Out of curiosity, what do you expect the result will be other then the church setting into motion that he gets formally served with no trespassing papers?
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Support Wife is taking kids to the church I was kicked out of. I told her not to but she will continue.
- Thread starter Michaeltreeguy
- Start date
Out of curiosity, what do you expect the result will be other then the church setting into motion that he gets formally served with no trespassing papers?
@IndianaLife She IS being disobedient
1 Peter 3:1 KJV — Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;
1 Corinthians 14:34 KJV — Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
Ephesians 5:22 KJV — Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
Colossians 3:18 KJV — Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord.
Titus 2:5 KJV — To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.
The issue is that this is now a spiritual battle pray for wisdom in this @Michaeltreeguy
If he doesn't go, they'll fill her head w garbage. If he does go, he may be trespassed in which they grossly violate his authority as head of family and house, but they also fully justify him pulling family out of that false church.
Let me be blunt, his position as head of the house is in a thousand pieces anyway. If he tells her not go to a church, she will go just to spite him.
At this point he cannot salvage this. Based on his own post, he was told what her red line is, he gambled by crossing it, and lost a power play.
If he puts himself into a position where he gets served papers, he is just making the job of the lawyers/Judge easier.
Negative. If he does not fight for his family and stand on truth, his children will later be angry with him. He has to take a bold and radical stand and fight as Yeshua would... and that doesn't mean letting his woman take kids to a place that publicly profanes their father. Might lose either way, but better to bow up than cower. The leader and elders of that congregation are wicked if they try to separate him from his family!!!!
Seriously, what does the church get out of entertaining him? It is not about logic or reason at this point, it is about power. They kicked him out, and if they do not keep him out then that makes the church leadership look weak. It is not just about winning this battle, it is also about about demonstrating to others that it is wrong to oppose you in the first place.
In this situation (one I have been in) there is only one course of action.
The husband must first, calmly and simply, without debate or explanation of any kind, inform the woman that she is out of fellowship with him and will bear the brunt of her decisions herself.
DO NOT LET HER ROPE YOU INTO A DEBATE!
Then he has to go and file for divorce and initiate a custody battle so that he can establish what level of his legitimate authority he is going to be permitted to exercise in his children’s lives. This doesn’t mean he has to go through with it but he can not be a passive victim of the state and crazed woman with the bit between her teeth.
I am the king of the grand gesture but you can not be an effective father from inside a jail cell and they will jail a father and then use that jailing as a reason to restrict his access to his children. I have also experienced all of this.
Ideally a compromise of some kind could be reached but most likely this woman is wanting to take these children to this church because it is rejecting this man. The only way forward is to begin the process of reducing her power over them.
Of course you could and should try just waking up and getting them ready yourself and taking them somewhere else, or taking them to a different service, maybe an evening service or a Wednesday night.
There is little more damaging to a father’s authority than for his children to see him shackled and led away in chains; especially if that is used as an excuse to then get a restraining order that keeps him away from the children. It took me years to get regular access to my kids back.
Fight where this fight is going to be fought, in the court. Fight hard. But fight smart. There is nothing to be gained by being arrested for trespassing in front of your children.
The husband must first, calmly and simply, without debate or explanation of any kind, inform the woman that she is out of fellowship with him and will bear the brunt of her decisions herself.
DO NOT LET HER ROPE YOU INTO A DEBATE!
Then he has to go and file for divorce and initiate a custody battle so that he can establish what level of his legitimate authority he is going to be permitted to exercise in his children’s lives. This doesn’t mean he has to go through with it but he can not be a passive victim of the state and crazed woman with the bit between her teeth.
I am the king of the grand gesture but you can not be an effective father from inside a jail cell and they will jail a father and then use that jailing as a reason to restrict his access to his children. I have also experienced all of this.
Ideally a compromise of some kind could be reached but most likely this woman is wanting to take these children to this church because it is rejecting this man. The only way forward is to begin the process of reducing her power over them.
Of course you could and should try just waking up and getting them ready yourself and taking them somewhere else, or taking them to a different service, maybe an evening service or a Wednesday night.
There is little more damaging to a father’s authority than for his children to see him shackled and led away in chains; especially if that is used as an excuse to then get a restraining order that keeps him away from the children. It took me years to get regular access to my kids back.
Fight where this fight is going to be fought, in the court. Fight hard. But fight smart. There is nothing to be gained by being arrested for trespassing in front of your children.
First of all, can you explain how she is not being disobedient?
Let me backtrack. Do you, or do you not, acknowledge that the husband is the Head of the wife, and holds dominion over her? If you do not, then you are in conflict with Scripture.
Do you, or do you not, recognize that his wife is going to a Church that has chosen to reject truth, and that she is doing this against her husband's wishes? If you don't, then you have a very different understanding of the facts than... well, than anyone who understands the facts.
You say he has "sprung something on her." So, he was supposed to walk on eggshells?
You say he is acting like she's a villain. I don't see a single word where this is said or implied. I see plenty of times where she is openly treating her husband, her Patriarch, with disdain and disrespect, and how she is deliberately seeking out counsel that she knows will be hostile to him.
