Titus 1:15 and polygamy

[Mark C]

What is exactly dishonest weight?

I consider this to be more like merchant setting his scale to 10 kg when correct value is 9 kg.

How about when it's NOT a weight at ALL?!

Congress has the constitutional power (and NO OTHER entity does!) to "coin money and regulate the value thereof." In other words, to specify how many "grains of fine silver" constitute "one dollar".

For much of this country's history, when we had honest money (until 1965) a "dollar" contained 371.25 grains of silver. Now it's "zero". Zip, nada. Total fake. How much more dishonest can it get? (Answer: we're about to find out.)

The 'dollar' is literally a weight without real weight, or a measure of...nothing.

PS> For those that aren't familiar with the history, this is a good introduction:

A Constitutional Dollar | Michael Rozeff

Are you aware that a Federal Reserve dollar bill is not a constitutional dollar? Perhaps you are, but if so, do you know what a constitutional dollar literally is?

mises.org

 

[rockfox]

Using the dollar allows those who unlawfully sized the power to print money to steal money from the economy. Every dollar they create via the press or sinful debt devalues all the other dollars; stealing people's savings.

 

[Edward the Elder]

The original post covers a lot of ground. The dialog appears to have shifted to focus on money and currency. I'm not suggesting that the thread has gone entirely off topic considering that commerce plays a huge role in families and marriage. A few years back I came to a conclusion about that funny stuff we call money today. It occurred to me that none of it is my property. When our Lord asked who's image and superscription was on that coin I believe he wanted people to acknowledge precisely who owned the money. I think, as Bible believers we all know Who owns it all, every single thing, including the cattle on a thousand hills; but the image and the superscription is the property of whoever made it. For this reason I concluded that none of the money I come into possession of is mine. My image and superscription are on none of it.

It's not my money.

Realizing this has resulted in a tremendous burden lifted from me. I can call it my earnings, I can refer to it as credits granted, but the physical stuff isn't my property. I'm not obligating myself to the shady words of legalese and dark sentences drawn out of contracts because none of this was my property in the first place. A man's true wealth is his family and his loved ones. All the rest of it perishes with the using. So we would all do well to use it well, bearing in mind that none of it belongs to us anyway. This view can diffuse all temptation to covetousness and greed or want of filthy lucre. Indeed, my perceived poverty has become my protection.

 

[rockfox]

When our Lord asked who's image and superscription was on that coin I believe he wanted people to acknowledge precisely who owned the money. I think, as Bible believers we all know Who owns it all, every single thing, including the cattle on a thousand hills; but the image and the superscription is the property of whoever made it. For this reason I concluded that none of the money I come into possession of is mine. My image and superscription are on none of it.

Now that's a powerful insight but not the way you take it. I would posit that money belongs to, i.e. serves the interests of, those who coin/print it.

As our Lord says, the love of money is the root of all evil. One of those parties called out as evil in Revelations is the merchants of the world.

It would do us good to decouple ourselves from the commercial economy so that we can serve each other instead of mammon. The Mark of the Best makes this an imperative. I don't know if there has ever been a people in history who is as dependent on money as we are. We produce nothing for ourselves, everything is purchased. Just a few generations ago it was almost the opposite. And not just the necessities of life. Public social interactions, recreation, even our identity; everything is mediated via commerce these days.

 

[MemeFan]

Using the dollar allows those who unlawfully sized the power to print money to steal money from the economy. Every dollar they create via the press or sinful debt devalues all the other dollars; stealing people's savings.

Actually, not correct argument.

Reason is because any increase of labor, any service and capital devaules existing supply. So by itself this cannot be bad.

Real problem are legal tender laws which force you to accept state issuing currency. Think a little. If more people come into your town with same skills are you, what you happen with you salary? Since you now more replacable it will go down. But you can do something about this like adding new skills or speacializing in industry.

Can you change currency to protect yourself? No. Why? Legal tender law.

 

[rockfox]

Reason is because any increase of labor, any service and capital devaules existing supply. So by itself this cannot be bad.

By the fruit of their own labor, limited by what one mans time can do.

This is nothing like the banker monopoly which manufactures billions and trillions out of thin air.

Wait, it get's worse.

This sinful debt they've saddled us with is a self fulfilling prophecy. Supply and demand dictates the presence of debt in the market drives up prices, pricing cash buyers out of the market unless they too enslave themselves to the bankers.

Yes enslave. "Proverbs 22:7 The rich rule over the poor, and the borrower is slave to the lender."

 

[Mark C]

Real problem are legal tender laws which force you to accept state issuing currency.

Not true, but a point worth correcting. (And, in SPITE of what was once called 'law' - more businesses are REFUSING 'cash' now anyway. Where there's an agenda, there's a way...)

The key words are "all debts public and private." You cannot (yet, anyway) be coerced into contract. If there's no 'debt', there's no foisting of 'legal tender.' Ask first, don't make a 'deal.'

You can 'trade' for silver.

 

[MemeFan]

Not true, but a point worth correcting. (And, in SPITE of what was once called 'law' - more businesses are REFUSING 'cash' now anyway. Where there's an agenda, there's a way...)

The key words are "all debts public and private." You cannot (yet, anyway) be coerced into contract. If there's no 'debt', there's no foisting of 'legal tender.' Ask first, don't make a 'deal.'

You can 'trade' for silver.

Legal tender law means you have to accept state sponsored money instead of money of your own choosing.

