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What is a “jezebel spirit”?

Yes I believe you did share that. I understand why you shared this. I didn’t mean what I said in a snarky way. I was just saying that I take his work with a grain of salt. :)

Edit: In response to @Verifyveritas76
 
Yep. I think I’m the one that found that. Anywho, some of his early works are more or less worth reading from before he developed a Montanist bent. I honestly don’t remember where this one lands in his timeline. Just thought it was an interesting late 2nd century perspective




Yes I believe you did share that. I understand why you shared this. I didn’t mean what I said in a snarky way. I was just saying that I take his work with a grain of salt. :)
 
Christian doctrine comes from the written Word of God.

This is the center of your objection about the Jezebel spirit, so I'll leave off my knee jerk reaction of defending John. To his own Master he stands or falls, he does not need me.

John 16:12 Says that Jesus had more to say to the disciples, but they could not bear it, but that the Spirit of truth would come and lead them into all truth.

From this I can say with certainty that Jesus had declared all the scripture written previously, and even his entire testimony and ministry on this earth, to be insufficient to complete his disciples' education.
That would be the work of the Spirit of Truth.

One may suppose that the work of this Spirit to be finished once the last book of the protestant bible had been completed, but that is a losing proposition because:

1 Cor 2:14-15 says only the man with the spirit of God can comprehend spiritual things (which the Word of God clearly is)

The Spirit of Truth must continue his work for each person who reads the bible.

Jesus modeled that principle when teaching about the acceptable day of the Lord, quoting a prophecy and cutting it short and inserting a rather large portion of time between that and the part that immediately follows (2000+ years and counting). This can only be done by the Spirit of Truth. Paul could only read spiritual meaning that was not made explicit in the lack of geneology for Melchizedek by the Spirit of Truth. It's not that these things were not contained in the Word of God, but that the meaning could only be realized by revelation by the Spirit. No straightforward reading could have given these doctrines. The spirit illuminates and connects things that are only spiritually discerned.

I testify that no-one can read of Melchizedek and intuit that since his parents were not named, he was a type of Christ, unless the spirit had given him understanding. In the same way the bible has much to say that you do not think it says, until the spirit shows you first.

The idea that it must be clearly stated in the bible to be so, would have a man arguing with Paul about what muzzling an Ox meant.
 
This is the center of your objection about the Jezebel spirit, so I'll leave off my knee jerk reaction of defending John. To his own Master he stands or falls, he does not need me.

John 16:12 Says that Jesus had more to say to the disciples, but they could not bear it, but that the Spirit of truth would come and lead them into all truth.

From this I can say with certainty that Jesus had declared all the scripture written previously, and even his entire testimony and ministry on this earth, to be insufficient to complete his disciples' education.
That would be the work of the Spirit of Truth.

One may suppose that the work of this Spirit to be finished once the last book of the protestant bible had been completed, but that is a losing proposition because:

1 Cor 2:14-15 says only the man with the spirit of God can comprehend spiritual things (which the Word of God clearly is)

The Spirit of Truth must continue his work for each person who reads the bible.

Jesus modeled that principle when teaching about the acceptable day of the Lord, quoting a prophecy and cutting it short and inserting a rather large portion of time between that and the part that immediately follows (2000+ years and counting). This can only be done by the Spirit of Truth. Paul could only read spiritual meaning that was not made explicit in the lack of geneology for Melchizedek by the Spirit of Truth. It's not that these things were not contained in the Word of God, but that the meaning could only be realized by revelation by the Spirit. No straightforward reading could have given these doctrines. The spirit illuminates and connects things that are only spiritually discerned.

I testify that no-one can read of Melchizedek and intuit that since his parents were not named, he was a type of Christ, unless the spirit had given him understanding. In the same way the bible has much to say that you do not think it says, until the spirit shows you first.

The idea that it must be clearly stated in the bible to be so, would have a man arguing with Paul about what muzzling an Ox meant.

Excellent post and could be used in a few other recent threads dealing with the work of the Holy Spirit.
 
This is the center of your objection about the Jezebel spirit, so I'll leave off my knee jerk reaction of defending John. To his own Master he stands or falls, he does not need me.

