Why Jews don't say the sacred name of G-d & Maybe nobody should

[IshChayil]

I hear you Ish and I can follow your rationale. However, I personally don’t feel that the burden of proof has been met for me in this thread and it really seems to be a tangent IMO. Mostly due to passages that do use either The Tetragrammaton or the like. There’s also the issue of being called by His name.

Perhaps you have made headway with others and thats good, fine and well. Just don’t think that your platform gives you justification to compel conformance from others.

So amazing that not a single Greek New testament uses G-d's sacred name. I'm so glad the Messiah taught us to pray "Abba father" and not "The Name".
Also glad the disciples and paul never wrote it in their writings. I guess they knew what they were doing. THink I'll stick with how the Messiah prayed, and if he didn't mention his name even while praying, and his disciples didn't even mention it in their holy writings ... how much more so I'm not gonna write it in profane, bulletin board writings.

You sure need a BIG burden little brother....
totally fine, but surely you can agree it's not outlandish to see things this way right?

so to be clear, your question about G-d vs. God is entirely unrelated to G-d's Holy name.
The question is, itself, a distraction, a red herring as it were.

 

[Verifyveritas76]

I just think personally, its taking things to extremes. I’m not gonna worry or be accountable about what someone else does with his name.

 

[IshChayil]

I just think personally, its taking things to extremes. I’m not gonna worry or be accountable about what someone else does with his name.

Yeah that's easy for you to say b/c you don't believe it's a sin. If you did, then you would be violating the commandment to "indeed correct your brother and do not stand on his blood, I am Hashem" ... if using His name is a sin. As you know I do believe it's a sin so I am not allowed to ignore the "treating his name lightly" as it were.

If I, like you, did not believe it was treating the name lightly, I also would have no interest in wasting my time here when I need to do class prep.

 

[Verifyveritas76]

You asked this identical question about a year ago, but I'll answer it again...
nobody removes letters from Hashem... not ever...

Thats kind of my point. Hashem is not his actual name, and nobody thinks twice about keeping all the letters in it. In like manner God is not his actual name, so why should you care if all the letters are there?

 

[IshChayil]

Thats kind of my point. Hashem is not his actual name, and nobody thinks twice about keeping all the letters in it. In like manner God is not his actual name, so why should you care if all the letters are there?

oy I just can't do it any more Verify. Please go re-read the thread on the name little brother.
If you still don't get it after a couple days I'll re-splain it... for now I ask you to obey your own edict and stop discussing the name stuff in this thread.
Do as you told us to do and go over to the thread I created about that subject.

############# edit ###############
this was originally in another thread, hence my request for Verify to re-read this one while he's making a non-sensical claim that saying a literal name is the same as saying literally something like "that name".

 

[Verifyveritas76]

Yeah that's easy for you to say b/c you don't believe it's a sin. If you did, then you would be violating the commandment to "indeed correct your brother and do not stand on his blood, I am Hashem" ... if using His name is a sin. As you know I do believe it's a sin so I am not allowed to ignore the "treating his name lightly" as it were.

If I, like you, did not believe it was treating the name lightly, I also would have no interest in wasting my time here when I need to do class prep.

Thats one of those “principles” that can be abused on so many levels. This is why every man gives account for his own actions. This can quickly become an exhausting exercise in futility, (making yourself accountable for everyone else’s beliefs and actions).

 

[IshChayil]

Thats one of those “principles” that can be abused on so many levels. This is why every man gives account for his own actions. This can quickly become an exhausting exercise in futility, (making yourself accountable for everyone else’s beliefs and actions).

So you are saying we shouldn't correct brothers through extremely soft requests using words like please, and phrases like "I'd really appreciate it" and "thanks brother" because in your words "that gets abused on so many levels."
Exaggerate much Verify? Yes such abuse!
too many uses of the word "please" and "I'd really apprciate it" and question words to soften the request like "would it be ok?" I totally see the abuse of correction you are referring to.

Yes a non-torah keeper may see it that way.... but I don't think so.

sometimes keeping His commands is exhaustive (to use your word). yet our sweet messiah reminds us, "ean agapate me teresin entolon moi" "if you love me, keep my commandments".
Love ain't easy...

 

[Verifyveritas76]

oy I just can't do it any more Verify. Please go re-read the thread on the name little brother.
If you still don't get it after a couple days I'll re-splain it... for now I ask you to obey your own edict and stop discussing the name stuff in this thread.
Do as you told us to do and go over to the thread I created about that subject.

