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Titus 1:15 and polygamy
- Thread starter Bartato
- Start date
Since you haven’t brought any of his arguments to the table, all we have is your opinions.
You haven’t even come close to supporting the idea that it was only the poor who weren’t to be charged interest.
Interest-Free Loans in Judaism | My Jewish Learning
Jewish Interest Free Loans. Interest, Usury, and Moneylending in Jewish Law. Jewish Price Regulation. Jewish Business Ethics in Practice. Jewish Work and Commerce.
www.myjewishlearning.com
Such is the case with all sins. That's no justification to engage in them.
You like your appeals to authority. Economists. Gary North. I've lived and observed long enough to realize modern economics isn't all it's cracked up to be. My beliefs discussed here came from personal search of the scriptures on the question of debt, not from economics beliefs. Only later did I increasingly realize the folly and fraud in modern economics and it's purposes for our banker overlords.
As a servant of Christ I take my opinion from the scriptures, not what economic theorists, who are often wrong, believe. History and present events are bearing out the profitability of that approach. I give you a verse prohibiting debt and your retort is the economists say that can't work? They are your authority.
I didn't appeal to any economists or Gary North. I know enough of economics to derive conclusions myself.
If two possible logical explanations exists, you can't know which one is right. Therefore, in order to disprove one explanation you have to defeat both my and Gary's arguments.
We both agree that modern economics is crap. That's thanks to using epistemiology of natural science in social science. I won't explain this idiocy. What you are missing is that Gary and I both belong to Austrian School of economics which uses epistemilogy similar to math. Neverending chains of pure logic.
I have asked you 5 Biblical question and I have received only one answer. I haven't received explanation why in Parable of Talent Jesus in OK with money lending? You claim this is sin.
Also, why here exist limiter to only poor people:
Thou shalt not give him money upon usury, nor lend him victuals [food -- "vittles"] for increase (Leviticus 25:37).
Thou shalt not lend upon usury to thy brother: usury of money, usury of victuals, usury of any thing that is lent upon usury (Deuteronomy 23:19).
Again verses directly against your claim.
And all my economics arguments are still valid and testify against your claim. Why? Because all laws of nature describe reality. Since Bible also describes reality there can't contradiction. Otherwise, Lord has made a error.
Your thinking is good example of Bible qouter. You take/find out Bible inteprentation and forget to check implications which break reality. Even when somebody finds your reasoning wanting, your still believe you have found out truth. Why? Here is my magical Bible verse.
Above means that arguments from nature are valid theological arguments. We are slighty polygamous specie because in polygamous species males are larger than females, while in monogamous species males and female are same size. If Lord wanted us monogamy-only, males and females would be same size. Since there is difference in size, we can use this fact against monogamy-only club. See, elegant proof from nature.
Do you even understand what is actually interest rate? In another universe with being capable of reasoning and time, interest rate will exist. It is part of our world as time is. Forbidding usage of interest rate is same as forbidding usage of time. Lunacy.
This is main reason why usury definiton was changed after medieval time. People have finally figured out nature of interest rate. And medieval merchants did use interest rate, only indirectly.
Why all this effort from me? Because 80% of human suffering comes from accepted falsehoods in economics and political science. All Satan can do is support us in our delusions. Without delusions, he would be powerless. Amd because good human life requires acceptance of all truth.
There is zero proof that they were lending to fellow Jews.
They were occupied by Roman forces and we have evidence that they gambled. It’s not much of a stretch to believe that they borrowed against their coming pay.
There were also other peoples about.
Adultery would never be used as example what to do because it sin.
Lending is used as example what to do, so it can't be sin.
@rockfox claims is that rule of 0% interest rate is universal, not specific for some group. Therefore Parable of Talents applies to him claim.
These contradict me how? As I said, there are limits upon lending in the Bible which basically make it uneconomic as a commercial enterprise. It was meant for helping your neighbor. No commercial lending in the US meets the restrictions in either the OT or NT.
No lending (or 'commerce,' period) of fake, fiat 'dollars' -- since they are a dishonest weight -- possibly COULD.
26 But his master answered him, ‘You wicked and slothful servant! You knew that I reap where I have not sown and gather where I scattered no seed? 27 Then you ought to have invested my money with the bankers, and at my coming I should have received what was my own with interest. 28 So take the talent from him and give it to him who has the ten talents.
Verse 27 is key. Jesus expects collecting interest. So commercial lending, whose purpose is to earn money is OK.
Topic isn't sound money, but usury. Not connected.
Sorry, but are you KIDDING? 'Unsound' NOT-money is the very basis of the entire, fetid, stinking, unconstitutional, and abomination-based system (His Word) that is CREATED from usury.
Issue is interest rate greater than 0% sin or not. My position it is not. There is also 0% charity loan for poor people.
Question isn't what is legal money according to Bible, what is good money, is Bitcoin OK, what Constution says or any else topic.
They could hardly be less connected. Usury is the entire basis of our monetary system and the creation of our money.
Spoken like a banker. Do you work in the finance industry?
You do abuse to the parable, taking literally the example of a master who was "a hard man, reaping where you did not sow, and gathering from where you did not scatter." as justification. This is a parable, and not about money. And to the extent it is about money, those details aren't how God asks us to use money.
How is commercial lending for profit, with interest, liens, mortgages, repossessions and the like "hoping for nothing in return"? You can't get there from here.
Just because current monetary system is debt based, doesn't mean they are all. Ancient and medieval monetary system were metal based and question of usury has existed. Not the same topic.
No.
I don't get how you in verse 27 don't see interest. It is even mention as word.
So what if it parable?
By the way, if something still doesn't get it. I don't claim interest is point in parable, but is mentioned in positive light. Why? Because it is instruction from master which isn't explicitly overriden later as something bad/evil.
Would Jesus use adultery is any parable as example we should do? No sin would in any way be in any parable be mentioned as something positive. Why would Lord speak positive about something he hates?
I don't see a problem here. There are commercial loans for money and charity loans for good acts. Charity is mandatory only for poor.
I have read also whole Luke 6 chapter. Good works is theme which doesn't imply that all commercial loans are forbidden. It can only mean that charity loans are good and not a step more. Same as marriage. Good in itself, unmmaried state isn't forbidden.
Anyway, I'm out of this conversation. I don't see how anybody could be persuaded, so it is unprofitable to continue.
Marketingmom
Member
I believe as long as you honor GOD’s calling in your life and follow his will. When we go out searching for things of our own. “More than one wife.” that is when we disobey. The wives will come to the honest and pure man.
You don't know how much murderes are popular with ladies?
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So....what kind of marketing do you do? Any useful products or services we should know about?
Marketingmom
Member
Product and business marketing.
How about just the honest?