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The American State Religion

And I was cross posting initially as well, as my comment was more about considering the variation between ethnic groups and nations and where they become a state.

Like, I am the only male in my family tree to carry my great great grandfather's name. I already have one son and intend to have more. I believe it is my responsibility to grow the family God has blessed me with.

So ultimately I guess my question is: do I get to be a nation? ;)
I'm doing my best. See if you can catch up! We need all the help we can get.
 
This is true. My point was that, when there's a problem (like our current political issues here), my first gut reaction is "lobby politicians, make formal submissions, get involved with political organisations". When in reality, my first gut reaction should be to pray. My primary role is as a citizen of a heavenly Kingdom, and I am to take matters first to my King.
Then, it may be appropriate to also engage with the human authorities. By voting in a democracy, or otherwise in other systems (I wonder how many Christians in China are working up the ranks in the Communist party?). This is legitimate - but should not be our first response.
I have to continually relearn these priorities.
That I agree with. The post I was responding to sounded more like “we concern ourselves with Kingdom stuff instead of political/worldly stuff”.
 
There's a diagram he puts up during the talk that's hard to read, so I've posted it here for reference.
View attachment 789

I know I am late to this conversation, but I ran across this while searching for a proper place to make an entry, so I'm going to comment on just one aspect of this.

I find the diagram to be useful, although I think it's missing something, and my suspicion is that the main thing it's missing is 3-dimensionality, always a problem when mapping anything political, philosophical, metaphysical, etc. Imagine 3 axes instead of just 2, and, for one thing, some of the isms mentioned in the triangle would be found to be much more related to other isms than is portrayed in a 2-dimensional analysis.

It is also a pet peeve of mine that people conflate Darwinism with natural selection. Darwin re-presented natural selection as if it was his own idea, but it predated him and is the only aspect of his theory that really has any weight, because natural selection can be demonstrated to be verifiable in various manners. The rest of what Darwin added to the very legitimate concept of natural selection has all proven to be bunk, and were he alive today he would most certainly have to agree.

So, I would re-label the term on the right-hand side of the diagram as Natural Selection.

Just my two cents.
 
Now here's a change of subject. Don't have the time right now, or perhaps I would start a new thread. It is inspired by my reading of this Zero Hedge posting for today:

https://www.zerohedge.com/personal-finance/what-would-better-system-look

The problem with this line of thinking is inherent in the central rhetorical premise: take your homestead and multiply it by a thousand or a million. Every utopian dream makes the same mistake: assuming that everyone else has the same heart, forgetting that to take the time to envision utopia already makes one an outlier, dwarfed by the number of people who are simply out to get whatever they can get, a large portion of whom would step on their grandmothers to get ahead.

That is the beauty of a true free market before it gets polluted by pity-ism, which is always fueled by sociopathic manipulation, all the while masked by a conversation that falsely blames inequity on greedy money-grubbers. The parasites who operate at the bottom and in the shadows are greedier and more vile than any corporate chieftain. Absent the corruption of socialism and its cousins, the free market simply rewards people for looking out for themselves in a way that doesn’t step on the ability of others to do the same.

Life is not fair. Things are unequal. We are only equal in the eyes of God. The genius of our Founding Fathers was that they took that assumption and paired it with the free market and a mostly-decentralized government. Not perfection, but a better design than any utopian has ever imagined. We decry the inequity, but a wise man once asserted that, if we confiscated every last asset of every single human being and the redistributed all of those assets entirely equitably to every human being, it would take less than 2 weeks before some people ran out of money and less than 2 years before all the riches and all the poverty were possessed by the exact same people who possessed them before the confiscation. I would only add to that that it would take longer, but only because for a period of time pure anarchy would reign in the wake of what would occur if all the investors in the world had just been told that all the risks they had taken, all the sweat and financial equity they had invested, and all the rewards of having been generous enough to offer to the world their products or services could just be stolen from them like that – because after experiencing something like that, who would be fool enough to do it all over again, and without those who make the gift of taking those risks, etc., there would in very short order be absolutely nothing for anyone to buy with the assets they had so quickly and undeservedly acquired. It would even take some time before barter would assert itself as viable.

And those with the motivation and/or skills to create a viable economy would bide their time, waiting for some kind of meaningful assurance that such a confiscation would never again occur. My suspicion is that this would involve teaching their children to teach their children to teach their children that their children should be taught to wait until another reasonably trustworthy free market system arose again as the indication that it would once again be time to utilize those motivations or skills.

