Who is "Allah"?

[Mark C]

I'm just going by the accepted dictionary definition, which is clear and simple.
Oxford: "a person who holds religious beliefs that are not part of any of the world’s main religions"

So this thread has already descended into linguistic flatulence.

One of Merriam-Webster's pablumized 'definitions' even said any religion EXCEPT 'Judaism, Islam, or Christianity.' What'll they add next?

Pagan thus means any religious beliefs that AREN'T popular enough with the [pagan?] masses.

Ergo, Transexualism and Gaia worship can NOT be pagan because enough people who do NOT accept the One True YHVH, Author of Scripture, believe that crap.

('Infringed' no longer means what it did in 1792; 'free speech' now means, a bit like pagan, exactly whatever the masses allow to be spoken, 'health care' means cutting off pre-pubescent genitalia, and so on. Humpty Dumpty was right. So was Orwell. And when words lose their meaning, so does the point of discussion.)


PS> I guess I should add, just for the purpose of completion, that when I use the word pagan, it means what it once did, "the worship of false gods or goddesses." Quantity is irrelevant, it's the "false" part that matters. And by that 'non-democratic' definition, yes, Islam, much of xtianity that prefers a warm, fuzzy diety who 'loves' the way that word has been re-defined, and all who elevate the false god (even singular) of the Almighty State above any other, are "pagan."

 

[JudahYAHites]

What do you mean by "from" in the above statements @JudahYAHites?

Okay @FollowingHim better late than never.

When I state FROM, I am referring to the foundation of the religion.

With regards to Christianity, Constantine laid a foundation that distorted the holy and righteous foundation of the prophets and apostles, creating the first "official" "place of worship" for the disciples who were called Christians by the pagan culture they lived among outside of a home, going as far as to consider himself the 13th Apostle. The pagan accoutrements he introduced are still being enjoyed by the majority of Christians today, which, if we consider the words of our King referenced in John 8, that if we ABIDE in HIS word THEN, we are his disciples indeed.
Needless to say, if we do not ABIDE in his word then we are not his disciple, simple, consequently, if we engage in pagan practices then by default we cannot be a disciple, meaning one may be a Christian by category and call him Lord, but be a living pagan in practice.

With regards to Mohammedism aka Islam, the foundation goes back to goddess worship and the stone they kiss in such a special way is representative of the female vulvar... oh, I didn't mention that it's in essence a sex cult... you will have to get in a queue to pucker up though, behind all the others who erroneously believe they are in a monotheistic religion.

 

[The Revolting Man]

Why are Christ followers at odds over Islam?

 

[MemeFan]

Why are Christ followers at odds over Islam?

Everybody uses different definition of paganism, so they speak at each other, instead to each other.

 

[FollowingHim]

One of Merriam-Webster's pablumized 'definitions' even said any religion EXCEPT 'Judaism, Islam, or Christianity.' What'll they add next?

That's not the invention of Merriam-Webster, it's the standard definition that has existed for centuries and appears in every dictionary (either that or "polytheism", which basically shakes down to the same thing). It's a silly word to redefine and then get into an argument over the definition. If the word "pagan" doesn't already mean what you want to say, pick a different word that does mean that already rather than using "pagan" and then arguing it should mean what you wanted to say.

Why are Christ followers at odds over Islam?

Good question. I aren't defending Islam, but I am finding it very interesting to understand what others are using the word "pagan" to mean, as the people using that word in this discussion more commonly use that word as an insult directed at other Christians. I am finding this aspect of the discussion quite revealing. The topic of Islam is just what prompted it.

 

[Ahmad]

He still called himself "creator(s)." Instead of saying "best and only Creator."

Compare that to Judges 2:12 from Old Testament:

They abandoned the LORD, the God of their ancestors, who had brought them out of Egypt. They went after other gods, worshiping the gods of the people around them. And they angered the LORD.

The God of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob does not refer to himself as creator(s).

Hello Earth,
I think I explained this well in previous response. Get back to it. God is not the only creator, however, God is the best of creators.
Can we create souls and heave ..etc like God? Impossible
Can we create cars and artificial limbs? Yes !

 

[JudahYAHites]

Who is Allah ?

Feel free to contact christian prince and refute him live on his channel. It is crystal clear that Allah is NOT the God of the Bible and Mohammed is NOT a prophet of the God of the Bible

 

[steve]

God is not the only creator, however, God is the best of creators.
Can we create souls and heave ..etc like God? Impossible
Can we create cars and artificial limbs? Yes !

