Prayer request Turmoil Ahead

[Joleneakamama]

If this is his focus, he isn’t a pastor.

I remember a day in the Phoenix valley when the worthlessness of most churches really hit me. There seemed to be a church on every corner, some serving specific languages, yet being aware of the moral condition of our country my prevailing impression was they were obviously unable to stop the moral decay. Later I heard an audio by Ted Weiland that explained a lot of what I felt that day and nailed it down. You can find it at Mission to Israel and the name on that message is "Could you be a disciple of baal and not know it."
Most pastors, polishittans, most police and other law enforcement, most doctors....and many others in less influential positions are exactly that, disciples of Baal.
Many people identifying as christians are unaware of which value system their hearts are aligned and calibrated with.

The reality is that polygyny is one of those things that forces many to evaluate their position and check themselves.

Even being willing to discuss it can help YHWH change hearts. Especially if we stay humble and show love.

I'm encouraged that a father in law was willing to admit he handled things imperfectly. That is huge and says a lot about his strength.

Praying you always lean on The Rock as you weather life's storms. I'm sure other conversations will happen.

 

[MeganC]

The reality is that polygyny is one of those things that forces many to evaluate their position and check themselves.

As someone who was not religious when I got into poly I seriously agree with you. Choosing this life forced me to cut ties with my old life, it caused me to start living a more Christian lifestyle, and I discovered faith.

It is hard for me to put this into words so forgive me if I am not getting it all right.

Having my worldly values challenged by living a different life and seeing the virtues of this life made me see the perversion and sickness of the modern secular world.

I think the modern secular world is much like the proverbial frog in the pot. The world and its culture has become so pervasive that people don't even see it anymore. They don't see the destruction it causes. They don't see the damage it causes in their own lives.

Then you get outside of that culture and you start living a better life without all of the destruction the popular culture wants us to consume and your life improves. And then the people in the popular culture see you as weird because you have a loving family, you're not taking all the drugs the TV says you should be taking, you're not buying the latest phone, you're not buried in debt, and you're happy.

They're miserable.

I know we all don't agree with everyone all the time about the details of this life but I will say that we as a group are getting it right. The proof can be found by simply going to Wal Mart and looking at everyone else for a few minutes.

 

[Joleneakamama]

I think what @NickF has shared about his lovely wife establishes they are in the happy category, already doing life, family and their marriage on the blessed side. I sure hope they enjoy the journey that being open to polygyny is.....and get the reward that goes with being faithful and waiting on YHWH.

It was a 20 year wait for me....and people might think we are over confident at this point....but I know where we put our trust.

Two months into a relationship that will last is precisely half way to forever. (As I used to say and feel of our marriage that has lasted over 25 years) of course 26 years together is still precisely half way to forever.

 

[NickF]

I know we all don't agree with everyone all the time about the details of this life but I will say that we as a group are getting it right.

At least those of us who put cilantro on things.

 

[NickF]

I think what @NickF has shared about his lovely wife establishes they are in the happy category, already doing life, family and their marriage on the blessed side. I sure hope they enjoy the journey that being open to polygyny is.....and get the reward that goes with being faithful and waiting on YHWH.

@CatieF has exemplified this passage the past couple days. I couldn’t be more proud of her.

Proverbs 31:25-31 KJV
[25] Strength and honour are her clothing; and she shall rejoice in time to come. [26] She openeth her mouth with wisdom; and in her tongue is the law of kindness. [27] She looketh well to the ways of her household, and eateth not the bread of idleness. [28] Her children arise up, and call her blessed; her husband also, and he praiseth her. [29] Many daughters have done virtuously, but thou excellest them all. [30] Favour is deceitful, and beauty is vain: but a woman that feareth the Lord, she shall be praised. [31] Give her of the fruit of her hands; and let her own works praise her in the gates. …

 

[Joleneakamama]

@CatieF has exemplified this passage the past couple days. I couldn’t be more proud of her.

You both example 1 Peter 3 too. "Joint heirs of the grace of life."

Let that light shine!

Here is a quote from another member here that might make it easier or help us when engaging with those that disagree with us.

