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TONGUES?

So...If I am undertanding all of this......the jest is from what I gather most everyone here is saying is this.......If I do not speak in tongues or some other thing simular to speaking in tongues, then I am not baptized with the holy spirit....is this correct???.......

Then if that were to be correct then in essence I am not saved because I do not have the baptism of the holy spirit for I do not nor have not spoken in tongues or some other thing simular to speaking in tongues.............
 
There are two things being combined here. One is the indwelling of the Holy Spirit... the other is the outpouring of the Holy Spirit. These two should not be confused. Demons even do the same thing. Spirits indwell, and outpour. They don't always cause prophecy or some miraculous thing.

All believers have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Jesus imparted that to the disciples before He left. However, He told them to wait until they receive power from on high. That power that came upon them is known as outpouring. It is not required for salvation. You don't even have to believe in it to have it. We are each gifted according to God's will. I have not been given of the outwardly visible gifts. My mother has. We are both saved. God gives according to His will. He is not a gumball machine. In the words of Paul, "Do all speak in tongues? Do all prophecy?" No, they don't, and they don't have to. Desire such gifts, but they are God's to give. Like healing, you can request, but His will shall be done in the end.
 
Nice explanation, Sadan.

Years ago I had the experience I've mentioned before (hmm; perhaps even this thread, although some time back) about speaking in tongues and some demonic manifestations (imitations, if you will). As a result, I recall praying sincerely that if God were ever to so gift me, that it be specifically with the Hebrew language; in part, because there would be no doubt about it.

In hindsight, I don't know if that was a good idea or not -- and at this point I no longer try to second-guess. I do know that sometimes I now pray in Hebrew with a sense that it is what God would have me say, although I recognize that the phrasing and words are things I have arguably learned "naturally". I'm thankful nevertheless, and appreciate that He hasn't (yet) made it too easy...


Blessings,
Mark
 
Sadan,
Great answer and is one of which I was hoping someone would post, for I agree with you totally.

I posted the post that I did in order for some to see what others may be thinking. There are some on this board that may feel that a person cannot be saved unless they speak in tongues where others, such as my self, think that speaking in tongues is not that important in ones salvation or walk with the Lord. That it does not take the speaking in tongues to prove one is baptized in the Holy spirit. If memory serves me correct, speaking in tongues is the LEAST of the gifts the Lord grants. So if speaking in tongues makes one feel closer to the Lord, that is great.....but those of us who don't or desire to do so should not be made to feel that we are a lesser Christian or that we are not even saved at all..............Just a general statement is all and not saying anyone is doing so to members of this family.......Just reminding all that we do all come from different denominational backgrounds and have different understandings of the Lords word but we ALL serve the same God :D .
 
There are actually many views on this site, so in order not to blow this board apart, I will refrain from my personal view. I will say, however, that my view is probably best explained in the book: "Speaking in Tongues, A Doctrinal Perspective", by Don Barnett. If anyone would like to discuss this off line, I am more than willing at anytime.
 
Personally, I don't have the prophetic style of tongues where one would speak out in some setting that is accompanied by interpretation. I have at various times prophesied but in no way consider myself to have the gift of prophecy and certainly not the office. The way I use praying in tongues is that when I am engaged in prayer my "default setting" is to pray in tongues. (I am speaking on a private or intimate setting basis at the moment) This seems to "ramp up my spirit" or "keep it ramped and engaged" if you will and really in-tune with the intermingled spiritual faculties of our combinant personhood. (He who joins himself with the Lord is one spirit.)

This leads to the "bubbling up" of insightful directed prayer relating to the circumstances or a shift in spirit lead direction of the session. Typically, this ping-pongs back and forth between prayer with the "mind unfruitful" and "with understanding". It at least seems as though when in the "unfruitful" stage, it is not that the mind is not beneficial but is rather receiving it's "fruit" from the spirit which it then soon puts out, by choice of course, in the form of new understanding or direction. The mind in this circumstance being both a "receiving station" and "checkpoint" to ensure alignment with the Scriptures.

In mixed settings, I try to restrict the process to prayer with understanding mainly to avoid the need for explanation. The nice thing is when one communes in this way with sufficient regularity, you just tend to be ready "whether in season or not" also there are times throughout the process where the direction you receive is to just simply be still in a certain pregnant silence.

This is not meant to be a proposal of method or a doctrinal assertion but rather just a glimpse into how things work out in my own life and practice so far and would categorize this to be primarily of the Jude 20 sort.

Sincerely,

Curtis

P.S. I have no reason to suspect that personally I am praying in any known language and at times it seems to take on a different character. The "fruit" would be challenging to test with known scientific methods. I just know that it works well for me and I would not want to lose it.
 
Curtis said:
This leads to the "bubbling up" of insightful directed prayer relating to the circumstances or a shift in spirit lead direction of the session. Typically, this ping-pongs back and forth between prayer with the "mind unfruitful" and "with understanding". It at least seems as though when in the "unfruitful" stage, it is not that the mind is not beneficial but is rather receiving it's "fruit" from the spirit which it then soon puts out, by choice of course, in the form of new understanding or direction. The mind in this circumstance being both a "receiving station" and "checkpoint" to ensure alignment with the Scriptures.

In mixed settings, I try to restrict the process to prayer with understanding mainly to avoid the need for explanation. The nice thing is when one communes in this way with sufficient regularity, you just tend to be ready "whether in season or not" also there are times throughout the process where the direction you receive is to just simply be still in a certain pregnant silence.
Curtis
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I must say that your experiential explanation of tongues and praying/being with your Lord was very nice. It is much as I view the subject and experience also. Too often we study our Lord without experiencing the communion of spirit. It is remarkable to me that Christians can talk ‘baby talk’ to a two month old, and find that it is a good way to express love to the little munchkin, but balk at sounds that are spontaneous to the worship moment you are having with the Lord. Musicians love the structure of chords, notes, and how rewarding playing music with other musicians is. But even more they relish the impromptu musical ‘run’ or chord progression that they receive while playing, without prior practice. Music and loving a baby are good sounds that require very little or no English. I also loved your phrase “pregnant silence” Truly, we can only birth words of value when our Lord has first placed their seed (which may grow into meaning and spiritual fruit) in our hearts and harvested by our tongue to edify ourselves and those that listen for the chimes of a loving Lord. Even though many Christians do not believe in tongues, I always believe that every Christian’s spirit relishes the idea of spiritual dance and turnings, and joyful praise to our Father. It is as natural as wind beneath the wings of a dove.
 
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