And state enforced this in their own courts.

 

[Mark C]

Legal tender law means you have to accept state sponsored money instead of money of your own choosing.

And state enforced this in their own courts.

I know what it MEANS. You didn't understand the point.

 

[MemeFan]

I know what it MEANS. You didn't understand the point.

Well, can you explain? Please, I hope it is not how world is supposed to run without state. I'm familiar with libertarian political and legal theory. Our differences are often me claiming "well, state exist" and you "well state doesn't matter due to..."

I did some thinking @rockfox @Mark C

Increase of monetary supply by itself can't be evil. If silver is money what does silver mine do? Increase monetary supply. Same think as central bank. So what is difference?

Because silver mine owner must risk capital, minig itself is work. Same as every other enterpreneur. Central bank money printing is opposite. Creating purchasing power without effort, without risk, without creating something new. Same as theft.

 

[Mark C]

Increase of monetary supply by itself can't be evil. If silver is money what does silver mine do? Increase monetary supply. Same think as central bank. So what is difference?

Yahuah has controlled the increase in world gold and silver supply for 6000 years. Interestingly, it tracks world economic growth reasonably well, over a long time period.

Central banks can make 100x the amount of currency in 1 year that has existed in all history*. Without limit. See any problem?


PS> Why don't they? We've seen it in Weimar Germany, Argentina, Zimbabwe...and we're likely to see it "up close and personal," too.

 

[Mark C]

But you missed the point of the 'legal tender' for DEBT issue.

If you don't have a debt nexus, you can't be forced to take something you don't want.
(Yeah, in a totalitarian Dictator State - all bets are off. From the poison poke to the Mark...)

 

[Mark C]

BTW, I realized this stuck with me:

I'm familiar with libertarian political and legal theory. Our differences are often me claiming "well, state exist" and you "well state doesn't matter due to..."

Both the State and the Adversary (but maybe I repeat myself... ) certainly exist, and I never try to argue the Almighty State (or its boss) don't MATTER. Evil MATTERS, but isn't our master.

I argue we have a choice, and that we don't have to SERVE them. (and, shouldn't.) Which is the "come out of her," solution.

 

[Robeld]

PS>

Not at all true. But not at a rigged, suppressed price. And not in a climate of general ignorance of what is Real, and what is not.

The problem is what is called "Gresham's Law" ('Bad money drives out good.')

Anyone who knows will ALWAYS prefer to trade paper as long as some Greater Fool is willing to take it, and keep the silver for savings. (Think the card game of Old Maid.)

I have wrestled for a long time with how to keep silver circulating in a small, Torah-obedient community. The problem is, people who know, will hang onto it.


For now.

I don't have much to invest, but I'm buying some constitutional (some call it junk) silver each month in various denominations. Easier to trade/barter/buy with IMO.

 

[The Revolting Man]

I don't have much to invest, but I'm buying some constitutional (some call it junk) silver each month in various denominations. Easier to trade/barter/buy with IMO.

I’ve been buying war nickels lately. It’s the cheapest silver I can get right now. Other than the scrap I obsessively hoard.

 

[Bartato]

I don't have much to invest, but I'm buying some constitutional (some call it junk) silver each month in various denominations. Easier to trade/barter/buy with IMO.

Like you said, I think the 90% silver will be easier to trade with. I have some, and would like to get more. Washington quarters are often the least expensive to buy.

I should also get some of the nickels @The Revolting Man mentioned, though they have a lower percentage silver.

I also like the private mint rounds (such as Sunshine) and foreign coins (like Canadian maple leaf and British Britannias) if I can find them on sale.

American Eagles are always way more expensive so I don't buy them.

 

[Mark C]

I'm a big fan of junk silver because it's usually the lowest-premium, and certainly among the more recognizable (anyone will QUICKLY learn to tell a real silver dime from post-64 pot metal just by dropping it on a table and listening...)
and it's also STILL "lawful US coin."

It's also low enough denomination that it'll be the last thing to be counterfeited.

 

[The Revolting Man]

Like you said, I think the 90% silver will be easier to trade with. I have some, and would like to get more. Washington quarters are often the least expensive to buy.

I should also get some of the nickels @The Revolting Man mentioned, though they have a lower percentage silver.

I also like the private mint rounds (such as Sunshine) and foreign coins (like Canadian maple leaf and British Britannias) if I can find them on sale.

American Eagles are always way more expensive so I don't buy them.

You’re paying for the silver weight in the nickels. You need to be able to look up the melt value if you’re going to buy them.

They’re an extremely low premium silver BUT you might not get the spot price if you sell them back to a dealer. Because they’re only 35% silver it costs more to refine them. Excellent for barter though and increasing your stack.

 

[Robeld]

You’re paying for the silver weight in the nickels. You need to be able to look up the melt value if you’re going to buy them.

They’re an extremely low premium silver BUT you might not get the spot price if you sell them back to a dealer. Because they’re only 35% silver it costs more to refine them. Excellent for barter though and increasing your stack.

Only 35%? I'm not familiar with them and haven't bought any. I'll stick with the 90%.

 

[Bartato]

Only 35%? I'm not familiar with them and haven't bought any. I'll stick with the 90%.

Right now, one can buy stuff like Britannias for way less over spot than even 90%. I like the 90% for it's fractionality (and perhaps war nickels for similar reasons). Silver quarters, dimes, and half dollars would theoretically be good for barter (and the nickels too).