So please forgive me if I don’t welcome the possibility of being able to sit around a roundtable brainstorming what our next great new system would be like. We already have one. We just haven’t been properly respecting its parameters and have allowed it to be corrupted by elements of tyranny. It is not capitalism or our constitution that is corrupt; it has been corrupted by the true evil greed that hides behind the skirts of utopianism. Every example in our history of human government systems based on egalitarianism has degenerated into totalitarianism, partly because every one of those isms contains as a necessary component of its creation and implementation an assumption that those who came up with it represent a better class of people who will not only tell the rest of us unenlightened individuals how to live our lives but who will exempt themselves from the rules they create for us, compounded by the fact that they also exempt certain others from those rules (e.g., Google, Facebook, Twitter, etc., being exempted from having to be held accountable for the laws surrounding being public publishers, essentially giving them the monopolistic right to mold minds through the censoring of public discourse).

If I could wave a magic wand right now, I think I might choose to have a constitutional amendment passed that would prohibit our leaders from exempting themselves from the grand designs they create for the rest of us. But probably the better course would be to simply destroy the magic wand without using it, because if I used it I would then be setting myself above everyone else . . . and the temptation to use it over and over again would be far too alluring. So instead, given that I’ve seen no evidence that any utopian scheme so far has borne tasty fruit, I’m going to remain invested in the following: being prepared for the worst while maintaining faith that enough people will remain sane that the insanity will be overruled within the confines of the very reasonable system we already have in place.

It is not that the system is inadequate or even that it’s broken. We have simply allowed the system to be corrupted, but it’s also within our collective power to stand up and demand that the corruption be expelled. If enough people voice that sentiment and are loud enough in the exclaiming of it, they will have the power to heal this nation’s illnesses, because our Founders wisely provided us all the structure we need in our founding documents and the Bill of Rights.

It is why our enemies the Democrats, the media, the Deep State, the globalists, the anarchists, the communists and AOC's boyfriend are all sh**ting their pants in anticipation of the confirmation of Amy Coney Barrett. They are recognizing that they may actually have to go by the U.S. Constitution.
 
There's a diagram he puts up during the talk that's hard to read, so I've posted it here for reference. (NB - The green check marks indicating "politicians closest to me" were put there by the person I snagged this from, not me.)

View attachment 789

(In case anybody notices the green check marks and the legend that says "politicians closest to me", those are not my check marks, but those of the guy I borrowed this graphic from.)

Fascism is not a right-wing belief but instead is a socialist spectrum philosophy replete with the major hallmarks of socialism:

Central control of the economy
Direct government control of industry
Disrespect for individual rights and a focus on the state as expressing all collective rights.

It is a lie of the left that socialist fascism is a right-wing philosophy.

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/hitler-and-the-socialist-dream-1186455.html

(Excerpt below)

It is now clear beyond all reasonable doubt that Hitler and his associates believed they were socialists, and that others, including democratic socialists, thought so too. The title of National Socialism was not hypocritical. The evidence before 1945 was more private than public, which is perhaps significant in itself. In public Hitler was always anti-Marxist, and in an age in which the Soviet Union was the only socialist state on earth, and with anti-Bolshevism a large part of his popular appeal, he may have been understandably reluctant to speak openly of his sources. His megalomania, in any case, would have prevented him from calling himself anyone's disciple. That led to an odd and paradoxical alliance between modern historians and the mind of a dead dictator. Many recent analysts have fastidiously refused to study the mind of Hitler; and they accept, as unquestioningly as many Nazis did in the 1930s, the slogan "Crusade against Marxism" as a summary of his views. An age in which fascism has become a term of abuse is unlikely to analyse it profoundly.

His private conversations, however, though they do not overturn his reputation as an anti-Communist, qualify it heavily. Hermann Rauschning, for example, a Danzig Nazi who knew Hitler before and after his accession to power in 1933, tells how in private Hitler acknowledged his profound debt to the Marxian tradition. "I have learned a great deal from Marxism" he once remarked, "as I do not hesitate to admit". He was proud of a knowledge of Marxist texts acquired in his student days before the First World War and later in a Bavarian prison, in 1924, after the failure of the Munich putsch. The trouble with Weimar Republic politicians, he told Otto Wagener at much the same time, was that "they had never even read Marx", implying that no one who had failed to read so important an author could even begin to understand the modern world; in consequence, he went on, they imagined that the October revolution in 1917 had been "a private Russian affair", whereas in fact it had changed the whole course of human history! His differences with the communists, he explained, were less ideological than tactical. German communists he had known before he took power, he told Rauschning, thought politics meant talking and writing. They were mere pamphleteers, whereas "I have put into practice what these peddlers and pen pushers have timidly begun", adding revealingly that "the whole of National Socialism" was based on Marx.
 
I didn't see Christianity on the chart. I guess it must be off the charts!

Christianity is not a political system.

Also, I disagree with the premise of the political triangle that puts totalitarian systems on the right.

The political spectrum I prefer skips the left/right paradigm and instead looks like this:

FREE <----------------> LESS FREE <---------------> NOT FREE

Because all that really matters is whether or not you are free and to what degree are you free.
 
