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A Positive Framework for my "No Birth Control" Position

Y

ylop

Member
Real Person*
Hi, ylop here again.

Sometimes our discussions on controversial topics get bogged down into technical details and theological debates.

So to tackle the subject from a different angle, here is my position on birth control, as proposed to a potential partner:

---
I love you, and want you to be with me as a lifetime covenant partner.

A natural part of that relationship would be sexual intimacy.

You already know that I like family and children.

I would be very happy to have more, as children are a blessing from God.

If you choose to come with me, we will not try to do anything to stop, prevent or limit God's blessing.

My love is for you and is not conditional on your child-bearing. If you do not conceive, I will accept that as God's will for us, and love you just as much.

If you do conceive, I will be happy, delighted, ecstatic!

I will be with you through the pregnancy and wherever it leads to.

I will accept fully any children that we have, no matter how healthy or unhealthy they are.

I have been blessed by God and have the full physical, emotional and financial resources to handle whatever blessings God gives us.

That is what I am like, so you decide if that is for you too.
---

ylop
 
Brilliant position ylop, very well stated.

I find having this position is a whole lot less stressful than trying to plan things. If we try to take our family size into our own hands, we have to decide how many children we "should" have and can support (a terribly complicated thing to figure out), and plan (worry about...) how to support them. If we leave it up to God we know we can trust him to not only give us just the right number, but also all the resources we need to support them. One less thing to worry about in life. God is awesome.

Can't help asking - how did she respond? :eek:
 
Hi FollowingHim.

The scripted conversation is a synthesis of conversations with the wife of my youth, and conversations with some possible partners.

I am always very upfront with my personal position and beliefs, including about contraception. And surprisingly, it is received pretty well.

I have a feeling that many women would be happy to have children in a non-scheduled way, once they are comfortable that the man is responsible and will stick around. Perhaps the almost universal embrace of a contraceptive-mentality comes not from women's liberation, but from the desire of men for sex without responsibility; and the understandable reaction of women that they need contraception because the man will not be around later on.

And for those that are not comfortable, that is fine, my views are not compulsory for them. They can just move on. That is the main reason I like to be upfront, and I think it comes from my business background. I like to assess the viability of a deal quickly, and if it is a no-go, to end it and move on. Sounds a bit cold, but I am trying to avoid arguments and broken hearts down the track which can be so much worse.

Regards,

ylop
 
Wow ylop that is well said. My husband and I have the same view. Unfortunately we did not start out with this view, we were enlightened about 2 -3 years after we were married. We now have 6 kids and waiting for more if God sends them.
 
Hi ChrisM and Polarfamily. Thanks for your encouraging feedback. I have thought a bit more about this topic, and the more I think, the more I realise it is up to the man to take the lead here. He needs to outline the "no contraception" position in a positive sense and must provide 100% certainty to the woman that he is going to stick around and support her and the children, no matter what the consequences. There cannot be any doubt in the woman's mind about this. Men must provide strength and leadership here, as they are countering 80 years of church and cultural teaching that it is acceptable to control childbirth. And as far as influencing others, I think this is better done by the example of a large happy family, than by browbeating about the evils of contraception. "A cage rattled is a cage reinforced" a wise person told me a long time ago. ylop
 
Read this and wanted to share a bit.

My husband and I no longer use Birth Control, but for the first 4 years of our marriage we did. I had a Mirena IUD...now I don't necessarily feel God punished me for it, but THAT doesn't belong THERE! I got a terrible pelvic infection from it and an 8 cm cyst from it as well (which was the largest the ultrasound tech had ever seen!) it is now being discovered that these are common side effects of the Mirena. After having it removed I began to feel guilty about taking control of something that wasn't mine to control in the first place...I leave it up to God to give me whatever children (or however many) He see's fit. Originally we had said 2 children was all we wanted, but now we think 4-6...or whatever the lord gives us and I like that!
 
Andres&Christie said:
Read this and wanted to share a bit.

