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Whose birthday is it really?

Here's my take on it. This is me the historian coming out here, not me the priest, but here goes:

Jesus' actual birthday is obviously not recorded in Scripture. The only two arguments for an actual birth date that I can find that seem to hold any water would land it on the Feast of Tabernacles (because he "tabernacled" among us) or the Feast of Trumpets (because trumpets announce the arrival of kings). The actual year, depending on which historian you want to debate with, would be between 4 B.C. and 2 B.C. (St. Bede of Wearmouth who gave us the A.D./B.C. system of dating was a bit off in his calculations.)

As to December 25th, in the early 7th Century the question of Christians not having any sort of celebration in mid-Winter was brought up with great frequency. "What do we do about it?" was the question. It is very difficult for Christians to go about their daily business when the Germanic peoples around you are celebrating Yule (Saturnalia was dead because the Roman state religion was no longer practiced).

The solution was kind of genious: the Feast of the Annuciation (celebrating the St. Gabriel visiting the Blessed Virgin to announce her Divine pregnancy) had long been established on 25 March. If one added nine months to that, 25 December is what you get. It gave Christians a mid-Winter celebration based on a Scriptural event of great importance, but set it up on a rival date that lands at least two days after the last day the Winter Solstice could land on (the actual date varies from the 19th to the 23rd of December). It also allowed for a corporate celebration of an event that was important enough to be remembered in Scripture, but whose date was not important enough to the meaning of the event to be recorded. (The event, and not the date was what mattered or Scripture would have recorded the date, I feel comfortable enough to say.) Christmas, whatever actual day it landed on, is precisely what made the Passion, Death, and Resurrection possible. It is also what shows us that the Gnostics are wrong because it asserts a real Incarnation, and not an illusion meant to look like one as they claim.

Now, personally, I don't go for all the christianized trappings adopted from the Germanic Yule celebration. The lights, the trees, and the wreaths are not part of my practice at all. To me, the idea that "the fruit never falls far from the tree," is more true in the spiritual realm than in the corporeal one. I don't allow them in my home. We exchange gifts, but they are not wrapped; they are simply given.

And that is my take.
 
I think Jeremiah 10, should be read by everyone at this time of year. The only 2 places in the Scriptures that birthdays were being celebrated, turned into disasters. Why would anyone teach their offspring to defy the Creator?
Our trouble as a Nation today, mostly is caused by the people's failure to heed the Creator's sayings. Why as a Nation do You keep the Devil's Holidays, but refuse to observe the Creator's Holy days. It's called Commerce.
Upon studying the Scriptures, You should come to the conclussion that the Mesiah intended for His death and resurection be celebrated by His people, not His birthday, or He would have told You the proper day.
I think Deuteronomy 28, is where We're at today, because of these failures. Take a very close look at the State of Our Nation.

Me,
 
golden2seal said:
I think Jeremiah 10, should be read by everyone at this time of year. The only 2 places in the Scriptures that birthdays were being celebrated, turned into disasters.
We see Scriptural passages that condemn those that follow the stars. Does that mean we should not study astronomy?


golden2seal said:
Why as a Nation do You keep the Devil's Holidays, but refuse to observe the Creator's Holy days.
I am assuming here -- and please correct me if I am wrong -- that you are of the school that uncommanded holy days are forbidden because they were not commanded. If that is the case, how do you justify Jesus'/Yeshua's/Y'shua's own observance of Purim and Chanukkah, neither of which were commanded? There is no command to not add any days. Additional feast days that celebrate God are not only added in Scripture, but recognized by Jesus Himself.

golden2seal said:
Upon studying the Scriptures, You should come to the conclussion that the Mesiah intended for His death and resurection be celebrated by His people, not His birthday, or He would have told You the proper day.
I think you miss the point. The Scriptures thought the event of His birth so important that they not only recorded the event, but its announcement beforehand the the Blessed Virgin, the announcement of the Forerunner's birth, the Forerunner's presentation in the temple, and the arrival of the Magi/Wise Men to bring gifts and worship the Child. That's an awful lot of effort and importance for something God doesn't want celebrated. It is the event, not the day, that matters. Also remember that if the Passion, Death, and Resurrection are important enough to be celebrated, it is because the Incarnation happened to begin with.

Let me ask you this, as far as celebrating the Death and Resurrection. Do you celebrate it according to the Judaean calendar or the Samaritan calendar? There is a lot of confusion among historians and theologians over which day Jesus was crucified on because of the significant difference in the details of the Passion Narratives in the Gospels. The reason is that Jesus celebrated the Passover/Peseach with His Disciples on the Samaritan Calendar (he was accused of being a Samaritan for such things) and was Crucified on the Judaean calendar. Look at King Hezekiah's observance of Passover/Peseach. It was a month late! Is it the day, or is it the content of the observance that mattered? Shouldn't Hezekiah (by our human thinking, at least) have simply waited and promised to pick up precisely where the Hebrew calendar said they were in the year and promise God to be ready for the next event on the calendar?