"We are right and because we are right we are in a position of power. From that position, we can afford to have grace upon those that are ignorant. We do not need to attack the person or persons that hold erroneous beliefs, not their character, their intelligence, or anything else that is irrelevant to the point being advocated. Once we do that, we lose the high ground. Worse still, it has the effect of creating mental barriers in the eyes of those we are trying to win. Many times we succeed only in inoculating those we ridicule against the very position we want them to embrace.

Instead, listen for those attacks against you, and when you hear them celebrate. It means you won. They have run out of rational arguments, and now they turn to the lowest form of debate, the personal attack. Congratulations, you have undermined an erroneous position. It is time to wrap up. Take your victory and go home.

... but, but, but they didn't admit absolute crushing defeat...

And they are not going to. That happens much later between they, themselves, and God."

~Neo Patriarch

 

[MemeFan]

False.

Pastor's first love MUST be the Almighty and TRUTH. If he has to weigh the value/profit/loss of a truth, he has a different master whether money, position, power, or title. Bottomline, if he is presented this, or any truth, and he squirms, he ain't fit.

Now, to be clear, the truth bringer needs wisdom in how, when, where this or any truth is presented. There is a time/place (Sunday morning Sunday school isn't it....) that doesn't directly threaten the whole flock...

Yes they do, and many have been kicked out of churches for teaching the truth about all manner of things; homosexuality, same-sex marriages, submission of wives, etc. It's not new.

It's not just pastors but anyone wanting the approval of others will have to compromise on truth. However, what we gain is the eternal reward for being faithful. And I'd rather have the eternal rewards for being faithful to God than the temporary praises of men.

If this is his focus, he isn’t a pastor.
Just a pretender collecting a paycheck.

Organized religion is just organized religion.

Guys,

My whole post was about social dynamics. If you don't understand this how do you expect to change beliefs of large group of people?

Polygyny isn't small change. Truth about this often requires changing identity about yourself and your role in world. It means new responsibilities and potentially learning new skills. None of this falls free from sky. It requires inner work in people.

It is interesting that nobody has commented my post about using subversive methods. You would rather be brave, charge fearlessly into enemy line and die into glory (church throws you out). I would rather be effective (church accept truth).

How about forgetting top down strategy (pastor speaking truth) and going bottom up (regular people first)? Like commenting in appropriate situation: I can't find where polygyny is forbidden can you check also, it would be nice having multiple wives if allowed etc...

They can't throw out if you don't directly say that polygyny is allowed. No... you are just accidentally noticing some things. Raise curiosity in other people and let them find truth.

 

[MemeFan]

I used to go several years into one church. I have never hidden my belief that polygyny is awesome. Yet I never had problem with this in church.

I believe following reason are cause:
1) I was never part of something critical (leadership role etc..).
2) I have never spoken with leadership about this issue. There is nothing to gain speaking with them about this topic
3) I have only spoken what I truly believe in private with people I trust.
4) For rest policy was always don't hide, don't show. Let others figure out.

Don't activate church immune system for getting rid of false believers. In most churches setting are set on false values so activating it won't bring you any good. Only kick in arse in way out.

 

[Bartato]

My whole post was about social dynamics. If you don't understand this how do you expect to change beliefs of large group of people?

Maybe we don't expect to change beliefs of a large group of people. We expect to tell the truth and then get crushed. Then, we take consolation in our martyrdom.

 

[FollowingHim]

Maybe we don't expect to change beliefs of a large group of people. We expect to tell the truth and then get crushed. Then, we take consolation in our martyrdom.

And that is a defeatist attitude.

I really do think @MemeFan is onto the right way forward here, and I know this from personal experience of being booted from a church where I was in a leadership position and actually mentioned these things from the pulpit...

Jesus did not try to change the religious leaders. He spoke with them when they approached him, but he did not go out of his way to approach them. He was busy talking to the normal people.

