not only in Revelation) that we are headed into a lawless time, when "no one will buy or sell" without Caesar/Satan's "mark", I contend that it describes a situation that those with "eyes to see" who have been watching the slide of a once-free Republic (which was NEVER a "democracy" - I challenge anyone to find any form of that word in the Declaration, Constitution, or Bill of Rights) into what the Founders called "Tyranny". Today it is referred to as a "public-private partnership", although it was described in the post-Depression era as a seven letter word starting with the letter "f".

First, despite some who might claim otherwise, you cannot ever exit the "system" all together.

Or indeed at ALL! At least, that is the clear intent. What were once called "God-given Rights" are now considered loopholes, to be closed. Rights like freedom of assembly, worship, speech, petition for redress, freedom from 'warrantless search and seizure', and to keep and bear arms are virtually meaningless.

Notice, for just two obvious examples, that the unwritten so-called "right to privacy" extends ONLY to the Sacrament of Abortion, but does NOT apply to your email, phone, bank, or private records, or even your ability to refuse the "choice" at an airport between a naked body scan or punitive full-body search. Recent news stories make it clear that bus, train, and subway stations are next, followed by roadside checks. The recently-created "right to marry" is in reality a 'right' to licensing, which confers both coercion of "recognition" in opposition to Biblical prohibitions and benefits under the "social safety net". Note that what both of these so-called "rights" have in common -- other than the fact that they are NOT enumerated in the Bill of Rights, while those which ARE so enumerated are no longer respected -- is that they are both utterly prohibited by Scripture.



The intent is that, by means of the twin pinchers of "precedent" and "presumption", ALL people are to be considered servants of "another master", whether they choose to submit or not. This is of course a apparent violation of Constitutional prohibitions and the Bible admonition to "choose this day Whom you will serve...", but that is a deception. The right to contract remains! And, as the Founders said so eloquently in the Declaration of Independence, so does the Right to withdraw consent from a government which, "when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism...having in direct object the establishment of an absolute tyranny..."

We have been told that we "cannot serve two masters."

The question has never been whether one can "exit the system all together". It is about Who we serve, and whether or not we recognize when it is time to "come out of" Babylon.
 
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