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Support 2nd is a trainwreck…venting and advice

M

Mt22Oh

New Member
FW says- Yesterday was my first time meeting her and the 3 of us spending time together and her character is a huge problem. She is unable to manage her emotions, extremely disrespectful, doesn’t seem to understand how to communicate or behave like an adult woman and it’s causing extreme stress and problems for all of us. As the FW, I’m having a hard time because this woman’s character is absolutely atrocious. I have been the kindest, very best loving example of Christ to her and accepting her and not sharing any of my challenging emotions with her…but our Master did let her know that I do have position over her in our family and that she needs to learn from me. (In his own words, I am paraphrasing)… but she is making the environment so hostile and uncomfortable that I just don’t know emotionally what to do with myself. My Master and I are fine, we communicate well and he is pleased with my submission and my treatment towards her and acknowledges that she is acting childish and inappropriate…I live in another state and only get to see him every so often and I absolutely do not look forward to having to deal with and tiptoe around her and her emotions when I do get to come home. I don’t feel comfortable at home anymore because of the eggshells and having to pretend. I can’t actually teach her because she isn’t receptive to being taught.

Master says-
The reason why she is acting the way she is, she is young, she is sensitive and emotional, she has been in abusive relationships. She wants what we have and wants to be a part of this family but she is scared and when she gets scared she often puts up her walls and runs and when her emotions get so high that she can’t handle them anymore and you can see her heart but when her emotions are high she lashes out much like she has learned from being abused and such. I am trying the best I can to learn and figure out how to lovingly teach her how to take control of her emotions, how to lovingly teach her how Christ tells us we are to behave and she is receptive to being a part of Bible readings and prayer time and such. But she has a LOT of fucking learning to do and it’s overwhelming to all of us right now. I have seen her heart and know she wants more and wants what we have she just doesn’t know how to. She doesn’t know how to control her feelings. She was terrified to meet my wife and she ran, my wife reached out to her and she finally did come to meet her. My wife gave her a big hug and she told my wife that she didn’t know how much that hug meant to her.
 
To be completely blunt - have you had sex with her?

This is important context, as we need to understand whether we're talking to a family in the courtship phase, deciding whether to marry, or a family where there are already obligations that require marriage and we're helping you make it work. I think your last post answers the question, but does so somewhat vaguely, so I'm asking the question bluntly and I'm hoping you can answer either yes or no.

In terms of actual thoughts on the actual situation:
Mt22Oh said:
But she has a LOT of fucking learning to do and it’s overwhelming to all of us right now.
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She sounds like a hurt child. That is fine, it is who she is, and she needs loving support in many ways. The question of course is whether she needs a husband or a father. Of course, she can have both in one man (a husband whom she looks up to like a father). But what matters most is what she needs, not what you want. You don't need a wife - you've got one - but she needs a man. So this is about her needs, and the important thing to work out is if it is truly you that she needs, in order to take the next step in the life that God has for her. That question needs to be considered calmly and rationally, and is entirely separate to the question of whether you are sexually or otherwise attracted to her. Once you have the answer to that question, you can work out how to move forwards.

Tagging @MeganC as she may have some valuable thoughts on this.
 
This sound strange.

There are 2 possibilities.

Somebody hasn't grown up. Hard situation, but fixable by most men with little training. Only hard thing would be consistency in treating her as child.

Harder and way more dangerous situation is cluster b women. Don't know what to say. Here are you facing good manipulator able to hide her manipulation. Or she is literally crazy causing total chaos. Bipolar are special girls. Sometimes cuddly and othertimes out of mind. And addiction creating.
 
Read Numbers 30. (There are several threads up here on it, and I've done teachings on what I call the 'most important understanding for new marriages' that they probably haven't been taught.)

Edit: Here is one of the more recent threads:

Meat - Scriptural Advice for the wedding night

No, this isn't about sex per se. Nor is about what constitutes "divorce," (as opposed to mere "putting away") nor about what the Almighty State ordains as "marriage licenses." It is about Authority, and "past sins," and vows. And, yes, it's been done before. But I see current evidence that...
biblicalfamilies.org biblicalfamilies.org
 
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I can understand the desire to help her overcome her past and become the person that she could be, but the first wife living in another state makes this a whole lot harder. As was said already, take your time in building this relationship. Many want to live the lifestyle in the worst way, and sometimes do.
My prayers go out for the family.
 
