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Titus 2

Wow - what a topic. And such excellent posts from so many folks.

I was raised in the church by a loving and Godly family. Even so, I too was cheated and lied to - although I'm sure, not by intention. I too was taught that polygamy was sinful. I was taught that the scriptures could not be taken literally and that many things Paul said were based on his own bias' and needed o be re-interpreted to fit the modern world. The church I went to as a teenager even has a woman pastor now. The denomination has embraced ecumenism and teaches that religions such as the mormans and muslims worship the same God we do. Needless to say, I am no loner a member of that denomination.

I think that such ambiguous teaching results in weak, wishy-washy Christians. I know it did me. The only good things I learned from it was that Christ is my savior, and that there are certain rules in life that we must adhere to. I grew up understanding that He had died for my sins, that He came to teach us what loves really means.

Because my foundation was weak, during college and for many, many years thereafter, I wandered. Being taught that the Bible had to be interpreted in light of modern society, it was easy to accept the concept of relativism. It wasn't until I attended a Bible believing church that the light dawned. The Bible, in it's original writing, MUST be taken literally. One cannot pick and choose to believe from it. One must accept the whole package and try to live accordingly. Since that epiphany, my whole outlook has changed. I no longer wander spiritually. If I feel lost. I have a guide to turn to.

That being said;
Fairlight, I think you must be careful that those older women are able to teach the younger women. By that I mean that if they are already not accepting that it is their responsibility, they my not be grounded in the scriptures enough to be able to properly teach. Just as the church I grew up in led me astray in many ways, so might the teaching of those older women affect the younger. Sometime it takes someone, who may not be very old themselves, but who is mature in the Word, to properly mentor others. Those are the ones you want to mentor the young women. If you know of such women, you might approach them individually and discuss having them be mentors to the young women.

Just my thoughts. Prayer may also help you to find the solution you need. I will pray for you.

Dave
 
This is a fantastic thread. Too good to lie dormant. Let's put some feet to these ideas and get something started in our own corners of the world. It doesn't have to be big, but consistent. If you have ever seen the Colorado river and the Grand Canyon, you know what I mean. Ladies the ball is in your court on this one.
 
Being taught that the Bible had to be interpreted in light of modern society, it was easy to accept the concept of relativism. It wasn't until I attended a Bible believing church that the light dawned. The Bible, in it's original writing, MUST be taken literally. One cannot pick and choose to believe from it. One must accept the whole package and try to live accordingly.
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What a statement, and yes indeed this is so true.

The following steps help ward off relativism:

(1) Go back to find the original definition of the words in the Bible

(2) Take the words in their plain historical meaning and do not allegorize the words or phrases.

(3) Integrity demands that we not just believe it but that we also obey it.

One of the greatest threats to any family is when men lead by pragmatisim. Leaders are doing this all over country today. People make decisions based upon how many people it pleases. In other words, people have become people pleasers. Pastors, fathers, spiritual leaders, politicians, CEO's etc, make decisions based upon whatever feels right or in an effort to retain people and popularity when the goal is to make decisions based upon biblical principles and precedent and biblical law.

Principled driven men are rare these days and men who flip, flop, flounder, and flow with the faithless are fakes but are in high numbers.

But by God's grace, and with some conflict and confrontation with the sissified men, a new class of men will arise, a breed of men who are not willing to sacrifice integrity for the sake of pleasing the apostates. A new breed of fathers, heads, and leaders will arise and these men will not be afraid to tell people no, they will not be afraid to discipline, disciple, and defend the precious truths of the Word of God with the gospel being on the forefront of everything they do.

Older men will instill in younger men values, orthodox doctrine that is indestructible, and older women will train younger women to be respectable, feminine, and precious queens. Of course, as this occurs sissified men and feminist women will be exposed for who they really are in that process. Oh pray for the day when more and more men and women will rise to the sacred call to wave the flag of the gospel and truth of the family without compromise.
 
Dr. K.R. Allen said:
men who flip, flop, flounder, and flow with the faithless are fakes
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Aside from my agreement with the posts on this thread, I had to compliment you, Keith on the alliteration. "Men who flip, flop, flounder, and flow are faithless fakes." Really good!
 
Fairlight said:
This is a pet peeve of mine within the church !
Why AREN'T the older women coming along side the younger women and teaching them ?? I was once in charge of the single's group in a church I attended. It was mostly comprised of young, single, 20 'something' girls. I decided that I would try to get the older women in the church to come to our meetings. The younger women were willing but when I approached the older women in the church, they were polite but they made it pretty clear that they weren't interested in fellowshipping with the younger girls. They gave me every excuse in the book why they couldn't attend our functions. They had their own group and that was fine with them. The truth was some of the young girls really needed someone to mentor them.

I have run into this problem more than once. The older women seem to just want to do their own thing and stay within their own group. I have only encountered a few women who have been willing to follow the Biblical admonition in Titus 2. This is particularly sad considering that many young women in my church weren't raised in a Christian home. Who is going to teach these young women, if the older Christian women won't do it ?
Blessings,
Fairlight
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Maybe the older women had no one to mentor them when they were young.
 