Christianity is not a political system.

Also, I disagree with the premise of the political triangle that puts totalitarian systems on the right.

The political spectrum I prefer skips the left/right paradigm and instead looks like this:

FREE <----------------> LESS FREE <---------------> NOT FREE

Because all that really matters is whether or not you are free and to what degree are you free.
The shortest summary I use of my political philosophy is "I just want to be left alone".
 
Well, I like being left alone, but I don't want the trouble makers to feel welcome.
 
If any of you know anyone who is at all open-minded, please do your best to get them to listen to Trump's nationwide radio rally going on right now on the Rush Limbaugh Show.

This is not one to miss.
 
If any of you know anyone who is at all open-minded, please do your best to get them to listen to Trump's nationwide radio rally going on right now on the Rush Limbaugh Show.

This is not one to miss.

I'm serious about this. I may listen to it all over again. This was the best Trump ever. I laughed my a** off on several occasions -- and cried almost as often; it was poignant and revealing.

If you missed it, go find it and listen -- and encourage any wavering friends to listen to it.
 
I'm really big on our Father being an entirely Sovereign God who directs everything. I'm close to some folks who 100% believe that believers should be 100% divorced from politics. For me, though, I so very thoroughly prefer to live in a land of freedom that I consider it my responsibility to vote, especially when the stakes are high.

I do not shirk from the admonition of Paul that we be ready to suffer for Christ, but that doesn't mean we have to entirely stand by and watch as the suffering is purposefully increased.
 
I'm really big on our Father being an entirely Sovereign God who directs everything. I'm close to some folks who 100% believe that believers should be 100% divorced from politics. For me, though, I so very thoroughly prefer to live in a land of freedom that I consider it my responsibility to vote, especially when the stakes are high.

I do not shirk from the admonition of Paul that we be ready to suffer for Christ, but that doesn't mean we have to entirely stand by and watch as the suffering is purposefully increased.
AMEN! SOLID GOLD BRO! You ROCKIN' IT!!!!!!
 
For me, though, I so very thoroughly prefer to live in a land of freedom
We have been given that privilege, but responsibility always goes hand-in-hand with being allowed privileges.
I don’t see this as a buffet: (I’ll take two helpings of privilege and none of the responsibility)

Another thought, we are to pray for our leaders but not vote? Naw, voting puts legs to our prayers.
 
Fascism is not a right-wing belief but instead is a socialist spectrum philosophy replete with the major hallmarks of socialism:

Central control of the economy
Direct government control of industry
Disrespect for individual rights and a focus on the state as expressing all collective rights.

It is a lie of the left that socialist fascism is a right-wing philosophy.

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/hitler-and-the-socialist-dream-1186455.html

(Excerpt below)

It is now clear beyond all reasonable doubt that Hitler and his associates believed they were socialists, and that others, including democratic socialists, thought so too. The title of National Socialism was not hypocritical. The evidence before 1945 was more private than public, which is perhaps significant in itself. In public Hitler was always anti-Marxist, and in an age in which the Soviet Union was the only socialist state on earth, and with anti-Bolshevism a large part of his popular appeal, he may have been understandably reluctant to speak openly of his sources. His megalomania, in any case, would have prevented him from calling himself anyone's disciple. That led to an odd and paradoxical alliance between modern historians and the mind of a dead dictator. Many recent analysts have fastidiously refused to study the mind of Hitler; and they accept, as unquestioningly as many Nazis did in the 1930s, the slogan "Crusade against Marxism" as a summary of his views. An age in which fascism has become a term of abuse is unlikely to analyse it profoundly.

His private conversations, however, though they do not overturn his reputation as an anti-Communist, qualify it heavily. Hermann Rauschning, for example, a Danzig Nazi who knew Hitler before and after his accession to power in 1933, tells how in private Hitler acknowledged his profound debt to the Marxian tradition. "I have learned a great deal from Marxism" he once remarked, "as I do not hesitate to admit". He was proud of a knowledge of Marxist texts acquired in his student days before the First World War and later in a Bavarian prison, in 1924, after the failure of the Munich putsch. The trouble with Weimar Republic politicians, he told Otto Wagener at much the same time, was that "they had never even read Marx", implying that no one who had failed to read so important an author could even begin to understand the modern world; in consequence, he went on, they imagined that the October revolution in 1917 had been "a private Russian affair", whereas in fact it had changed the whole course of human history! His differences with the communists, he explained, were less ideological than tactical. German communists he had known before he took power, he told Rauschning, thought politics meant talking and writing. They were mere pamphleteers, whereas "I have put into practice what these peddlers and pen pushers have timidly begun", adding revealingly that "the whole of National Socialism" was based on Marx.