Yah is the Creator of everything, including lesser creators.
We were created in His image, and as He is Creator we are junior creators. But to truly Create, you have to make something from nothing. Which we cannot do, and neither can the being that you call Allah.

 

[Ahmad]

Welcome back @Ahmad, haven't seen you for a long time. You always jump into the deep water debating about whether Islam is correct!

I have to agree with @Ahmad that, by definition, Islam is not pagan. To term everything that you believe is wrong as "pagan" just makes that word meaningless. It has a specific meaning, not all errors are paganism. Judaism and Zoroastrianism are also wrong, but also not pagan.

While that is the fundamental error of Islam - it expects everyone to earn their own salvation.

But therein lies the key to being assured of salvation. Christianity teaches that you must accept Christ, and then as a result will submit to God's authority. The Quran teaches that salvation is solely by submitting to God's authority. So by being a good Christian you cover both bases - if Christianity is correct, you go to heaven for being a "Christian", and if Islam turns out to be correct you still go to heaven for being a "good" one. So just be a Christian. I outlined that more carefully here:

The Qur'an says Christians are saved

I was reading through the Qur'an today, and was reminded of why it is completely pointless to be a Muslim. Those who believe (in the Qur'an), And those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), And the Christians and the Sabians, Any who believe in God and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall...

www.biblicalfamilies.org

Hello Samuel
Nice to see you here again!
We believe Christianity, and all other religions and prophets sent by God ask their nations to submit to God, and God only.
In Quran, Surat Algen, Allah says to Mohammed:
(21) Say, "Indeed, I do not possess for you [the power of] harm or right direction."
(22) Say, "Indeed, there will never protect me from Allah anyone [if I should disobey], nor will I find in other than Him a refuge.
(23) But [I have for you] only notification from Allah, and His messages." And whoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger - then indeed, for him is the fire of Hell; they will abide therein forever.

All prophets ask their people to worship God, no one else. As Surat Ala'araf mentions that:
(59) We had certainly sent Noah to his people, and he said, "O my people, worship Allah; you have no deity other than Him. Indeed, I fear for you the punishment of a tremendous Day.
(65) And to the 'Aad [We sent] their brother Hud. He said, "O my people, worship Allah; you have no deity other than Him. Then will you not fear Him?"
(73) And to the Thamud [We sent] their brother Salih. He said, "O my people, worship Allah; you have no deity other than Him.
(85) And to [the people of] Madyan [We sent] their brother Shu'ayb. He said, "O my people, worship Allah; you have no deity other than Him. There has come to you clear evidence from your Lord. So fulfill the measure and weight and do not deprive people of their due and cause not corruption upon the earth after its reformation. That is better for you, if you should be believers.
The Surat Alanam confirms this from verse 70 to 88:
(70) And leave those who take their religion as amusement and diversion and whom the worldly life has deluded. But remind with the Qur'an, lest a soul be given up to destruction for what it earned; it will have other than Allah no protector and no intercessor. And if it should offer every compensation, it would not be taken from it. Those are the ones who are given to destruction for what they have earned. For them will be a drink of scalding water and a painful punishment because they used to disbelieve.
(71) Say, "Shall we invoke instead of Allah that which neither benefits us nor harms us and be turned back on our heels after Allah has guided us? [We would then be] like one whom the devils enticed [to wander] upon the earth confused, [while] he has companions inviting him to guidance, [calling], 'Come to us.' " Say, "Indeed, the guidance of Allah is the [only] guidance; and we have been commanded to submit to the Lord of the worlds.
(72) And to establish prayer and fear Him." And it is He to whom you will be gathered.
(73) And it is He who created the heavens and earth in truth. And the day He says, "Be," and it is, His word is the truth. And His is the dominion [on] the Day the Horn is blown. [He is] Knower of the unseen and the witnessed; and He is the Wise, the Acquainted.
(74) And [mention, O Muhammad], when Abraham said to his father Azar, "Do you take idols as deities? Indeed, I see you and your people to be in manifest error."
(75) And thus did We show Abraham the realm of the heavens and the earth that he would be among the certain [in faith]
(76) So when the night covered him [with darkness], he saw a star. He said, "This is my lord." But when it set, he said, "I like not those that disappear."
(77) And when he saw the moon rising, he said, "This is my lord." But when it set, he said, "Unless my Lord guides me, I will surely be among the people gone astray."
(78) And when he saw the sun rising, he said, "This is my lord; this is greater." But when it set, he said, "O my people, indeed I am free from what you associate with Allah.
(79) Indeed, I have turned my face toward He who created the heavens and the earth, inclining toward truth, and I am not of those who associate others with Allah."
(80) And his people argued with him. He said, "Do you argue with me concerning Allah while He has guided me? And I fear not what you associate with Him [and will not be harmed] unless my Lord should will something. My Lord encompasses all things in knowledge; then will you not remember?
(81) And how should I fear what you associate while you do not fear that you have associated with Allah that for which He has not sent down to you any authority? So which of the two parties has more right to security, if you should know?
(82) They who believe and do not mix their belief with injustice - those will have security, and they are [rightly] guided.
(83) And that was Our [conclusive] argument which We gave Abraham against his people. We raise by degrees whom We will. Indeed, your Lord is Wise and Knowing.
(84) And We gave to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob - all [of them] We guided. And Noah, We guided before; and among his descendants, David and Solomon and Job and Joseph and Moses and Aaron. Thus do We reward the doers of good.
(85) And Zechariah and John and Jesus and Elias - and all were of the righteous.
(86) And Ishmael and Elisha and Jonah and Lot - and all [of them] We preferred over the worlds.
(87) And [some] among their fathers and their descendants and their brothers - and We chose them and We guided them to a straight path.
(88) That is the guidance of Allah by which He guides whomever He wills of His servants. But if they had associated others with Allah, then worthless for them would be whatever they were doing.