My husband and I no longer use Birth Control, but for the first 4 years of our marriage we did. I had a Mirena IUD...now I don't necessarily feel God punished me for it, but THAT doesn't belong THERE! I got a terrible pelvic infection from it and an 8 cm cyst from it as well (which was the largest the ultrasound tech had ever seen!) it is now being discovered that these are common side effects of the Mirena. After having it removed I began to feel guilty about taking control of something that wasn't mine to control in the first place...I leave it up to God to give me whatever children (or however many) He see's fit. Originally we had said 2 children was all we wanted, but now we think 4-6...or whatever the lord gives us and I like that!
Click to expand...

I'm hearing more and more stories about this. I don't expect IUD's to still be available in the next decade. Many women suffer continuous cysts, which could develop into cancer (although, for the record, I'm not a doctor).

My doctor has a demo in her office and I shutter at the sight. Looks like a crossbow and I've heard that's pretty much how it feels as well. The things we women endure for birth control...
 
I liked this when I first read it...finally thought to comment.

We agreed on four to six children...got to six too quick, and with only one daughter. We now have eight (six boys and two girls) and we will take any more blessings God sees fit to send us, and love them just as much.

I never wanted to try and prevent something as wonderful as a child, but they are a lot of work, and I don't judge people who decide their limit has been reached.

For me, I have just found that my limits are constantly being expanded, and redefined (thank heaven) and I look forward to a lot of grandchildren someday. :)

I also think my children help keep me young, as I get to see the world through their eyes. I know too, that as a mom, I have a whole new appreciation for my mother. *nods*

In my opinion (I have a lot of those LOL) children relate to life at a first grade level, when you become an adult, marry, become a parent, then a parent to more then one child, you continue to grow and learn....and it is like studying and testing at higher grade levels. Poly would be like studying for/earning a PHD in family life...and many people are still failing some elementary level tests.

Nothing wrong with hoping to graduate, or move up to the next grade, but all in His time. So, (reminding myself here) don't forget to enjoy the journey.
 
Well, I went from my pre-poly days of fully accepting birth control (including having a vasectomy for myself) as legitimate Christian stewardship and family management, to the completely opposite extreme of seeing birth control as limiting the blessings of God in my life.

The heart change for me hung on just one Scripture passage, and it caused me to shudder one day:

Psalms 127:3-5

3 Children are an inheritance from the LORD. They are a reward from him. 4 The children born to a man when he is young are like arrows in the hand of a warrior. 5 Blessed is the man who has filled his quiver with them. He will not be put to shame when he speaks with his enemies in the city gate.

It caused me to ask the following questions:

1. Why would I shun an inheritance from God?
2. Why would I deny a reward from God?
3. If children are like arrows, that means that they are defensive and offensive weapons in the enemy's attack on my life. Why would I want a bow, but no arrows, in fighting my enemy?
4. Why would I want to dismiss a blessing that comes from having a quiver full of children?
5. When I "in the gates" (positions of leadership in the world), why would I not want to stand with pride and say, "Look at my children"?

Blessings

Doc
 
(45-18)*X=27*X

$50/week*27*X=$1350*X/week
If X= 2 then $2,700/week *52 weeks per year > $100,000 per year

So how does anyone afford to marry more than one women and still put food on the table while maxing out on the women's "productivity" ;) ?

How to financially prepare to marry 2 or more women if one intends to maximize their production?
 
Always wanted as many as I could get and have never had cause to feel otherwise so no need for birth control. One attraction of polygamy is the possibility of having more children.
 
Well stated Doc.

And DTT, you are presuming that not using birth control will mean you have a lot of children. This is certainly not necessarily the case, throughout the scripture no birth control was used and think how many barren or poorly fertile women are talked about there. You probably know a few yourself, I certainly do. Children are a blessing that God chooses to bestow or withheld, never take fertility for granted.
 
FollowingHim said:
Well stated Doc.

And DTT, you are presuming that not using birth control will mean you have a lot of children. This is certainly not necessarily the case, throughout the scripture no birth control was used and think how many barren or poorly fertile women are talked about there. You probably know a few yourself, I certainly do. Children are a blessing that God chooses to bestow or withheld, never take fertility for granted.
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But you do not know if the women will produce children every year or not produce any children. So how do you prepare financially before marriage since you do not know the production quantity in advance if you intend to max out production in case you actually succeed?
 