Hitler was not a socialist: This article is a very good rebuttal: https://www.vox.com/2019/3/27/18283879/nazism-socialism-hitler-gop-brooks-gohmert

Quote from the article: " Hitler viewed socialism as a political organizing mechanism for the German people more broadly: a way of creating a “people’s community” — the volksgemeinschaftthat would bring everyday Germans (and businesspeople) together not based on their class but on their race and ethnicity. Thus, he would use the unifying aspects of “National Socialism” to get everyday Germans on board with the Nazi program while simultaneously negotiating with powerful businesses and the Junkers, industrialists and nobility, who would ultimately help Hitler gain total power over the German state."

The Nazis didn’t create the term “National socialism” themselves; both the left-leaning Czech National Socialist Party and right-leaning Austrian National socialism movement predated the Nazi party in Germany. The term was added to the party’s title in 1920—turning the German Worker’s Party into the National Socialist German Worker’s Party. This, along with their manifesto, was done to appeal to the working classes. Socialism, for supporters of the National Socialist German Workers’ Party, appeared to substitute Marx’s idea of class war with a race one.

Hitler worked closely with industrialists—in 1933 he held a meeting with a number of German industrial figures and gained their trust by speaking of the communist threat. In return, they gave millions of Reichmarks to fund the Nazi party in the upcoming elections. Many developed close relationships with the Nazi regime and flourished under the ideology—the Krupp family supplied Germany with arms during World War Two, readily dismissed Jewish employees, and it's then head Alfried Krupp joined the Nazi party in 1938.

Hitler also suppressed trade unions and refused to give the homes of German princes to the people, as he felt this would move the party towards communism.

Also some more good articles:

https://www.jacobinmag.com/2020/10/nazi-socialism-rand-paul-strasser-hitler

https://www.jacobinmag.com/2014/04/capitalism-and-nazism
 
Hitler was not a socialist: This article is a very good rebuttal: https://www.vox.com/2019/3/27/18283879/nazism-socialism-hitler-gop-brooks-gohmert

Quote from the article: " Hitler viewed socialism as a political organizing mechanism for the German people more broadly: a way of creating a “people’s community” — the volksgemeinschaftthat would bring everyday Germans (and businesspeople) together not based on their class but on their race and ethnicity. Thus, he would use the unifying aspects of “National Socialism” to get everyday Germans on board with the Nazi program while simultaneously negotiating with powerful businesses and the Junkers, industrialists and nobility, who would ultimately help Hitler gain total power over the German state."

The Nazis didn’t create the term “National socialism” themselves; both the left-leaning Czech National Socialist Party and right-leaning Austrian National socialism movement predated the Nazi party in Germany. The term was added to the party’s title in 1920—turning the German Worker’s Party into the National Socialist German Worker’s Party. This, along with their manifesto, was done to appeal to the working classes. Socialism, for supporters of the National Socialist German Workers’ Party, appeared to substitute Marx’s idea of class war with a race one.

Hitler worked closely with industrialists—in 1933 he held a meeting with a number of German industrial figures and gained their trust by speaking of the communist threat. In return, they gave millions of Reichmarks to fund the Nazi party in the upcoming elections. Many developed close relationships with the Nazi regime and flourished under the ideology—the Krupp family supplied Germany with arms during World War Two, readily dismissed Jewish employees, and it's then head Alfried Krupp joined the Nazi party in 1938.

Hitler also suppressed trade unions and refused to give the homes of German princes to the people, as he felt this would move the party towards communism.

Also some more good articles:

https://www.jacobinmag.com/2020/10/nazi-socialism-rand-paul-strasser-hitler

https://www.jacobinmag.com/2014/04/capitalism-and-nazism

Socialism is just one of a variety of flavors of syrup fed to citizens to persuade them that tyranny will taste even better.

I remain in agreement with the main point of @MeganC's assertions: neither fascism nor any other form of command-control government is properly labeled as right-wing. Doing so is just another smoke screen on the way to totalitarianism, which is the sole wet-dream territory of The Left. Projecting their disdain for their fellow human beings and their desire to micro-manage everyone's affairs is the hallmark of leftists and is in full flower in recent times. I do recognize that Hitler has been somewhat over-demonized, but making excuses for him is a distraction.
 
We already have one.

We HAD one. That system you correctly credit the founding fathers before was corrupted and modified by the 19th century robber barons. What we have now is entirely different. We only think we're free.

Hitler was not a socialist

This is a matter of considerable modern debate. My understanding is they saw themselves as neither left nor right, but rather a 3rd way that took on aspects of both. But it's hard to have these discussions as the terms are so emotional laden and historically confusing. For example...

neither fascism nor any other form of command-control government is properly labeled as right-wing.

To be frank left and right are mostly meaningless terms. But it originally referred to the monarchist faction. A very much command-control form of government.
 
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