God tells his final Prophet Mohammed peace and blessing be upon him in Quran at Surat Alanbya:
(25) And We sent not before you any messenger except that We revealed to him that, "There is no deity except Me, so worship Me."

In response to your comment, Christians, who followed the real teachings of Eisa peace be upon him, will go to heaven. However, the real teachings of Eisa peace be upon him is to follow the final prophet and servant of God who be sent after him.
Eisa peace be upon him came with good news, the good news was the final message, and The Prophet that all nations will follow him, is about to be sent.
Allah confirms this in Quran that the only religion to follow is Islam.
(85) And whoever desires other than Islam as religion - never will it be accepted from him, and he, in the Hereafter, will be among the losers.

 

[NVIII]

God was sitting in heaven one day when a scientist said to Him,

"God, we don't need you anymore. Science has finally figured out a way to create life out of nothing - in other words, we can now do what you did in the beginning."

"Oh, is that so? Tell Me..." replied God.

"We can make cars and artificial limbs and clones," said the scientist. "We can even make life out of nothing, just like you!"

"Well, that's very interesting...show Me."

So the scientist bent down to the earth and started to mold the soil into the shape of a man.

"No, no, no..." interrupted God, "Get your own dirt."

John 1:3

We are discoverers, and that is our glory, but are we really creators? Reeeeeeally? If we are, then so are the animals. Beavers build dams and make ponds, birds build nests, monkeys build societies, etc.. Nah, I say He already created it all and we are just discovering how to put it together to make what He already created for us to make. We are not gods, although many of us do see equality with God as something to be gained.

 

[Mark C]

Can we create souls and heave ..etc like God? Impossible
Can we create cars and artificial limbs? Yes !

There are different HEBREW words. "Bara" is the root that means 'create - 'ex nihilo', from NOTHING'.

Ponder:

Man reveres Science. He finally tells the One True Elohim "I can create life, too!"
Says YHVH, "OK - show me."

Man reaches down, grabs a handful of dirt, and starts to fashion it.

Elohim slaps his hand empty and says, "Get your own dirt!"


PS> (Edit, ex post facto...) Wow...great minds...

 

[Mark C]

That's not the invention of Merriam-Webster, it's the standard definition that has existed for centuries...

Fake god [ s ] have existed for far longer...

...and appears in every dictionary (either that or "polytheism", which basically shakes down to the same thing).

...as I said, QUANTITY is irrelevant to Him (he's demonstrably not happy with "Baal"- worship, or a singular "golden calf," or a singular Molech)

...If the word "pagan" doesn't already mean what you want to say, pick a different word that does mean that already rather than using "pagan" and then arguing it should mean what you wanted to say.

I'm not going to repeat arguments circularly, and have some moderator say the thread has descended into repetition.

But I did "pick another word," since, like the other examples I gave, people no longer understand the meaning.

Surprise - the Whore Church doesn't define itself as "pagan." Neither did Ahola, Israel, the kingdom that was once Ephraim, even AFTER the prophets repeatedly warned them!

But WHY, oh, WHY is it (they) STILL IN EXILE?