And that is how the political left has taken over our countries also - they have infiltrated the schools, media, workplaces, low level bureaucracies. Made the regular person on the street think their ideas are just the inevitable way society is developing. Then change at the top becomes automatic and supported by whatever "side" is in power. It has not been a top-down seizure of power, but a corruption from the bottom.

True change comes from the bottom up - and we are supposed to be the salt of the world. It's hard to actually do, as the top seems the real issue and the thing to focus on, but we really do need to focus n the bottom.

 

[Joleneakamama]

Maybe we don't expect to change beliefs of a large group of people. We expect to tell the truth and then get crushed. Then, we take consolation in our martyrdom.

Well, I expect to just keep loving everyone no matter whether they approve, understand, accept, or persecute us.
We live in a small community. We have our own business that has a top notch reputation. Our family is liked and respected and our children in demand. When someone needs help they call us. We are service minded and our hearts are really in it.
We are not wantng to upset people or be in your face about it. After their first "date" hubby and his new wife (then prospect) were quite engaged in conversation on a Saturday at our store. I remember a gal that was there for the music jam (that had been canceled) looking over at them and I could see the questions in her mind. She is a remarkable woman herself. We were singing and I was surprised how many songs we both knew. She is in her 30's and single. Maybe someday she will consider this path less taken. God's plans for women are so much richer and more fulfilling then being a cat or dog "mom."

If our example helps just ONE woman....or family catch the bigger vision of what marriage and family can be.....it will be worth taking whatever grief goes with being open about it.
My plan is to be so happy....which is incredibly easy now....that when people get caught up to the reality of our situation they have a witness already that this is good.

 

[Bartato]

Well, I expect to just keep loving everyone no matter whether they approve, understand, accept, or persecute us.
We live in a small community. We have our own business that has a top notch reputation. Our family is liked and respected and our children in demand. When someone needs help they call us. We are service minded and our hearts are really in it.
We are not wantng to upset people or be in your face about it. After their first "date" hubby and his new wife (then prospect) were quite engaged in conversation on a Saturday at our store. I remember a gal that was there for the music jam (that had been canceled) looking over at them and I could see the questions in her mind. She is a remarkable woman herself. We were singing and I was surprised how many songs we both knew. She is in her 30's and single. Maybe someday she will consider this path less taken. God's plans for women are so much richer and more fulfilling then being a cat or dog "mom."

If our example helps just ONE woman....or family catch the bigger vision of what marriage and family can be.....it will be worth taking whatever grief goes with being open about it.
My plan is to be so happy....which is incredibly easy now....that when people get caught up to the reality of our situation they have a witness already that this is good.

That is really awesome! You all are being "salt and light" in this world! Well done

 

[Bartato]

Christ told us to be as cunning as serpents and as innocent as doves. That is something we all need to work on. Christians are frequently cunning as doves and innocent as serpents.

 

[James Pease]

I used to go several years into one church. I have never hidden my belief that polygyny is awesome. Yet I never had problem with this in church.

I believe following reason are cause:
1) I was never part of something critical (leadership role etc..).
2) I have never spoken with leadership about this issue. There is nothing to gain speaking with them about this topic
3) I have only spoken what I truly believe in private with people I trust.
4) For rest policy was always don't hide, don't show. Let others figure out.

Don't activate church immune system for getting rid of false believers. In most churches setting are set on false values so activating it won't bring you any good. Only kick in arse in way out.

While this is good at times lets not forget Paul.
Acts 17
1¶And having passed through Amphipolis, and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where was the synagogue of the Jews,

2and according to the custom of Paul, he went in unto them, and for three sabbaths he was reasoning with them from the Writings,

3opening and alleging, 'That the Christ it behoved to suffer, and to rise again out of the dead, and that this is the Christ -- Jesus whom I proclaim to you.'

4And certain of them did believe, and attached themselves to Paul and to Silas, also of the worshipping Greeks a great multitude, of the principal women also not a few.

5¶And the unbelieving Jews, having been moved with envy, and having taken to them of the loungers certain evil men, and having made a crowd, were setting the city in an uproar; having assailed also the house of Jason, they were seeking them to bring them to the populace,

6and not having found them, they drew Jason and certain brethren unto the city rulers, calling aloud -- 'These, having put the world in commotion, are also here present,

7whom Jason hath received; and these all do contrary to the decrees of Caesar, saying another to be king -- Jesus.'

