Did....did you just bring The Revolting Man's favourite thing in the world into the equation?
I think this will be the answer lol.
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Roots?
- Thread starter steve
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Exactly the reason I desire to live in a Torah observant nation under the headship of my King! All that will be taken care of as the whole nation rests!
The most amazing thing about Israel is that around 3pm on Friday almost everything closes and the streets are empty! Literally, Hwy 6 is empty by 6 pm. Amazing... They aren't perfect and have some real sin to deal with, but as a whole, as a nation, they understand Shabbat.
Now, @The Revolting Man , I do not necessarily disagree with you on the milk cow issue, but a few thoughts...
- did Abraham and Israel have cows? Goats? How did they handle it?
- Yeshua said water donkey on the Sabbath, how us giving the donkey what it needs (water) different than milking a lactating cow?
- do you use city water on Shabbat? How about electricity?
Easy to see how the Pharisees came up with 1600+ laws just for Shabbat... the key is to cease all unnecessary or avoidable work and all commerce... each man must decide what that looks like for himself and his house...
I agree with you here and this is supported by the Bible. But we should really explain the "no commerce" part because that's not specified in the Torah...
Hmmmm.........
A few rabbinical style law....er...instructions to fill in the gap?
Commerce causes others to work and encourages focusing on things of the world v resting and focusing on Yah and His Kingdom.
The clearest place that I can recall that we see ths in Scripture is in Nehemiah 10 where he admonishes those who conduct commerce on Shabbat. Amos 8:5 also has a strong word against those who even think about commerce on Shabbat as evidence of a larger obsession withunjust gain...
Donkeys aren’t cows and watering them doesn’t bring immediate increase.
Chickens and cows doing what they do is actually in keeping with the rest of creation which does not cease to exist or produce on any day.
Work for hire, making your ox work (like pull a plow or cart) was prohibited, making your servants work was prohibited. Women still lactate, so do sheep, dogs, cats etc. Female creatures still go into labor on every day of the week which means SOME of them are laboring on the sabath.
When one starts going to that extreme in trying to define how the law should be kept, they are heading in the same direction as the authors of the talmud. 40,000 pages later they are no closer to the real way to keep it.... resting in the finished work of Yeshua.
If one cannot break from their own labor and efforts for ONE day, turn to the source of life and trust His provision for ONE day, they will likely not figure out how to trust Him the other six either.
No, but not watering can have similar effect as not milking...
You've never run cows and cattle. They are a massive amount of work and it has to be done seven days a week. That was the #1 reason why we started running bison was because most of the time they can take care of themselves.
For that matter, do we have to abstain from providing due benevolence on the Sabbath? Given the effort involved, are we prohibited from being sexual with our wives for 24 hours?
Not at all true.
My point was that milking a couple of cows on a Sabbath does not compare to the labor involved in milking 40, 400, or 1000. A couple is in no way a full time job.
I loved milking cows as a boy, but, yes, the evening milking was much more convenient. On my grandparents' farm, it was often a safe bet that the cows would wake up the rooster.
Yeah, you girls always do seem to think that everything we do just happens automatically . . .You guys put effort into that?
That’s fine, but not all farmsteads can accommodate 180 bison.
We have a tenth of an acre; does anyone have any bison to spare? We could probably squeeze in 4 or 5. I'll checked with the HOA to see if there's any restrictions in place . . .
And then I'll do what Target did back around 1970 in reaction to the Texas Blue Laws that prohibited Sabbath sales of anything but necessities (which, of all things, included pantyhose, because one knows a woman couldn't show up on church Sunday morning with a run in her hose [oh, no, there's that word again; inside joke for about a dozen of us]): every Friday afternoon, the Jewish owners sold the entire corporation to their Christian co-owners, who sold the entire corporation back each weekend on Monday morning to the Jewish owners. Texas had granted an exemption to Jewish businesses who wanted to be open on Sunday in exchange for not selling Blue items on Saturdays, so this effectively allowed both Jews and Christians to honor their respective Sabbaths but keep the cash flow going 7 days a week. I guess I wasn't a Torah Keeper even way back then, because after church each Sunday, I rode my bike (work) to Safeway to work 8 hours; no way was I going to pass up time and a half that I got paid per union rules and the Fair Labor and Standards Act -- especially on Sunday holidays like Easter, when we got paid double. But, hey, I did do my duty by going to church first, and I was even sucked into the 'New Testament' (read: corrupted) tithing regimen when I was a teenager.
No we are not.
Which is a rational and workable position on the issue. @The Revolting Man sounds like he'd then tip the excess milk down the drain rather than keeping it to make cheese the next day, and it's that level of arbitrary and wasteful legalism that I am objecting to.