 

[MemeFan]

We are discoverers, and that is our glory, but are we really creators? Reeeeeeally? If we are, then so are the animals. Beavers build dams and make ponds, birds build nests, monkeys build societies, etc.. Nah, I say He already created it all and we are just discovering how to put it together to make what He already created for us to make. We are not gods, although many of us do see equality with God as something to be gained.

We are creators.

Making means take something existing and transform it into something more useful. Thibk factory.

Create means form something from nothing. What is physical material from which song, pictures, scultures and movies are made? There is none. It all starts as idea in head.

 

[NVIII]

What is physical material from which song, pictures, scultures and movies are made?

Sound waves and light waves when you get down to it. We are arranging them and discovering patterns in them which God already instituted.

Create means form something from nothing.

Making means take something existing and transform it into something more useful.

Tada!

We are creators.

Then you find no error in this:

God is not the only creator, however, God is the best of creators.

But Morse understood and acknowledged his place: "What hath God wrought?"

 

[steve]

But Morse understood and acknowledged his place: "What hath God wrought?"

 

[OttoM]

Hello Samuel
Nice to see you here again!
We believe Christianity, and all other religions and prophets sent by God ask their nations to submit to God, and God only.
In Quran, Surat Algen, Allah says to Mohammed:
(21) Say, "Indeed, I do not possess for you [the power of] harm or right direction."
(22) Say, "Indeed, there will never protect me from Allah anyone [if I should disobey], nor will I find in other than Him a refuge.
(23) But [I have for you] only notification from Allah, and His messages." And whoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger - then indeed, for him is the fire of Hell; they will abide therein forever.

All prophets ask their people to worship God, no one else. As Surat Ala'araf mentions that:
(59) We had certainly sent Noah to his people, and he said, "O my people, worship Allah; you have no deity other than Him. Indeed, I fear for you the punishment of a tremendous Day.
(65) And to the 'Aad [We sent] their brother Hud. He said, "O my people, worship Allah; you have no deity other than Him. Then will you not fear Him?"
(73) And to the Thamud [We sent] their brother Salih. He said, "O my people, worship Allah; you have no deity other than Him.
(85) And to [the people of] Madyan [We sent] their brother Shu'ayb. He said, "O my people, worship Allah; you have no deity other than Him. There has come to you clear evidence from your Lord. So fulfill the measure and weight and do not deprive people of their due and cause not corruption upon the earth after its reformation. That is better for you, if you should be believers.
The Surat Alanam confirms this from verse 70 to 88:
(70) And leave those who take their religion as amusement and diversion and whom the worldly life has deluded. But remind with the Qur'an, lest a soul be given up to destruction for what it earned; it will have other than Allah no protector and no intercessor. And if it should offer every compensation, it would not be taken from it. Those are the ones who are given to destruction for what they have earned. For them will be a drink of scalding water and a painful punishment because they used to disbelieve.
(71) Say, "Shall we invoke instead of Allah that which neither benefits us nor harms us and be turned back on our heels after Allah has guided us? [We would then be] like one whom the devils enticed [to wander] upon the earth confused, [while] he has companions inviting him to guidance, [calling], 'Come to us.' " Say, "Indeed, the guidance of Allah is the [only] guidance; and we have been commanded to submit to the Lord of the worlds.
(72) And to establish prayer and fear Him." And it is He to whom you will be gathered.
(73) And it is He who created the heavens and earth in truth. And the day He says, "Be," and it is, His word is the truth. And His is the dominion [on] the Day the Horn is blown. [He is] Knower of the unseen and the witnessed; and He is the Wise, the Acquainted.
(74) And [mention, O Muhammad], when Abraham said to his father Azar, "Do you take idols as deities? Indeed, I see you and your people to be in manifest error."
(75) And thus did We show Abraham the realm of the heavens and the earth that he would be among the certain [in faith]
(76) So when the night covered him [with darkness], he saw a star. He said, "This is my lord." But when it set, he said, "I like not those that disappear."
(77) And when he saw the moon rising, he said, "This is my lord." But when it set, he said, "Unless my Lord guides me, I will surely be among the people gone astray."
(78) And when he saw the sun rising, he said, "This is my lord; this is greater." But when it set, he said, "O my people, indeed I am free from what you associate with Allah.
(79) Indeed, I have turned my face toward He who created the heavens and the earth, inclining toward truth, and I am not of those who associate others with Allah."
(80) And his people argued with him. He said, "Do you argue with me concerning Allah while He has guided me? And I fear not what you associate with Him [and will not be harmed] unless my Lord should will something. My Lord encompasses all things in knowledge; then will you not remember?
(81) And how should I fear what you associate while you do not fear that you have associated with Allah that for which He has not sent down to you any authority? So which of the two parties has more right to security, if you should know?
(82) They who believe and do not mix their belief with injustice - those will have security, and they are [rightly] guided.
(83) And that was Our [conclusive] argument which We gave Abraham against his people. We raise by degrees whom We will. Indeed, your Lord is Wise and Knowing.
(84) And We gave to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob - all [of them] We guided. And Noah, We guided before; and among his descendants, David and Solomon and Job and Joseph and Moses and Aaron. Thus do We reward the doers of good.
(85) And Zechariah and John and Jesus and Elias - and all were of the righteous.
(86) And Ishmael and Elisha and Jonah and Lot - and all [of them] We preferred over the worlds.
(87) And [some] among their fathers and their descendants and their brothers - and We chose them and We guided them to a straight path.
(88) That is the guidance of Allah by which He guides whomever He wills of His servants. But if they had associated others with Allah, then worthless for them would be whatever they were doing.