The “edict” was to stop the personal stuff. Not stop conversation on the name.

Debate or present your own knowledge or information about it but end the personal bickering.

Though if you wanted to continue this conversation, that thread would be more appropriate.

 

[Pacman]

Thats kind of my point. Hashem is not his actual name, and nobody thinks twice about keeping all the letters in it. In like manner God is not his actual name, so why should you care if all the letters are there?

Joe I think part of what you are missing is that Keith actually used the real (or at least a close estimation) of the name he didn’t just use the title God...

 

[IshChayil]

I hear you Ish and I can follow your rationale. However, I personally don’t feel that the burden of proof has been met for me in this thread and it really seems to be a tangent IMO. Mostly due to passages that do use either The Tetragrammaton or the like. There’s also the issue of being called by His name.

Perhaps you have made headway with others and thats good, fine and well. Just don’t think that your platform gives you justification to compel conformance from others.

What compel? I asked the man a dang question verbatim:
"Also I have a personal request, if you don't mind not spelling out G-d's name here I'd really appreciate it.
Thanks brother!" to which he had a hissy fit. Yeah @Pacman is right, I'm not talking about "GOD" as "G-d's name" I mean the one that starts with the letter "Y". Did you miss that?

 

[IshChayil]

Joe I think part of what you are missing is that Keith actually used the real (or at least a close estimation) of the name he didn’t just use the title God...

Thanks Pacman, I didn't understand why Verify was going on about G - o - d I think you are right.
I think he didn't read what Keith had written. Why on Earth would I ask someone to not write "God"? It's not even Hebrew.
Is that what happened on your end @Verifyveritas76 ?

 

[rockfox]

What compel? I asked the man a dang question verbatim:
"Also I have a personal request, if you don't mind not spelling out G-d's name here I'd really appreciate it.
Thanks brother!" to which he had a hissy fit.
Fair as always in your presentation Verify.... Amazing how predictable you are

No, you politely told him what to do. Compel is correct in the sense that you are trying control what other people say, how they speak.

I will not change my language to suit Jewish cultural sensibilities. My culture is under attack enough the way it is.

 

[IshChayil]

No, you politely told him what to do. Compel is correct in the sense that you are trying control what other people say, how they speak.

I will not change my language to suit Jewish cultural sensibilities. My culture is under attack enough the way it is.

what exactly is "Your culture" Rockfox?
Anti-torah Christmas trees with pagan bunny rabbits and Ishtar eggs?
Yeah, that's gonna be under attack for a lot longer.
The real birthday is Sept. 11 not Dec. 25 winter solstice fiction.

If you were the one who'd wrote it I wouldn't have bothered to ask; I already know how you feel about our ways, you've made it clear on numerous occasions.
To your credit, I've never seen you spell out the name. Most people here don't seem to realize that it's ALSO Gentile tradition to safegaurd the name. I think it's the darn Jehovah's witnesses who started making people want to say it again as they criticized the King James, NIV, NASB, ESV, NAV, and other translations for safeguarding the name with LORD (as does the Greek as well with Kyrios)

 

[The Revolting Man]

Thanks Pacman, I didn't understand why Verify was going on about G - o - d I think you are right.
I think he didn't read what Keith had written. Why on Earth would I ask someone to not write "God"? It's not even Hebrew.
Is that what happened on your end @Verifyveritas76 ?

I have what maybe feels like a trivial question but please know I am being serious.

All of the men in my immediate family; my three brothers, six of my seven sons (one day to be all seven please God) and myself have first names that end with -iah. Mine is Zechariah. It means (as I know you know) God Remembers or some alternate construction of thereof.

As this is just another spelling of the three letter name I think we're arguing about. I was wondering how the proliferation of -iah names in the Bible fed in to this topic.

 

[IshChayil]

I have what maybe feels like a trivial question but please know I am being serious.

All of the men in my immediate family; my three brothers, six of my seven sons (one day to be all seven please God) and myself have first names that end with -iah. Mine is Zechariah. It means (as I know you know) God Remembers or some alternate construction of thereof.

As this is just another spelling of the three letter name I think we're arguing about. I was wondering how the proliferation of -iah names in the Bible fed in to this topic.