John 16:12 Says that Jesus had more to say to the disciples, but they could not bear it, but that the Spirit of truth would come and lead them into all truth.

From this I can say with certainty that Jesus had declared all the scripture written previously, and even his entire testimony and ministry on this earth, to be insufficient to complete his disciples' education.
That would be the work of the Spirit of Truth.

One may suppose that the work of this Spirit to be finished once the last book of the protestant bible had been completed, but that is a losing proposition because:

1 Cor 2:14-15 says only the man with the spirit of God can comprehend spiritual things (which the Word of God clearly is)

The Spirit of Truth must continue his work for each person who reads the bible.

Jesus modeled that principle when teaching about the acceptable day of the Lord, quoting a prophecy and cutting it short and inserting a rather large portion of time between that and the part that immediately follows (2000+ years and counting). This can only be done by the Spirit of Truth. Paul could only read spiritual meaning that was not made explicit in the lack of geneology for Melchizedek by the Spirit of Truth. It's not that these things were not contained in the Word of God, but that the meaning could only be realized by revelation by the Spirit. No straightforward reading could have given these doctrines. The spirit illuminates and connects things that are only spiritually discerned.

I testify that no-one can read of Melchizedek and intuit that since his parents were not named, he was a type of Christ, unless the spirit had given him understanding. In the same way the bible has much to say that you do not think it says, until the spirit shows you first.

The idea that it must be clearly stated in the bible to be so, would have a man arguing with Paul about what muzzling an Ox meant.

Ah yes, the secret knowledge. There are many things that aren’t stated specifically in scripture that are indeed true, but those things are not found by some mysterious reading between the lines. It is indeed The Holy Spirit that opens our understanding to be able to comprehend those things. However, we see these thing or they are revealed to us by comparing scripture with scripture. When we begin to just speculate or go with our “gut feelings” “that can’t be wise”.

If I were to say, I feel like God is saying such and such, and it sounded somewhat reasonable very few christians would bat an eye. But, if I were to say I feel like this particular guy might just be a false teacher, instantly proof is demanded and suddenly gut feelings are not to be trusted.

This guy leads with wanting to sell you some books, that’s a serious red flag right out of the gate. Any judge in this country would call him a non-credible witness based on his own words.

If you have a defense for him and/or his ministry, I think you should defend him and his ministry and if the case can be made that he is indeed being falsely maligned, I will apologize.
 
For we do not fight flesh and blood but principalities.. I once had a family member that every time she came in my home, I felt very uncomfortable. I actually cringed each time that I got close to her. I prayed to God one day that He would reveal to me why this was so. I was in my home but had a vision of her standing in her kitchen. She had a huge python snake wrapped around her. The head laid on her waist and the body wrapped up and around until the end of the tail was around her neck. God showed me that this was a python demon. And yes, there is a Jezebel spirit. I have seen things in the spiritual realm that would make some people cringe but I will not go into details until asked.
 
so I'll leave off my knee jerk reaction of defending John. To his own Master he stands or falls, he does not need me.

Said it and meant it. I asked to appeal to authority, and you denied it. Going down this path will have me debating a youtube video titled "David Wilkerson Exposed" or something. Not interested in doing that dance. If anything you said is falsely maligning anyone, you'll give an account for it on the day all such accounts must be made without my wearying myself. To your own Master you stand or fall as well. I am confident you will stand.

Ah yes, the secret knowledge. There are many things that aren’t stated specifically in scripture that are indeed true, but those things are not found by some mysterious reading between the lines. It is indeed The Holy Spirit that opens our understanding to be able to comprehend those things. However, we see these thing or they are revealed to us by comparing scripture with scripture.

So back to the topic, then. If a completely random christian has a revelation that the same spirit that worked through Jezebel is at work today, on what grounds do we get to say, "nuh-uh"? The point of spiritual warfare is not to convince or educate other christians about demonic natures and personalities, but to cast out demons. Now if there were some scripture saying or showing "there isn't or couldn't be a spirit of Jezebel" then there'd be a reason to contradict for sure.

They say things like “i bind you spirit of Jezebel” or “the spirit of Jezebel was on that person” or “the spirit of Jezebel was controlling that person”, they speak to it directly like it’s an actual being and not just an attitude. Not every term needs to come directly from scripture, but the concept of it needs to be clear before it can be considered scriptural.