As the others have said, slow right down.

But reading between the lines of this rather peculiarly worded statement:
Mt22Oh said:
No our relationship is not sexual at this point in the aspect of having sex.
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It sounds like you're saying you're already doing everything you could possibly be doing that wouldn't technically be called "sex" because you're not technically putting your penis in her vagina. If I'm right - if whatever you're doing requires you to take off your pants - either YOU'RE MARRIED already or you already have an obligation to marry her (different people have different views on the detail but the result is the same). Remember the scriptural statement for this sort of thing is "uncover the nakedness of". If that's what you're doing, you're stuck with her. Let's not split hairs over precisely what is "sex".

If I'm wrong, and you're still just courting, then you're going to have to work carefully on managing temptation.

Is he living closer to the prospect than to the first wife? Does he spend more time with the prospect than the first wife? If so, that will make the whole thing much more difficult. It is crucial to be spending more time with the existing wife, or at least the same amount of time, to ensure that relationship is maintained as the solid bedrock of the family, and the potential second wife is an added extra which may or may not occur.

If you spend enough time with her, and are sexually starved from living away from your wife so particularly susceptible to temptation, let's be honest - you're probably going to end up sleeping together in an emotional state one evening, regardless of whether this is what you rationally believe is the right thing to do. Unless you are far stronger than the average man, which I am not assuming is the case, most of us are normal.

So you are going to have to put effort into managing the actual amount of physical contact time you have with both women to ensure you have sufficient balance to actually be able to slow this down in the way that you need to. You need to manage the amount of temptation you are exposed to, because there is only so much temptation that a man can resist.

Why do you live in different states anyway? Can you fix that?
 
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Don't really have evidence to back this up, but my experience is as follows. It takes roughly the same amount of time to overcome years of abuse.

This being because her body was not able to mature correctly, so yes, some part of her is still in child form. It takes years of consistent experience for her to learn how to cope with her triggers and eventually overcome them. If it's real trauma, then it's a bodily reaction (not mental) that happens, like bristles that just come out without any conscious thought. It takes a lot of patience and care to help her understand that she doesn't have to bristle to protect herself, as well as recognizing things that happen which make her body want to bristle.

Be the perfect image of a loving messiah to her, and you will eventually succeed in putting her broken pieces back together. My prayers are with you!
 
FollowingHim said:
As the others have said, slow right down.

But reading between the lines of this rather peculiarly worded statement:

It sounds like you're saying you're already doing everything you could possibly be doing that wouldn't technically be called "sex" because you're not technically putting your penis in her vagina. If I'm right - if whatever you're doing requires you to take off your pants - either YOU'RE MARRIED already or you already have an obligation to marry her (different people have different views on the detail but the result is the same). Remember the scriptural statement for this sort of thing is "uncover the nakedness of". If that's what you're doing, you're stuck with her. Let's not split hairs over precisely what is "sex".

If I'm wrong, and you're still just courting, then you're going to have to work carefully on managing temptation.

Is he living closer to the prospect than to the first wife? Does he spend more time with the prospect than the first wife? If so, that will make the whole thing much more difficult. It is crucial to be spending more time with the existing wife, or at least the same amount of time, to ensure that relationship is maintained as the solid bedrock of the family, and the potential second wife is an added extra which may or may not occur.

If you spend enough time with her, and are sexually starved from living away from your wife so particularly susceptible to temptation, let's be honest - you're probably going to end up sleeping together in an emotional state one evening, regardless of whether this is what you rationally believe is the right thing to do. Unless you are far stronger than the average man, which I am not assuming is the case, most of us are normal.

So you are going to have to put effort into managing the actual amount of physical contact time you have with both women to ensure you have sufficient balance to actually be able to slow this down in the way that you need to. You need to manage the amount of temptation you are exposed to, because there is only so much temptation that a man can resist.

Why do you live in different states anyway? Can you fix that?
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I seem to remember an infamous dude that said, "I did not have sex with that woman". And everybody was subjected to the topic on nightly news of what was sex anyway. The euphemism "uncover his skirt" usually meant more than getting naked, but did not mean having sex everytime. Think about Ruth who crawled under Boaz' skirt but of course did not initially comply with her totally legal right of demanding what he could give her. Sex in the ancient days was not the faux modesty of today. I think most of us would recoil at the rather openness regarding procreation from way back when. Let's face it- none of us got here because mom and dad just held hands and kissed on the cheek.
 