Not trivial at all Zech, My Hebrew name also has this word in it. This is what I meant when I mentioned that His FULL, four letter name, is NOT in any of the Hebrew names of people in the bible.
Only the nickname version which we see in "Hallelu-jah" the last part is the nickname version which reminds us of the full name without saying; so embedded in the HEbrew bible that all the people's names with His name are this shortened, monosyllabic version. that's what the -iah is in your family names. the English -ia approxiamates Hebrew 'Ya" and the "h' well taht's the Hebrew "H".
This is the shorter version of G-d's name which IS pronouncable though should still be treated with reverence and preferably used only in Worship or prayer and perhaps when teaching the word for those who feel very strongly the need.

If not in prayer Jews will say "Qah" instead but this word they will freely say if in prayer as that's it's purpose.
Hallelu-jah for such great family names Zec!

 

[The Revolting Man]

Not trivial at all Zech, My Hebrew name also has this word in it. This is what I meant when I mentioned that His FULL, four letter name, is NOT in any of the Hebrew names of people in the bible.
Only the nickname version which we see in "Hallelu-jah" the last part is the nickname version which reminds us of the full name without saying; so embedded in the HEbrew bible that all the people's names with His name are this shortened, monosyllabic version. that's what the -iah is in your family names. the English -ia approxiamates Hebrew 'Ya" and the "h' well taht's the Hebrew "H".
This is the shorter version of G-d's name which IS pronouncable though should still be treated with reverence and preferably used only in Worship or prayer and perhaps when teaching the word for those who feel very strongly the need.

If not in prayer Jews will say "Qah" instead but this word they will freely say if in prayer as that's it's purpose.
Hallelu-jah for such great family names Zec!

Alright, you did cover that. It just didn't click until now. Thank you! You'd never guess what my oldest son's name is. I won't tell it here as I would be pretty surprised if he wasn't the only one.

 

[rockfox]

what exactly is "Your culture" Rockfox?
Anti-torah Christmas trees with pagan bunny rabbits and Ishtar eggs?
Yeah, that's gonna be under attack for a lot longer.
The real birthday is Sept. 11 not Dec. 25 winter solstice fiction.

If you were the one who'd wrote it I wouldn't have bothered to ask; I already know how you feel about our ways, you've made it clear on numerous occasions.
To your credit, I've never seen you spell out the name. Most people here don't seem to realize that it's ALSO Gentile tradition to safegaurd the name. I think it's the darn Jehovah's witnesses who started making people want to say it again as they criticized the King James, NIV, NASB, ESV, NAV, and other translations for safeguarding the name with LORD (as does the Greek as well with Kyrios)

It's funny how wrong someone can be. You must be confusing me for someone else.

 

[IshChayil]

It's funny how wrong someone can be. You must be confusing me for someone else.

It's possible, but I do also often find myself shaking my head with the same thought when I read one of your posts to me
All I know is what you've shown me bra
Although... it's now 11:31 am here and I haven't slept yet so .... I may indeed be wrong about you
Are you a closet Torah keeper? Now I gotta know. Sometimes I confuse repeated and predictable attacks on Jewish/Israeli culture with attacks on Torah (not the same thing I know but you can see how a fella could confuse the 2).

 

[rockfox]

Are you a closet Torah keeper? Now I gotta know.

Define Torah keeper.

ometimes I confuse repeated and predictable attacks on Jewish/Israeli culture with attacks on Torah

Oversensitive much? What repeated and predictable attacks?

 

[IshChayil]

Define Torah keeper.

Oversensitive much? What repeated and predictable attacks?

Bro I'm just to you piling on whenever you get the chance and any time you can say something against Israel you're locked and loaded so yeah. I'm still wondering where I'm "so wrong" about your positions

Torah-keeper: That's quite obtuse of you to feign ignorance on that meaning after being on this site over a year but I'll play along:
Rockfox, a Torah-keeper is understood by everyone on this site (except apparently you) as someone who believes the Law of Moses still stands and still must be obeyed today. This includes the Sabbath day being Friday night to Saturday, the biblical festivals of Passover, Shavuot, and Sukkot (Booths), Yom Teruah (some call New Year), and the Day of Atonement.
Torah-keepers keep the dietary laws and do not eat abominations such as Pork, lobster, squid, shellfish, shrimps etc.
Work on Sabbath and festivals is absolutely forbidden. Most Torah-keepers find the Pagan roots of Christmas and Easter to be deplorable and do not celebrate those holidays any more. There's more but since we are just pretending to not know what is meant by the term "Torah-keeper" here I'll stop.