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The Enemy of MY Family

cnystrom said:
If your wife loves you she will not hold you to a vow that is based on a fraud. If you love your wife you are not going to even consider voiding the marriage
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The cultural disenfranchisement aside, this is the other issue that I think I’m seeing clearly with this topic.

How many stories have we heard of wives that recognize and acknowledge the Scriptural truth of poly, and yet refuse to support their husband in any way towards a biblical family model (poly or mono). So often, the first wife is cast as the victim of her husbands new understanding and then the focus is more on soothing her as the victim of vow fraud, and never acknowledging the massive offense that the entire culture has perpetrated against her husband.

If the same situation were cast in the light of a monetary inheritance, most wives would be the first and loudest to decry any party that had perpetrated her husbands disenfranchisement of what is by right his.

Caution!!! You cant unsee this!!!

At what point does the wife become complicit? Obviously not at the ceremony. But what about the point that she recognizes that its a Scripturally valid construct?
 
cnystrom said:
You could, but I think if you are being so overtly legal in your marriage you are already defeated. If your wife loves you she will not hold you to a vow that is based on a fraud. If you love your wife you are not going to even consider voiding the marriage simply because she is human and can not keep her side perfectly. Heaven forbid! You need to work out your relationship with grace, love and forgiveness for each other. You want to be on the same team and help each other to be successful.

To be perfectly honest I can not even remember exactly what vows we spoke when we got married. Traditional ones I assume. But all along we have always wanted to have a marriage that glorifies God. You do not have that by doing the minimum of keeping your vows. You do that by having a relationship that reflects the living relationship of Christ and the church. We have always wanted and based our marriage on what is taught in the Bible. With this understanding, I think it is easier to transition when one has a new understandng of what God's will is, and what God expects from marriage, etc. It is not really about what we said 35 years ago. It is about what the Bible says today. If we are both following the Lord and the teachings of the Bible then we go down the path together and face the challenges that we find together as we go.
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No disagreements here. The vows are personally a non-issue for us; but in the situation where a woman doesn't have that attitude things change and I'm thinking through all the shades of the issue.

Verifyveritas76 said:
How many stories have we heard of wives that recognize and acknowledge the Scriptural truth of poly, and yet refuse to support their husband in any way towards a biblical family model (poly or mono). So often, the first wife is cast as the victim of her husbands new understanding and then the focus is more on soothing her as the victim of vow fraud, and never acknowledging the massive offense that the entire culture has perpetrated against her husband.
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Selfish vs. selfless
 
cnystrom said:
You could, but I think if you are being so overtly legal in your marriage you are already defeated. If your wife loves you she will not hold you to a vow that is based on a fraud. If you love your wife you are not going to even consider voiding the marriage simply because she is human and can not keep her side perfectly. Heaven forbid! You need to work out your relationship with grace, love and forgiveness for each other. You want to be on the same team and help each other to be successful.

To be perfectly honest I can not even remember exactly what vows we spoke when we got married. Traditional ones I assume. But all along we have always wanted to have a marriage that glorifies God. You do not have that by doing the minimum of keeping your vows. You do that by having a relationship that reflects the living relationship of Christ and the church. We have always wanted and based our marriage on what is taught in the Bible. With this understanding, I think it is easier to transition when one has a new understandng of what God's will is, and what God expects from marriage, etc. It is not really about what we said 35 years ago. It is about what the Bible says today. If we are both following the Lord and the teachings of the Bible then we go down the path together and face the challenges that we find together as we go.
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Beautiful, Chris. Can’t like this enough.
 
cnystrom said:
You could, but I think if you are being so overtly legal in your marriage you are already defeated. If your wife loves you she will not hold you to a vow that is based on a fraud. If you love your wife you are not going to even consider voiding the marriage simply because she is human and can not keep her side perfectly. Heaven forbid! You need to work out your relationship with grace, love and forgiveness for each other. You want to be on the same team and help each other to be successful.

To be perfectly honest I can not even remember exactly what vows we spoke when we got married. Traditional ones I assume. But all along we have always wanted to have a marriage that glorifies God. You do not have that by doing the minimum of keeping your vows. You do that by having a relationship that reflects the living relationship of Christ and the church. We have always wanted and based our marriage on what is taught in the Bible. With this understanding, I think it is easier to transition when one has a new understandng of what God's will is, and what God expects from marriage, etc. It is not really about what we said 35 years ago. It is about what the Bible says today. If we are both following the Lord and the teachings of the Bible then we go down the path together and face the challenges that we find together as we go.
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Why would repenting of a single particular part of the vow, made rashly, mean nullifying the entire marriage? O.o I would agree, how stupid to undo the whole thing. Taking the Gibeonite situation as an example, there is definitely a precedent where you can adjust or 'redo' a rash vow while retaining the spirit of it.