God tells his final Prophet Mohammed peace and blessing be upon him in Quran at Surat Alanbya:
(25) And We sent not before you any messenger except that We revealed to him that, "There is no deity except Me, so worship Me."

In response to your comment, Christians, who followed the real teachings of Eisa peace be upon him, will go to heaven. However, the real teachings of Eisa peace be upon him is to follow the final prophet and servant of God who be sent after him.
Eisa peace be upon him came with good news, the good news was the final message, and The Prophet that all nations will follow him, is about to be sent.
Allah confirms this in Quran that the only religion to follow is Islam.
(85) And whoever desires other than Islam as religion - never will it be accepted from him, and he, in the Hereafter, will be among the losers.

Ahmed - do you agree women have sperm and it comes from breast area? This is in the Quran and it clearly shows it’s scientifically wrong, therefore, a false religion.

 

[MemeFan]

Sound waves and light waves when you get down to it. We are arranging them and discovering patterns in them which God already instituted.

Sound and light wawes have nothing with art.

Information, art and ideas exists in non-material realm. They don't need material itself to exist. Picture of Mona Liza is Mona Liza no matter do you see her in museum, on mobile phone or book. Her essence remain the same.

But since we can only communicate in material realm, we have to express information, art and ideas using material. But expression ≠ essence.

Same ideas can be express as video, text or song. Declaration of indepence can be read, you can hear somebody reading it, somebody can sing it, you can watch video on Youtube showing text, video can sing it, etc....

You claim to be Christian and I have to explain to you existence of non-material realm. C'mon. Christianity denies materialism in philosophical sense. Materialism is that only matter exist. It's so hard to accept that Lord, angels etc... do exist in non-material and can show themselves in material realm? If they can, other things can too.

 

[FollowingHim]

In response to your comment, Christians, who followed the real teachings of Eisa peace be upon him, will go to heaven. However, the real teachings of Eisa peace be upon him is to follow the final prophet and servant of God who be sent after him.
Eisa peace be upon him came with good news, the good news was the final message, and The Prophet that all nations will follow him, is about to be sent.

I am curious as to where you get this from, scripturally.

The Quran is clear that persons referred to as "Christians" would receive the reward. If they were following Muhammad they would no longer have been referred to as "Christians", but as "Muslims". Today, when people convert from Christianity to Islam, do we call them Christians or Muslims? Does anyone turn up to your mosque and say "I'm a Christian" and be accepted by everyone else around them as a fellow follower of Muhammad's teaching even though they all call them a Christian? Certainly not. Converts are no longer Christian.

 

[Ahmad]

I am curious as to where you get this from, scripturally.

The Quran is clear that persons referred to as "Christians" would receive the reward. If they were following Muhammad they would no longer have been referred to as "Christians", but as "Muslims". Today, when people convert from Christianity to Islam, do we call them Christians or Muslims? Does anyone turn up to your mosque and say "I'm a Christian" and be accepted by everyone else around them as a fellow follower of Muhammad's teaching even though they all call them a Christian? Certainly not. Converts are no longer Christian.

Sure, the Bible is full of prophesies about The final prophet who is coming after Eisa peace be upon him.
What led many Christians and Jews at Prophet Mohammed peace be upon him to Islam? They confirmed he is the one the Bible talked about.

 

[JudahYAHites]

Sure, the Bible is full of prophesies about The final prophet who is coming after Eisa peace be upon him.
What led many Christians and Jews at Prophet Mohammed peace be upon him to Islam? They confirmed he is the one the Bible talked about.

Share the Bible prophesies here, the Bible verses.