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Churchianity Lacks PRACTICAL Answers For Single Women!
- Thread starter Frank S
- Start date
Ruth realized she didn't have a covering, and needed one, which is why she went to Boaz in the first place.
Any man attempting to walk out with my sister had better consider her Father, and her brothers! Just saying.
Any man attempting to walk out with my sister had better consider her Father, and her brothers! Just saying.
Just to be clear, I am making a distinction between getting to know someone in a group setting and asking someone to go on a hike to get to know someone.
Any move or suggestion to isolate one of my children for any reason is highly suspect and subject to extreme predjudice.
This kind of suggestion or approach, especially at a retreat, is NOT received well or considered as appropriate behavior.
Any move or suggestion to isolate one of my children for any reason is highly suspect and subject to extreme predjudice.
This kind of suggestion or approach, especially at a retreat, is NOT received well or considered as appropriate behavior.
J
James A
Guest
I am very uncomfortable- I never said the word retreat and was using the posts as a answer to the original thread post. This has been blown way out of proportion. I go to retreats for a time with God
Oh yeah. I don't trust hikers. Very suspicious breed. People that are walking without a destination in mind, just to 'experience stuff'. Sounds like a symptom of an irresponsible lackadaisical soul. kidding!
I get where you're coming from though. I absolutely knew Rainy for quite a while in a mostly group setting before I, uh, isolated her.
This is a rather confusing thread for me lol I'm not sure how you can use Ruth and Boaz as an example for an initial courtship as Ruth was a widow who stayed with her dead husband's mother out of love. I believe Boaz was not her blood relation... No I know she wasnt Boaz was her mother in law's relation. So I'm not sure how this plays in lol her mil pushed her toward Boaz as he showed her favor in the fields and basically told the men to keep their hands off her. There is all kinds to this story that is NOT traditional courtship..
It sounds like you have identified your next serious study session!
My take on it is that unless some scholar can show me otherwise, there is no word for courting in the bible.
My personal suspicion is that some things are not so easily quantified into 'proper' and improper'
Look: here is my scripture Proverbs 30:18-19
18 There be three things which are too wonderful for me, yea, four which I know not:
19 The way of an eagle in the air; the way of a serpent upon a rock; the way of a ship in the midst of the sea; and the way of a man with a maid.
To which I can say I don't really get how it works either. I found a maid and I got with her and I'm really not sure how, aside from I trusted God. Relationships are weird. Humans are weird. One man will ask for foreskins hoping you will die trying to get them, and another will ask 7 years of service hoping to send you with the wrong daughter. Ultimately I think a lot depends on what each girl's father thinks is appropriate. (You know, since he's the one 'giving her in marriage' and in certain cultures setting the bride price)
Sometimes things aren't as cut and dry as we would like.
@KatyBeth and I got to know each other because the two of us were in the same group of friends at college. There was one night we ended up just the two of us sitting in the common area of my dorm with people coming and going while we watched TV and talked. That night we realized we both had an interest in getting to know each other as potential spouses. The next day I called her father and asked if I could get to know his daughter as a potential wife out of my respect for her father's headship. We made sure to talk to her father before getting to know each other as potential spouses eventhough we did get to know each other due to being in a group of mutual friends first.
While my daughters are still young I have been trying to come up with how to handle this and this is not a fully formed idea yet but better than current culture. While naturally I would expect any guy interested in getting to know them as potential spouses he would approach me first since I look after her physical and spiritual wellbeing until her husband does. But something better I believe would be if there is a guy I think would make a good husband for my daughter I would talk to him to see if he is interested in getting to know her as a potential wife. Or if one of my daughters are interested in a guy they would come to me and I would decide if it was a good choice and if so I would talk to him. Something more on the side of proactive than reactive.
@KatyBeth and I got to know each other because the two of us were in the same group of friends at college. There was one night we ended up just the two of us sitting in the common area of my dorm with people coming and going while we watched TV and talked. That night we realized we both had an interest in getting to know each other as potential spouses. The next day I called her father and asked if I could get to know his daughter as a potential wife out of my respect for her father's headship. We made sure to talk to her father before getting to know each other as potential spouses eventhough we did get to know each other due to being in a group of mutual friends first.
While my daughters are still young I have been trying to come up with how to handle this and this is not a fully formed idea yet but better than current culture. While naturally I would expect any guy interested in getting to know them as potential spouses he would approach me first since I look after her physical and spiritual wellbeing until her husband does. But something better I believe would be if there is a guy I think would make a good husband for my daughter I would talk to him to see if he is interested in getting to know her as a potential wife. Or if one of my daughters are interested in a guy they would come to me and I would decide if it was a good choice and if so I would talk to him. Something more on the side of proactive than reactive.