8And they troubled the multitude and the city rulers, hearing these things,

9and having taking security from Jason and the rest, they let them go.

 

[James Pease]

While this is good at times lets not forget Paul.
Acts 17
1¶And having passed through Amphipolis, and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where was the synagogue of the Jews,

2and according to the custom of Paul, he went in unto them, and for three sabbaths he was reasoning with them from the Writings,

3opening and alleging, 'That the Christ it behoved to suffer, and to rise again out of the dead, and that this is the Christ -- Jesus whom I proclaim to you.'

4And certain of them did believe, and attached themselves to Paul and to Silas, also of the worshipping Greeks a great multitude, of the principal women also not a few.

5¶And the unbelieving Jews, having been moved with envy, and having taken to them of the loungers certain evil men, and having made a crowd, were setting the city in an uproar; having assailed also the house of Jason, they were seeking them to bring them to the populace,

6and not having found them, they drew Jason and certain brethren unto the city rulers, calling aloud -- 'These, having put the world in commotion, are also here present,

7whom Jason hath received; and these all do contrary to the decrees of Caesar, saying another to be king -- Jesus.'

8And they troubled the multitude and the city rulers, hearing these things,

9and having taking security from Jason and the rest, they let them go.

I do understand this is about the Messiah, but He also says He is the word, so His word is important.

 

[frederick]

And that is a defeatist attitude.

I really do think @MemeFan is onto the right way forward here, and I know this from personal experience of being booted from a church where I was in a leadership position and actually mentioned these things from the pulpit...

Jesus did not try to change the religious leaders. He spoke with them when they approached him, but he did not go out of his way to approach them. He was busy talking to the normal people.

And that is how the political left has taken over our countries also - they have infiltrated the schools, media, workplaces, low level bureaucracies. Made the regular person on the street think their ideas are just the inevitable way society is developing. Then change at the top becomes automatic and supported by whatever "side" is in power. It has not been a top-down seizure of power, but a corruption from the bottom.

True change comes from the bottom up - and we are supposed to be the salt of the world. It's hard to actually do, as the top seems the real issue and the thing to focus on, but we really do need to focus n the bottom.

Change has always been one soul at a time and sometimes God changes one at the top and sometimes God changes one at the bottom. Most of all, I thank God He changed me.

 

[Hisdaughter]

I am not gonna lie. I was nervous for my family to find out at first but the older I get the more I just don't care what they think. I don't even tell them what I do most of the time now. I guess it's our version of don't ask don't tell

 

[NickF]

Well. It seems as though it’s all coming to a head this weekend or the upcoming week!

Prayers that Yah confounds the enemy. That the mouth of the unrighteous is stopped, that those who seek for discord among the brethren are stopped.

Since the beginning of this year I have sued for peace and a rejection of contention or discord.

1 Timothy 5:22
Lay hands suddenly on no man, neither be a partaker of other men's sins: keep thyself pure.

Proverbs 17:9
[9] He that covereth a transgression seeketh love; but he that repeateth a matter separateth very friends.

Proverbs 6:16-19
[16] These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: q [17] A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, [18] An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, [19] A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren. …

Proverbs 17:15
He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are abomination to the LORD.

 

[NickF]

Praise the Most High!!!!

The verdict is in!

Catie’s parents, agree that poly is not sinful and would not break fellowship with us for practicing it! Same with my parents!..mostly

Most likely all my siblings will follow the same course, two brothers already agree with me. Most likely her siblings will both agree with us as well.

Looks like the paper I “wrote” (borrowing heavily from our dear @FollowingHim) with the editing and proofreading help of @PeteR was instrumental in proving the truth to them. Thank you to both of you guys for your help in the matter! All Glory and Honor to the One who wrote the words and gave them to us!

Catie and I are rejoicing!

 

[Keith Martin]

Wonderful.

And I'm really looking forward to hearing more about it next week.