You prepare financially for marriage by praying and trusting God that He will provide, however many or few wives and children He gives you. I agree that you can never know how many wives or children you'll end up with if you choose to accept as many or as few as God gives you. So you can't prepare for it yourself, you must simply trust God that the preparation you are able to do will be adequate. Remember however much you prepare you could be killed in a car crash tomorrow anyway, you don't know the future. Life is a scary and wonderful adventure of faith.
 
While the fruit of the womb is certainly a blessing from the Lord, there are other reasons that one might wish to practice birth control. The topic of "birth: to control or not to control" is just the most recent issue I thought I resolved long ago on the side of "not to control." It seems like whenever I say "I will/will not <insert-thing-I-will-or-will-not-do-here>..." the Lord tosses me a situation that causes me to backpedal. Though terribly frustrating, it keeps showing me over and over again that saying to God or to myself "I will do this" or "I won't do that" can be terribly unwise.

As an example, long ago when I was fifteen, I made a girl pregnant. Being a completely self-centered unbelieving fool living in a culture that can justify just about anything, I was quite comfortable condoning the abortion of my child. This remains my greatest regret and I think also my greatest sin. It was crushing to bear the conviction of this when later our Lord rescued me from my delusion. I told God I would never do such a thing again.

However, when Laurie and I married she became pregnant almost immediately and it wasn't too long before we learned that something was terribly wrong. In particular, she had an ectopic pregnancy whereby the implant was either on the ovary itself or elsewhere in the abdomen outside the uterus. The only things that were certain were that the fetus was not growing properly and was not in the womb. Of course, I could have chosen to ask her to do nothing and wait for God to work it out, but given the risk to her life and the unlikelihood of a successful outcome for the child; this seemed a very poor decision. Indeed, I could suddenly see that in His common grace a procedure that is most typically employed for evil (i.e. abortion) was actually the miracle for which we were hoping. Perhaps I am wrong, but I chose the abortion. Perhaps also noteworthy, in the former case of abortion for my convenience, I was quite clearly convicted by the Spirit; while in the latter case of abortion for Laurie's health, I've never been convicted by the Spirit.

Thinking that I'd learned my lesson, I told myself that I wouldn't be so unwise in the future. Perhaps I did learn a lesson in part, because I no longer tell God I will or won't do something; preferring rather to simply ask Him to make me do the right thing even in my doubt. In any case, I still typically tell myself what I will or will not do. One such thing is birth control. I chose not to practice birth control for many of the reasons posted on this thread; most particularly because the Lord is sovereign over the womb and blesses His people with children. I told myself that I wouldn't practice any birth control.

However, yet again I'm faced with a similarly difficult situation. Our full-term baby, Cecile, was in trouble and thanks once again to His common grace, there was a procedure available that preserved the health of both mother and child. As I posted a couple weeks ago, praise God for C-sections! Yesterday we went to the follow-up appointment with the doctor, and we learned that it is actually quite dangerous for Laurie to become pregnant too soon. It seems that uterine rupture is much more likely as the time between a C-section surgery and the next pregnancy contracts. Indeed, doctors won't even attempt a vaginal birth after C-section (VBAC) if the time of previous delivery is less than two years prior to the time of the subsequent delivery. Funny thing is, now we also bring natural childbirth vs. birth by surgery into the mix in the decision of birth: to control or not to control.

Thus, I find myself once again considering something I thought I wouldn't do (i.e. birth control). Even more ironic, I also believe that one should have a natural childbirth unless there is a complication that demands intervention. Thus, if I choose not to use birth control and Laurie becomes quickly pregnant again, then I've chosen a course of action that is inconsistent with a natural childbirth. Argh! My head hurts with the little voice in it continuing to ask whether each of these decisions that I can potentially make are right or wrong in God's view. Then, I remember that there are some voices I need to ignore. I take comfort in the fact that the voice of the Spirit convicts, it doesn't accuse; it comforts, it doesn't trouble. A voice that tries to convince you that there is no right thing you can do, that it is hopeless, is not the voice of your Lord.