I'll stand with Scripture here. If it is important enough to be celebrated by angels, shepherds, and even faith-filled gentiles, then it is important for me to follow in their footsteps. Everything in Scripture about the life of the Savior/Messiah/Meshiacha is worthy not only of observance, but celebration because it was important enough to record in the Inspired Scriptures.
 
Southlander; If You want to celebrate any of those things, don't let anything I say stand in the way of Your happiness. I believe You have a good heart, because I've read some of Your other Posts. If it was not for that I would have a different opinion.
I'm sorry if My Post rubbed You a little wrong, I wrote that post to make people think.
Your writing says a lot about You. You say You "stand" on the Scriptures, Reading and understanding them would be a lot better. You don't need to try to persuade Me of anything, You're obviously trying to sort it out for Yourself, that's a good thing. Don't base Your knowledge on assumptions, and presumptions. Assumptions and Presumptions, are what's used against the people in the courts, to their demise. unless rebutted.
You're right about those that follow the Stars for a form of worship. Your term as wrote, is a little misleading for others. Your combination of Your first statement and the following question, is extreamly misleading, wheather accidently, or intentially, and has absolutely nothing to to do with the topic of My Post.
In Your second paragraph You are assumeing what I believe, that's a wrong thing to do. I don't work on assumptions, only facts, What I believe, has no bearing on any truth in the Scriptures. Therefore; what does the Scriptures say?
You can't persuade Me of anything on this matter, I have studied the Scriptures in depth, far beyond the shallow teachings You're accustomed to.
I do believe You have good intentions, just a little misguided.
Don't be misled by the modern Institutional teachings, and You'll do OK.

Me,
 
I agree in regards to searching the Word and would appreciate specific references from both of you when time permits. We can study the Word together, seeking first God. If we disagree, let us do so according to 2 Timothy 4:2 (with patience and teaching).
 
... And PLEASE! Let's be sure to remember, on this site of all sites, that "By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if you have love one to another." John 13:35

Says nothing about dates, calendars, yule logs, or my red & green Christmas PJ outfit! :lol:

The earth is the LORD's / YHWH's! And all the calendars & wreaths in it. I reckon He looks down on us, and says, "Is your heart loving? Excellent! Having fun? Great! I'm enjoying watching." :o But no, I don't quite have a reference for that, except for the several verses about His eyes being on us. :roll:
 
Whose birthday is it really? The first Post referenced December 25. That's a fair question. It's the day that many people entered this world, but it's not the day Jesus Christ entered this world, as a physical being.
If You study the history of the celebration, now known as Christmas, it goes all the way back to the City of Babylon and it's builder. Yes, Nimrod, the Creator calls Him the most wicked man to ever live. He was so wicked, He married His mother, therefore; the mother child of Christmas. Check it out, the truth of all things is not hid from those who really want to know.

NOW, for something really worth knowing, that You won't be taught in any Public School Systems or organized Religons.

Who is this man called "Jesus Christ" by most religious people today? He's far greater than the shallow teachings of the modern Church world. Begin to learn what religon and politics can't afford for You to know.

I'll give You a small start, in hopes that You'll keep going.

"Parthia" by Steven M. Collins; 4 books, there's much more to most things.

Me,
 
golden2seal said:
But either way, I am who I am, and I pray that despite all my flaws I might somehow bring God some measure of glory.

golden2seal: I appreciate your studies and your unwavering commitment to truth and your desire to bring God glory however it's hard to receive your words because I'm not picking up your love and respect. It would help me if you could work on delivering all the same hard-hitting truth (and zingers) but in a candy shell of respect and love. Think M&M's candy - melts in your mouth, not in your hand. :-)

"People don't care how much you know until they know how much you care." -John C. Maxwell
 
gs,
I too am much more caustic when I expect rejection.

My wife ordered all 4 of his books yesterday, will study them with great interest. We read the excerpt about the Scythians and were very intrigued.

As far as the op;
birthday, schmirthday :D
I tell my family to not expect worship and presents on their b-day. If anyone deserves honor and presents, it would start with their mother and include the father. They are the ones that did all of the heavy lifting! ;)
"But the Wise Men brought......."
Uh huh....the baby was in desperate need of gold, frankincense and myrrh. :D
Ever consider the fact that they were either extra baggage to drag around while running from Herod, or more likely they were the cash that was needed to facilitate the run?
So the precedent really is; Help the parents out with what they need.
We try to practice random acts of kindness throughout the year. It is more fun when it is unexpected.

The Feast o Dedication (Hanukah, and also celebrated as the Festival of Lights) is a very pleasant celebration and has been even more endearing since I came into the understanding that Yeshua chose to attend it in Jerusalem.

Jhn 10:22 And it was at Jerusalem the feast of the dedication, and it was winter.
 
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