So... not that you'd have any real reason to believe me, but one of the first steps I had to take when I first started engaging in this fight is recognizing that much of what I would assume was an attitude needed to be spoken to directly like it was an actual being. I know of no scripture for a spirit of depression or a spirit of anger, or a spirit of addiction. And yet (I'll take one for the team and boast like a fool) I've cast those demons out of people and changed their lives in the name of Jesus. I'm the hardest working exorcist in my city, and my batting average is phenomenal. And what can anyone say to me about it? There's no spirit of meth addiction in the bible, so it's unscriptural to call it out like that? Too late! That train has left the station, and it took the demon right with it!

I know that if a demon has a proper name we're unlikely to ever know it or need it. For sure no demon's proper name is "unclean" if it is, it must be a super common name. When I add specificity to it, calling it out by name (as it were) I'm pinpointing its description for the benefit of those who are around, so they can see with their own eyes the specific change in that person once the spirit is gone, and so if there are multiple demons that the exact one who's causing the problem knows to skedaddle. Would you do it differently? Then do so!

If I'm being frank, I perceive you are speaking out of a lack of firsthand experience mostly to and about people who have actually fought this fight. If calling a demon by the name jezebel is inappropriate well, tell me the strategies you've employed and how well it worked and why your way is more scriptural.

Can you though?
 
Said it and meant it. I asked to appeal to authority, and you denied it. Going down this path will have me debating a youtube video titled "David Wilkerson Exposed" or something. Not interested in doing that dance. If anything you said is falsely maligning anyone, you'll give an account for it on the day all such accounts must be made without my wearying myself. To your own Master you stand or fall as well. I am confident you will stand.



So back to the topic, then. If a completely random christian has a revelation that the same spirit that worked through Jezebel is at work today, on what grounds do we get to say, "nuh-uh"? The point of spiritual warfare is not to convince or educate other christians about demonic natures and personalities, but to cast out demons. Now if there were some scripture saying or showing "there isn't or couldn't be a spirit of Jezebel" then there'd be a reason to contradict for sure.



So... not that you'd have any real reason to believe me, but one of the first steps I had to take when I first started engaging in this fight is recognizing that much of what I would assume was an attitude needed to be spoken to directly like it was an actual being. I know of no scripture for a spirit of depression or a spirit of anger, or a spirit of addiction. And yet (I'll take one for the team and boast like a fool) I've cast those demons out of people and changed their lives in the name of Jesus. I'm the hardest working exorcist in my city, and my batting average is phenomenal. And what can anyone say to me about it? There's no spirit of meth addiction in the bible, so it's unscriptural to call it out like that? Too late! That train has left the station, and it took the demon right with it!

I know that if a demon has a proper name we're unlikely to ever know it or need it. For sure no demon's proper name is "unclean" if it is, it must be a super common name. When I add specificity to it, calling it out by name (as it were) I'm pinpointing its description for the benefit of those who are around, so they can see with their own eyes the specific change in that person once the spirit is gone, and so if there are multiple demons that the exact one who's causing the problem knows to skedaddle. Would you do it differently? Then do so!

If I'm being frank, I perceive you are speaking out of a lack of firsthand experience mostly to and about people who have actually fought this fight. If calling a demon by the name jezebel is inappropriate well, tell me the strategies you've employed and how well it worked and why your way is more scriptural.

Can you though?




I didn’t bring this guy’s name up, you did. You used his supposed credibility in the area of spiritual warfare to give credibility to some flimsy doctrine about demons. Then you try and turn it around to make it look like I’m dodging something?

This guy has been caught, on video, lying through his teeth while claiming to be ministering for God. You’re incredibly well versed in the area of spiritual warfare, so tell me, who is the father of lies? You didn’t spot this guy as a fraud? Where is your spiritual spidy sense on this one?

This talk of your superior, rockstar level of spiritual warriorship shines one heck of a spotlight on you, but you know who the spotlight seems to be drifting away from? Jesus Christ and him crucified for our sins. Christ said that many will cast out demons, but guess what, He says he doesn’t know them. Experience with casting out demons doesn’t give you authority to write new doctrine on spiritual warfare.
 