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crsivils said:
Don't really have evidence to back this up, but my experience is as follows. It takes roughly the same amount of time to overcome years of abuse.

This being because her body was not able to mature correctly, so yes, some part of her is still in child form. It takes years of consistent experience for her to learn how to cope with her triggers and eventually overcome them. If it's real trauma, then it's a bodily reaction (not mental) that happens, like bristles that just come out without any conscious thought. It takes a lot of patience and care to help her understand that she doesn't have to bristle to protect herself, as well as recognizing things that happen which make her body want to bristle.

Be the perfect image of a loving messiah to her, and you will eventually succeed in putting her broken pieces back together. My prayers are with you!
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If it is truly a cluster B, BPD issue she could destroy everything. Flighty, controling, manipulative. My ex had parents who had extreme traumas in their life and she was molested as a little girl. The man who did it went to prison for it. She got into an abusive relationship or so she says. She told the court that I abused her and I never touched her. It is not easy for them to change. I pray that she does because she is in bondage to that pain. She will spread trauma untill hers is healed.
 
Mt22Oh said:
The reason why she is acting the way she is, she is young, she is sensitive and emotional, she has been in abusive relationships. She wants what we have and wants to be a part of this family but she is scared and when she gets scared she often puts up her walls and runs and when her emotions get so high that she can’t handle them anymore and you can see her heart but when her emotions are high she lashes out much like she has learned from being abused and such.
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In my experience you are describing a subset of the messed-up trainwreck women who seek out poly as a lifestyle.

Why? Because sometimes we are just not going to fit into the mono-marriage ideal. A lot of women like this end up as lesbians or worse, trans. They've been molested and/or sexually abused and the result is they have a very unhealthy or maladapted view of heterosexual sex and marital relations.

Pardon my frank language here, but when a penis has been used as a weapon against you it takes a lot of patience and love to work with someone to get them to a place where they can enjoy normal sex not to mention just accepting more or less normal families.

When I met my family I was used to both of my parents stealing from me. I expected my new family to steal from me and it was honestly somewhat uncomfortable for me when they didn't steal from me. I had to adjust my worldview. I had to learn that there were decent and honorable people in the world.

Your potential second sounds like this to me because a lot of the things you describe still describe me sometimes.

This might be hard for you but the question here is not about this woman. She is who she is.

The question is about you and your family.

Are you folks spiritually, emotionally, financially, and physically able to provide a home to this obviously damaged woman and to help her not just to heal but to grow as a person and become an important and positive part of your family?

If the answer is no then end it right away. This is best for you and for her.

If the answer is yes then I'd encourage you to sit down with her and let her talk to you. Ask a lot of questions and then SHUT UP and let her answer you. Get her to let it out. Just doing this much will help her heal.

If you need help or advice there are some amazing people on this site with amazing wisdom and I'd encourage you to seek them out.

@FollowingHim tagging you on my reply. ;)
 
I would start with Salvation if she is not a believer in Christ Jesus. This belief gives her the ability to let the Holy Spirit heal her emotionally and spiritually with the help of your family. Praying for you all.
 
@Mt22Oh, I may be jumping to conclusions, but I get the feeling from your lack of responses in the past couple of days that you may be currently having some interesting conversations with your husband and finding that things have moved further than you had realised, and dealing with the emotional difficulty of this.

In the event that my assumption is correct, please be aware that we have not said the above to criticise, but rather to establish the present reality to ensure that we can advise you correctly. If he's already gone further than he should have, he would certainly not be the first man to do so, and there are other men here who have made mistakes also. Even if the situation is a mess today, it is healable and we would love to help you do that. We have compassion for all three of you.

You just can't plan how to walk forwards without first fully understanding where you are starting from. So that is where we have begun.

We are however far more interested in walking forwards with you than just analysing where you are today.
 
I
FollowingHim said:
@Mt22Oh, I may be jumping to conclusions, but I get the feeling from your lack of responses in the past couple of days that you may be currently having some interesting conversations with your husband and finding that things have moved further than you had realised, and dealing with the emotional difficulty of this.