The fact is a rash vow based on a fraud, as you say, is wrong. So somewhere along the line, whichever path one chooses, it is forgiven, right? Either God has already forgiven, He forgave at the moment it was made foolishly, we find out and ask forgiveness, or the person we vowed it to forgives us themselves (like Joseph forgiving his brothers' vow to have the cup thief die). So in your ideal example, the wife would forgive the vow the second that knowledge comes about. In my case, I had to show her God's desire and provision, Biblically, for rash vows to be forgiven before she realized she needed to forgive them as well. So, whichever way one gets there, God is gracious :)
 
cnystrom said:
You could, but I think if you are being so overtly legal in your marriage you are already defeated. If your wife loves you she will not hold you to a vow that is based on a fraud. If you love your wife you are not going to even consider voiding the marriage simply because she is human and can not keep her side perfectly. Heaven forbid! You need to work out your relationship with grace, love and forgiveness for each other. You want to be on the same team and help each other to be successful.

To be perfectly honest I can not even remember exactly what vows we spoke when we got married. Traditional ones I assume. But all along we have always wanted to have a marriage that glorifies God. You do not have that by doing the minimum of keeping your vows. You do that by having a relationship that reflects the living relationship of Christ and the church. We have always wanted and based our marriage on what is taught in the Bible. With this understanding, I think it is easier to transition when one has a new understandng of what God's will is, and what God expects from marriage, etc. It is not really about what we said 35 years ago. It is about what the Bible says today. If we are both following the Lord and the teachings of the Bible then we go down the path together and face the challenges that we find together as we go.
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BAMSKA!!! :) VERY well said!
 
In this thread we have been concentrating on how the "monogamy only" lie affects men and their vows, but there is a huge negative impact on women, too. For example, who are trained by culture to believe that they have to have their own man or their is soemeething wrong with them. And if by change they clear that hurdle they will be advised to blow up their own families and even get a divorce from any many that might have another woman. True story. I have shared this before but lastly, even if they have never been married, "monogamy only" may prevent them from what they want most if they can not make the adjustment. I have a good Christian friend, from grade school, loves children and became a teacher, always wanted to be married. Has sad posts on Facebook saying she is available. We get along great and I have offered, but she can not wrap her mind around it. Can not make that leap of faith to be different. Sadly condmemned to live alone the rest of her years.
 
cnystrom said:
In this thread we have been concentrating on how the "monogamy only" lie affects men and their vows, but there is a huge negative impact on women, too.
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So true.
At least the Catholic Church gave them an alternative, something that the protestants failed to take with them while retaining waaay too much other junk.
 
steve said:
At least the Catholic Church gave them an alternative, something that the protestants failed to take with them while retaining waaay too much other junk.
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Anyone familiar of the history on that? When the reformation happened people poured out of the convents and monasteries. But I'm not sure why. Why they left. Why they didn't form new ones. Why they didn't just make them Protestant when those regions converted en masse.
 
rockfox said:
Anyone familiar of the history on that? When the reformation happened people poured out of the convents and monasteries. But I'm not sure why. Why they left. Why they didn't form new ones. Why they didn't just make them Protestant when those regions converted en masse.
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Good question. I didn’t know that part.
Possibly they intrinsically knew that it wasn’t the highest way, but they didn’t see the replacement for it.
 
rustywest4 said:
Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you Saint Steve of three wives! :cool:
... wait... I think “Cardinal Steve” or maybe even “Bishop Steve” sound bad ass! :rolleyes:

#PopeSteve
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:eek::eek::eek::confused:
Not only NO!
But Nathan Hale NO!!!!!
 
lol

Been watching a tv show with the fam lately, and something that just keeps coming up as blatantly obvious... you know how many problems of western society, relationally, would be solved if poly hadn't been demonized? It wouldn't stop guys who just want casual sex from sleeping around or abandoning wives, obviously, but for those who aren't like that, but then find themselves in love with and desiring another woman... instead of abandoning their first wife or just sleeping around with another woman, they'd just take another wife. It's really mind boggling how many of the problems in modern relationships are related to this. All that 'love triangle' nonsense... uhg. Just makes me sick. "And so, upon discovering poly, all romance movies were solved forever. The end."
 
EternalDreamer said:
lol

Been watching a tv show with the fam lately, and something that just keeps coming up as blatantly obvious... you know how many problems of western society, relationally, would be solved if poly hadn't been demonized? It wouldn't stop guys who just want casual sex from sleeping around or abandoning wives, obviously, but for those who aren't like that, but then find themselves in love with and desiring another woman... instead of abandoning their first wife or just sleeping around with another woman, they'd just take another wife. It's really mind boggling how many of the problems in modern relationships are related to this. All that 'love triangle' nonsense... uhg. Just makes me sick. "And so, upon discovering poly, all romance movies were solved forever. The end."
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That’ll preach bro!
Here here!
 
Vv 76, you said, "Except me!"
Well, my first wife is one of those woman who sentimentally keeps things like the pieces of card we wrote our marriage vows on and to my delight, God in His mercy and grace kept me from making reference to anything MO. It has spared me from much heartache and I thank Him constantly for His amazing kindness. So I add, Except me too. Shalom
 
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andrew said:
Totally changes your relationship to modern entertainment culture....
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Yeah.. you look at the TV or movie screen and scream, 'marry 'em BOTH, you idiot!'
 
The TV show manifest has a perfect subplot for polygyny. A group of people are taken forward in time by 5 1/2 years. One woman found her best friend had married her fiancé during that 5 1/2 year time frame. Both in love with the same guy, both women are best friends. What a great scenario and they are using it to cause a rift between the two women. A polygamous relationship would cause better ratings if the producers would just think outside the box.
 
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