Are woman allowed to be employed outside the house or does Titus 2:5 prohibit that except when another command would over-ride that prohibition.
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There is no statement in Scripture that forbids a woman from earning income. This can be done in the home or out of the home. In fact we have both examples in Scripture. Deborah was a judge and the Proverbs 31 woman seems to have earned income in the home. It boils down to three key issues:

(1) The desire of the lady's head.
(2) The motive for doing whatever is done for work.
(3) Understanding that all work done is for the glory of God and that the lady is still under her head no matter whom she might work for, i.e. it is like contracting out the skills of a household member into the workforce for the overall good of the family.
 
I'm not so sure that God would have given so much ink to this if it wasn't relevant:

Proverbs 31:10-31 An excellent wife who can find? She is far more precious than jewels. The heart of her husband trusts in her, and he will have no lack of gain. She does him good, and not harm, all the days of her life. She seeks wool and flax, and works with willing hands. She is like the ships of the merchant; she brings her food from afar. She rises while it is yet night and provides food for her household and portions for her maidens. She considers a field and buys it; with the fruit of her hands she plants a vineyard. She dresses herself with strength and makes her arms strong. She perceives that her merchandise is profitable. Her lamp does not go out at night. She puts her hands to the distaff, and her hands hold the spindle. She opens her hand to the poor and reaches out her hands to the needy. She is not afraid of snow for her household, for all her household are clothed in scarlet. She makes bed coverings for herself; her clothing is fine linen and purple. Her husband is known in the gates when he sits among the elders of the land. She makes linen garments and sells them; she delivers sashes to the merchant. Strength and dignity are her clothing, and she laughs at the time to come. She opens her mouth with wisdom, and the teaching of kindness is on her tongue. She looks well to the ways of her household and does not eat the bread of idleness. Her children rise up and call her blessed; her husband also, and he praises her: "Many women have done excellently, but you surpass them all." Charm is deceitful, and beauty is vain, but a woman who fears the LORD is to be praised. Give her of the fruit of her hands, and let her works praise her in the gates.
 
Whether or not a woman should work outside the home is a struggle for many couples and families. The Bible does have instructions regarding the role of women. In Titus 2:3-4, Paul gives these instructions as to how a young married woman is to be trained by older women: “...train the younger women to love their husbands and children, to be self-controlled and pure, to be busy at home, to be kind, and to be subject to their husbands so that no one will malign the Word of God.” In this passage, the Bible is clear that when children are in the picture, that is where the young woman's responsibility lies. The older women are to teach the younger women and to live lives that glorify God. Keeping these responsibilities in mind, an older woman's time can be spent at the Lord's leading and her discretion.

Proverbs 31 speaks of “a wife of noble character.” Starting at verse 11, the writer praises this woman as one who does everything in her power to care for her family. She works hard to keep her house and her family in order. Verses 16, 18, 24, and 25 show that she is so industrious that she also moonlights with a cottage industry that provides additional income for her family. This woman's motivation is important in that her business activities were the means to an end, not an end in themselves. She was providing for her family, not furthering her career, or working to keep up with the neighbors. Her employment was secondary to her true calling—the stewardship of her husband, children, and home.

The Bible nowhere forbids a woman from working outside the home. However, the Bible does teach what a woman’s priorities are to be. If working outside the home causes a woman to neglect her children and husband, then it is wrong for that woman to work outside the home. If a Christian woman can work outside the home and still provide a loving, caring environment for her children and husband, then it is perfectly acceptable for her to work outside the home. With those principles in mind, there is freedom in Christ. Women who work outside the home should not be condemned, and neither should women who focus on the stewardship of the home be treated with condescension.
 
said:
Are woman allowed to be employed outside the house or does Titus 2:5 prohibit that except when another command would over-ride that prohibition.
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said:
There is no statement in Scripture that forbids a woman from earning income. This can be done in the home or out of the home.
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Is a woman forbidden from leaving the home how could she be allowed to leave the home and earn income?

If A is forbidden then A and B would be forbidden because to do A and B you must do A.

how can she be a keeper at home if she does not keep at home?

[To be] discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.

http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lex ... 3626&t=KJV

http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lex ... 3624&t=KJV
 
It seems that keepers at home would indicate that she is responsible to keep the home maintained. I know that traditionally many women take care of the general cleaning while the husband tends to take care of the maintenance of the home. Some women like yard work and some men do as well, so the yard work could be shared or if one likes to do it let them. The passage you refer to is simply reminding women not to neglect their duties and reminding them of what they are, but doesn't seem to imply that women cannot leave the home to work. What if the husband was unable to work? Would this mean that he could not help out around the home as he is able and a wife could go to work so that the family would have an income?
 
I heard in Korea there is a teeter totter like game where the women tried to jump high enough to see over the barricade and outside the confines of the area they were not permitted to leave?

It is supposedly based on the days when women were not allowed to leave a certain region enclosed by barricades.

So it would seem that there has been a long-standing tradition in some cultures to forbid women from going to or leaving certain places at certain times.........
 
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