In the event that my assumption is correct, please be aware that we have not said the above to criticise, but rather to establish the present reality to ensure that we can advise you correctly. If he's already gone further than he should have, he would certainly not be the first man to do so, and there are other men here who have made mistakes also. Even if the situation is a mess today, it is healable and we would love to help you do that. We have compassion for all three of you.

You just can't plan how to walk forwards without first fully understanding where you are starting from. So that is where we have begun.

We are however far more interested in walking forwards with you than just analysing where you are today.
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am shaking responding this…Master left the house for work and it accidentally slipped that he had been hiding that they had been physical. He had been lying to me about it but I decided to stand with him in submission and let him deal with consequences and forward things. Moving on it makes trusting him to lead difficult. Advice welcome.
 
Forgiveness needs to become your new best friend. You will need to live a lifestyle of forgiveness.
It doesn’t make life any easier, but it makes it livable. It is your strongest tool against the enemy.
Forgive until you are empty, then keep on forgiving more.
 
Mt22Oh said:
Master left the house for work and it accidentally slipped that he had been hiding that they had been physical.
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That does not surprise me, reading between the lines it was fairly clear that was probably the situation. I am very sorry to hear this but this is not the end of the world. There are women here who have been through this before - as you talk to the ladies you will find at least one of the key women here has been through their husband having a secret affair, having to work through exactly what you are going through, with ultimate long-term success. I will leave the women to tell their stories themselves, I just want to assure you that there are people here who know what you are going through and can sympathise, and advise you from their own experience.

While the men can also sympathise with your husband. A problem we have is that monogamy is a strong psychological defence against sleeping with a woman other than your wife - you see other women as always and forever off limits. Recognising the righteousness of polygamy, although completely correct, has the side-effect of weakening this "protection" - other women are now potential wives, and can be considered. The man who is particularly susceptible to such temptations benefits a lot from having as many walls as possible between him and other women, and when this first wall in the mind is broken down the others which should still exist can fall like dominoes when temptation comes. Obviously he should not have slipped up like this - but we can understand why he did. Temptation can be tough.

I am very glad that you now know the truth. There is no way that the two of you could work through this without starting with honesty. It's a painful process but it will get you both in the right place to move forwards. If there is anything further that has not yet been shared between you, this needs to be shared also, however painful it may be.
Mt22Oh said:
Moving on it makes trusting him to lead difficult.
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Yes, it will. You trusted him and he broke your trust - he has shown himself to be untrustworthy. Of course you won't trust him any more about this, and that is entirely reasonable.

There is a difference between choosing to submit, and trusting. You can do one without the other. It's going to take a lot of work on his part to regain your trust - but that doesn't mean you stop following his lead. You'll have your eyes open more, you'll ask more questions, you won't trust everything he says - but you try to help him become a better man whom you one day will be able to trust again. Don't become his enemy.

Don't take this role-reversal offensively - but it might help to think about a child who has proven themselves untrustworthy. They stole the cookies from the cookie jar. Now, you don't trust them to not touch the cookie jar - but otherwise your relationship with them does not change. You love them still, and you help them become a better child in the hope that one day you will be able to trust them as you used to. You just don't leave them alone with the cookie jar. In the same way, you're not going to trust your husband to be with this woman without you - you might press that you need to accompany him when they are together, which he may refuse but if he does you'll assume the worst - but that doesn't mean you stop loving him, or that it changes the fundamental relationship between you. It just means he rightly no longer has your trust in those areas where he has proven himself untrustworthy.

Forgiveness is the start to being able to cope with this mentally.


While for your husband: The woman you have described sounds desperate for love and very easy to take advantage of. Likely very easy to get into bed (and just as prone to flee). Any man could find and sleep with a woman like that, most wisely avoid it. A few fall for the temptation but label it "polygamy" to feel better about it - I've seen it before in a man I know personally very well, and it was one aspect of a pattern of behaviour that led to him ruining his entire life and losing his wife and children. You need to recognise that you have been taking advantage of her, and that this was wrong. Also, that hiding this from your wife was wrong. So despite the fact that polygamy itself is an acceptable option to God, you have been acting incorrectly. Recognising the problem is the most important first step for you - if you double down on thinking that you're perfect and everything you've done is fine, your life is likely to start falling apart around your ears from this point on.

So, can you answer this simple question: Have you done anything wrong?
 
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