Well, I think you've displayed enough of yourself here that the casual observer can tell just what drives you.

I deny John Ramirez is a fraud. I believe him to be a genuine servant of God. If I had a sufficient amount of footage of anyone, I could splice together a damning video of them in the same way.

You ask me who the father of lies is? He is the same spirit who is also known as the accuser of the brethren.

Did you begin this thread to shine a spotlight on our resurrected King? No, you started it to smugly discredit the beliefs of your fellow servants.

This was shameful, and I'll have no further part in it.
 
We see through a glass darkly. There are a lot of things that scripture just doesn't explain to us. Whether they can be known now or are left to the next age I cannot say.
 
Well, I think you've displayed enough of yourself here that the casual observer can tell just what drives you.

Oh? And, what is that? Why don’t you just say what you mean?

I deny John Ramirez is a fraud. I believe him to be a genuine servant of God. If I had a sufficient amount of footage of anyone, I could splice together a damning video of them in the same way.

Horse manure. This isn’t somebody surreptitiously filming him trying to catch him doing something wrong. These are clips of him giving his testimony and telling the same stories with contradicting facts and time lines.

Here is the advertisement for one of his books from his own website:

“Unmasking the Devil
by John Ramirez

"This book will keep you three steps ahead of the devil! Amazing revelation of our victory!"
– Side Roth, Host of It’s Supernatural

In Unmasking the Devil, John Ramirez shares an insider view of how satan operates so you can avoid his traps and learn how to:

  • Discern between the voice of God that directs to victory and satan’s voice that leads to destruction.
  • Close the demonic doors satan uses to enter your life: entertainment, unhealthy relationships, greed, and false religion.
  • Activate the spiritual weapons of prayer, intercession, and Scripture to render hell powerless over your life.
  • Recognize how the spirits of Jezebel and Delilah attempt to infiltrate the church, create disunity, and render God’s people powerless.”


Oh! Sid Roth indorses it, yay! Sid Roth is one of the slimmest spiritual hucksters to ever grace television, so his endorsement isn’t surprising. Sid says with this book, you can stay three steps ahead of the devil... seriously? This has scam written all over it.


How about this claim,“John Ramirez shares an insider view of how satan operates so you can avoid his traps...”? There it is, the secret knowledge. Stingy old God, hiding the good stuff from us! Good thing we have John Ramirez to open our eyes to what’s really going on in the demonic realm! Wait, hang on a second... isn’t that right along the same line as what satan said to Eve in the garden? Didn’t he promise her that her eyes would be opened, that she would gain some previously unknown information that God hadn’t let her in on, or something like that?

There’s more! Active the spiritual weapons! Have you activated your weapons yet? What is this? Wait, is this an add for a video game? He’s going to give you the secret formula?
Bummer, that God didn’t include the secret formula in the scriptures :(

Here is a quote from his book:

“People are eager to understand, not only the
role of Satan in the modern world but how to combat him. The book you’re holding will do just that.”
Unmasking the Devil- a note from the author

Really? How has the church survived for two millennia without this information?

As @rockfox noted, “we see through a glass darkly”. We are given some information in scripture about some things regarding demons and angels in the spiritual world, and that is good enough. We don’t go digging into the occult in order to find some clever way to defeat satan, Jesus Christ already did that on the cross!

Also, claiming that everything that is sin is caused by a demon, exonerates the sinner without the need for confession and repentance of their sin. It makes them a victim in need of an exorcism instead of a sinner in need of The Savior.


QUOTE="Slumberfreeze, post: 174890, member: 1638"]
You ask me who the father of lies is? He is the same spirit who is also known as the accuser of the brethren. [/QUOTE]

Indeed, however pointing out a false teacher and his false teaching doesn’t fall into that category, and you know that.

Did you begin this thread to shine a spotlight on our resurrected King? No, you started it to smugly discredit the beliefs of your fellow servants.

This was shameful, and I'll have no further part in it.

No. Shame on you for holding doctrine derived from your personal experience as being on parr with the written Word of God! And shame on you for providing cover for a man who is fleecing Christ’s sheep.
 
For the record, I think y'all wrong about all of this. :);):confused:o_O
 
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