Some Christian fathers would be offended if you didn't ask their permission first to see their daughter, some would be offended if you did. It's a mess out there and expectations vary widely between and within different denominations.
You want a Biblical reference?
Genesis 24....ask your father to send his servant to purchase with gold one of your cousins for your wife.
Good luck with that.
You want a Biblical reference?
Genesis 24....ask your father to send his servant to purchase with gold one of your cousins for your wife.
Good luck with that.
Uh... well Rainy's father def did not use any biblical principal when giving me his blessing. His reaction was "It's her decision" and he left it at that. He had no further input until the wedding a couple years later. I like to think of myself as a biblical human, but I took the gettin while it was good and absconded with his daughter, twirling my mustache and "nyaaahh ha ha haaa'd" into the night.
I feel no compulsion to be as generous with my own daughter, but I can't force my elders to act according to what I think would be more appropriate. I did what I thought was right and showed up with more formality than was required but in the end her dad was just like "Do whatever, man" so I did. And curiously, I feel no guilt about it because I didn't violate my conscience or anyone else's. (ok nobody else's that matters)
It sounds like you have someone in specific in mind lol. I think you might as well give up on expecting girl's fathers to live up to your expectations of what is reasonable. I understand what you're saying about how they remember what it was like to be single and how they might have more charity. I think that's gonna be part of the problem though. They used to be single, and they remember all the decidedly uncharitable things they did with girls at your age and are going to come down hard on 'protecting their sweet daughter' and light on 'giving the kid a break'. You can call it wrong, but that won't help you in the short run, it will only help you decide how you should behave with your own daughters later on down the road. Also try to remember that "He who does not give her in marriage does even better". There are reasons people do what they do, that can be totally biblical, and still be an impediment to your courting practices.
There isn't a guidebook in the bible on how a father should approach a potential suitor. I believe it's because the father is the father and he makes the rules. (Not to put too fine a point on it, but that's why they are called "patriarchs") He decides what is appropriate for his family. He especially has rights over who (and if) his daughter marries.
Ask her. She knows her father better than you do.
Or, if you know her father well enough yourself, ask him. But I suspect in most cases, "ask her" is the suggestion a young man would be most comfortable with.
And this is excellent:
There is NO biblical guide to how to do this. Everyone who says they have a biblical guide to it, actually is talking about what a particular culture expects and then picks proof-texts from the Bible to back it up. The Bible does not give a step-by-step guide to dating.
I never asked Sarah out. We just realised one day, after we'd managed to find an excuse to see each other every single day for a week for very long conversations, that we were together. I think at some point one of us said something like "I suppose we're dating then" and the other said "yes", but that just confirmed what was already the case. There was no plan of how to get there, we just were there.
My point being, don't worry about "how do I start dating a girl" or "what is dating vs courtship vs engagement". All these are just words. Reality doesn't fit well into words.
Just get to know young women, maintain boundaries consistent with your conscience, be respectful to their fathers in whatever way feels appropriate for them individually, and if you're going to end up marrying her it will work out somehow.
I am a father of eight, one adapted son, one adapted daughter, five biological daughters and one step daughter that gives me 7 daughters to think about. Let’s start with reality, I am a father for their protection, their provider, their friend and to provide an image of what a head of household is to look/be like. For the biblical references you seek, look up guidelines as to what a father is to be like, including our Heavenly Father.
This may blow the mind of @James A, but I want my daughters to find someone who has a strong desire for them. I want them to find a man that looks at them and thinks “she’s hot!!” While at the same time understand if he acts on those desires, prior to a time for it to be appropriate, I have no problem taking him to the woodshed, so to speak.
You’ve mentioned taking a hike with a girl you’ve chosen. That statement leaves out details as to what a hike would be. But, my first reaction, if I barely knew you, would be to tell you to take a hike. Not knowing you, alone time with my daughter ain’t gonna take place. (Keep in mind, she is mine until I give her hand in marriage, and her well being is more important to me than my own life)
God gave us families to raise, love, laugh with and cry with. And if anyone thinks they can come in and usurp my God Given right as father, he will learn quickly, that’s not going to happen.
If you asked 50 men what the role of father should be, you will get 50 opinions. So, as they say in 1st Opinion 3:1 ‘If thou treatest my daughter with love, caring and kindness, thou shalt be treated likewise. If thou treatest my daughter poorly, there shalt be hell to pay!” Married or not. (Keep in mind the scripture that was quoted from.
I suggest on scriptural reference, study what a fathers role is and families. I would also suggest, I say these things from a fathers heart. When you hold your first daughter in your arms, you’re perspective will change, almost a word for word quote from my son in law.