You ask if he has tried having a calm, rational conversation with her. I can't help but notice your assumption that this is not how he has discussed most things.
Your posts sound awfully matriarchal in nature.
Because he's raging on the internet about his wife going to church, giving us one side of a story, while also having apparently been kicked out of the church for some reason only lightly alluded at.
I've been moderating online spaces for almost 3 decades now, when people have some passionate claim or complaint, you're likely hearing a fraction of the truth.
I don't know if you are male or female, married or not, but I'm hazarding a guess that he hasn't tried to have just a calm, civil conversation with her about it and instead, "well God said, the Bible says, you're wrong, I'm the man" based on several men on this forum and the simple fact that many of us men are stubborn and will argue until we pass out instead of trying to have a civil conversation about a clearly heated issue.
I'm sorry - I'm new here and trying to figure out how to find discussions that I might (1) profit from or (2) contribute. I believe this is where I can contribute. My wife was never a believer in poly. She REFUSED to believe. But that doesn't matter now (the kids were out of the nest by then) - I just seek marriage to someone(s) who is/are of like mind. (Hah! I guess that is similar to also seeking a Church needing a poly understanding pastor) However - - -
I think "FollowingHim" gave the best advice thus far as it concerns the immediate future. And I quote: "You could tell your wife that your decision is that you will all worship together as a family this Sunday, this is not up for negotiation, but you leave it her decision as to where that will be and will gladly take the family anywhere she chooses."
That covers the now of it. I think some have been too hard on you here but there COULD BE truth in everyone's counsel to some extent and you need to find that truth. As a Pastor who discovered poly truth in the last 50 years, and not continually preaching it to my wife or my congregations, I never-the-less made occasional mention of it where mention was merited. That would STILL seem, to those who do not want to hear it - as if you were trying to cram it down their throats. But your ministry as a husband, as my ministry as a pastor, is to teach, teach, teach - and that does not mean just poly. Become a REAL student of the Scriptures and let God teach you and make you a teacher to mankind. Oh the Scriptures are so powerful and so enlightening. You will quickly discover there are MANY errors in virtually every Christian and in every Church you attend. (well, except mine of course, but then - that is a given) Back to serious - Ours is not to condemn but to teach - with love, conviction and the power of the Holy Spirit.
For clarity, the pastor called out the husband in front of the congregation. Then he proceeded to preach a series of sermons to force his unbiblical (though 'orthodox') position on the congregation.
I know the husband has studied and has to the best of his ability shared w his woman. She pointed him to the elders who blasted him andvthe pastor went on the personal rampage.
We won't win anyone over by cramming it down their throats. There is NO reason a person should be disfellowshipped however unless he is a moral degenerate, or disruptive, or openly abusive of the Church's statement of faith (which should be a reaffirmation of what the Scriptures teach). But since they have taken that step, it would be the responsibility of the family (yes, the whole family - to wipe the dust of that church off their feet as they depart). But if the wife is insistent upon attending there, then the husband must attend with her - then let the fur fly. If the wife really wants to put herself (and the child) through that - then bring it on. She won't - or shouldn't. I would have loved to have had this gentleman in one of the Churches I pastored, but I would not want him bringing this up every time we met - ONLY when such teaching was fitting according to the context of the discussion.
First of all, he's not "raging" at anyone. His posts have been quite calm. You appear to equate "being guilty of having both a Y-Chromosome and an opinion" with "violence."
As for "he's telling one side of the story," uh, yes. As has every Human Being in history. I will never be able to prove this but I would suspect you have never once in your life accused a woman of "only giving one side of the story" and that you habitually take every word uttered by a woman as proven truth. It makes me wonder how much fun I could have by pretending to have been an eyewitness to the discussion and insisting his wife was a psychopath, but I digress.
As for the reason he was kicked out of the church, that's not "lightly alluded to (kindly note the word isn't 'at')." He's been quite open about the fact that he was kicked out for teaching Biblical polygyny.
...You know, the tenet that is a large part of the raison d'etre of this entire site?
...You... do know this is a Biblical website, right?
...And you do know the Bible restates hundreds of times that His will for Humanity is Patriarchal leadership and female submission, right?
I ask because your entire thesis seems to be "he's male and is therefore guilty, and is therefore wrong, and must therefore repent of daring to tell his wife anything that she didn't want to hear. He should have known pleasing his wife comes before pleasing God."
I thought my screen name made it fairly obvious. I'm female, and a second wife.
Update. I stood my ground and refused to let her go by herself. She has not insisted on going this far. We are continuing to navigate our marriage. We disagree but I will not leave her and she will not leave me at this point. There is hope. Also she has lost a lot of weight and I’m concerned for her health. Thanks for your prayers
Find a new church and begin to more intentionally lead your family. Leave poly on the back burner. It is a necessary truth, but one that remain under the surface as a subset to patriarchy.
Maybe in the future you can pick it back up, but key is to build headship and solid patriarchy first.
The only reply to that is not to COMPLETELY leave poly in the background, but mostly.
I can agree with that.
That's great news and an excellent first step. You're in the lead now so don't stop, keep moving. Lead gently but decisively to restore your relationship with your wife and family. And may Almighty God bless you as you continue this journey. Shalom