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I've never met you, so I don't know how your actions are. I personally needed to say something. Rainy thought I was angry at her right up to the moment I confessed my undying like for her because my face didn't used to show much emotion back then and I was clinically professional with my sisters in Christ. I take you to be a fellow overthinker of simple things, so I'm guessing you proooobably will have to say something as well.
Are you asking, if she already knows you're interested in her do you need to tell her what she already knows? Technically no because she already knows - but also yes because she might not know for sure and might need it confirmed. So yes and no. I cannot give a straight answer to that. Don't worry about the words, just have casual conversations and these things will come up.
For the ladies:
When it comes to polygamy, what I'd like to see is more young women finding an appropriate man and asking to join his family as a second wife (or getting her father to ask that). There's a very practical reason for this: single people have time to date, but married people don't. Married men don't have the time to date loads of single women, figure out which ones want polygamy and aren't scared off by the prospect, and suggest it to them. Married men who are doing their job are simply too busy with their existing families to take on the enormous additional time burden of dating - or the real risk of approaching the wrong woman, looking like a creep and potentially losing employment as a result.
So ladies, if you want to marry, don't wait around for a man to sweep you off your feet. The good men are too busy already with the first woman they took on, and her children. A married knight doesn't have time to put on his shining armour and gallop around the countryside searching for a damsel to rescue - but if a damsel turns up at their door they'll gladly rescue her there.
Also, although they know you exist, men as a general rule are not attuned to subtle cues so won't notice little hints that you're interested, and might see you no differently to the many other single women they know. You need to state this obviously, not bat your eyelids and then think he mustn't like you because he didn't seem to react to it (that's a silly example, but I hope you get my point).
The better the man is as a husband, the more he'll be focussed on being a husband, so the less likely you'll find him on a dating site or be approached by him elsewhere. If he's taking time off from being a husband to wife 1 to seek you out also, in the long run he might not be the most focussed husband on you either. (Obviously this isn't a hard and fast rule either, just a small observation to ponder.)
Right off the top of my head I would say that Numbers 30:3-5 would be a pretty clear scripture to indicate that ultimately the father, or head (whoever that may be), has the last say in anything that has to do with his daughter.
A "no" also may have nothing to do with being Godly at all, it might have more to do with lifestyle differences.
I would hope that I would be able to rule out major lifestyle differences in a potential for myself, but being a young guy, I think it would be wise to take advice, not only from my own father, but also from a potential spouse's father. Reason number one being, he will know her best, and may very well see reds flag in the potential relationship.
If I ask a man for permission to get to know his daughter, and he says no, I will respect that decision as her head, even if I don't agree with it.
Ultimately if it is the will of God, it will happen.
I think it doesn't matter if he wants you to approach him, until he says something to indicate he doesn't want you around, you have just as much right to talk to him as you have to talk a random man on the street.
You may think you are a Godly man, just as I may think the same of myself, but that (in my opinion) is up to the father to decide if you are asking for permission to get to know his little girl.
A "no" also may have nothing to do with being Godly at all, it might have more to do with lifestyle differences.
I would hope that I would be able to rule out major lifestyle differences in a potential for myself, but being a young guy, I think it would be wise to take advice, not only from my own father, but also from a potential spouse's father. Reason number one being, he will know her best, and may very well see reds flag in the potential relationship.
If I ask a man for permission to get to know his daughter, and he says no, I will respect that decision as her head, even if I don't agree with it.
Ultimately if it is the will of God, it will happen.
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Actually, the deal with Boaz had to do with Leverite marriage. That is a Torah commandment that when a man dies and leaves no heir, his next of kin is supposed to marry her and produce a child for the deceased relative. That is why Boaz sought out the man at the gate because he knew that he was more closely related to Ruth's deceased husband, and had "first dibs". He declined, so that left the door open for Boaz. But you're right, Ruth going to Boaz privately seems a little scandalous.
I don't even fit into the armor anymore. Too much good home cooking....
I second this. Kinda like street evangelism. Most people are not looking to make eye contact with strangers, you gotta jump in and start talking and let God take it from there.
ah yes makes more sense.. and yes quite scandalous also at night while he was sleeping..
However, Ruth was a foreigner in their land, that's why her mother in law gave her the option to go back to her family. Ugh.. hazy on it now.. lol now I need to go back and read it to remember some details.
I do know that this wasn't really courtship...
Ya. Going through in my head the closest things to hook ups for marriage in the Bible weren't very amazing.. except for Jacob with the whole 14 years thing... I'd have to say that Issac and Rebekah where the closest description to what @James A is looking at. But she didn't even meet Issac, she just knew he was a relative and filthy rich lol So good catch for her. The servant DID still talk to her father and brother before taking her though.
On the other hand, there is quite a lot about marriage and headship even the marriage bed