Perhaps a bit off topic, but I thought it might console others faced with decisions that on the surface appear to be tough because they seem to be between "righteous" or "wicked" alternatives; when in truth it might be that the decision is truly a matter of choice we're given in the freedom of Christ.
 
Oreslag.

First of all, congrats on your newborn daughter! I don't think I commented on your other post now I think about it, though I meant to. (Blame fuzzy baby brain, 4 kids and a sick, teething baby!)

There are two incredibly important things to be aware of here. The first is that God knows all this and is in charge. The second is that your wife's body does not belong to the doctors. Unless they are holding you both at gunpoint you do not have to have a c-section again.

Remember that the doctors are just talking in general, not specifically about your wife's uterus. I know of plenty of women who have had VBACs less than two years after the c-section. Some of them used herbs to strengthen their uterus before and during pregnancy.

By the way, if you ask that doctor how often you should have children, and how many you should have, I bet the answer would be a lot different to your philosophy. Do not get me wrong, doctors have a great role to play, and they do amazing things like saving your baby. But don't think that because they got it right that one time, that they're not going to push their philosophy on you.

In saying all this, I don't think that deciding to use birth control just so you can have a natural birth instead of a c-section is correct course. However, if your wife perhaps needs a break, or you feel you wish to control things a little more and have prayed about it then that's different. Just don't go off what one doctor has told you.

I'm assuming too, that when you say birth control you mean non hormonal?

It's difficult, I'm sure. Doctors just saved the life of my neice who was born having inhaled meconium and having difficulty breathing. For that I am incredibly grateful. Doctors are wonderful when we need them, but they think that we need them much more than we really do. Remember, God knows your situation, he knows your wife's body.

Good luck :)
 
Oreslag said:
As an example, long ago when I was fifteen, I made a girl pregnant. Being a completely self-centered unbelieving fool living in a culture that can justify just about anything, I was quite comfortable condoning the abortion of my child. This remains my greatest regret and I think also my greatest sin. It was crushing to bear the conviction of this when later our Lord rescued me from my delusion. I told God I would never do such a thing again.
Click to expand...

I am so very sorry for the loss of this child. The loss of any child is a tragic thing, no matter how that occurs. I am glad to know that you are now truly aware how wicked this act was. Isn't grace an amazing thing? That we are forgiven for such unspeakable sins? God loves us, and he knows us.

However, when Laurie and I married she became pregnant almost immediately and it wasn't too long before we learned that something was terribly wrong. In particular, she had an ectopic pregnancy whereby the implant was either on the ovary itself or elsewhere in the abdomen outside the uterus. The only things that were certain were that the fetus was not growing properly and was not in the womb. Of course, I could have chosen to ask her to do nothing and wait for God to work it out, but given the risk to her life and the unlikelihood of a successful outcome for the child; this seemed a very poor decision. Indeed, I could suddenly see that in His common grace a procedure that is most typically employed for evil (i.e. abortion) was actually the miracle for which we were hoping. Perhaps I am wrong, but I chose the abortion. Perhaps also noteworthy, in the former case of abortion for my convenience, I was quite clearly convicted by the Spirit; while in the latter case of abortion for Laurie's health, I've never been convicted by the Spirit.
Click to expand...

This is my worst nightmare. I can't imagine having to make this decision. I feel for you both, that you had to go through this, and I rejoice with you that your wife is alive and well.
 
DiscussingTheTopic said:
But you do not know if the women will produce children every year or not produce any children. So how do you prepare financially before marriage since you do not know the production quantity in advance if you intend to max out production in case you actually succeed?
Click to expand...

No, you don't. That's the fun thing about life. Really you cannot prepare. You might decide to only have one or two children, and God gives you triplets, I've seen it happen!

It is good to prepare as much as you can DTT, but God is in control. With Him all things are possible. If He gives you twenty children, then He will help you provide for twenty children. And like Samuel says, we know of many couples who cannot even have one. All the financial preparation in the world cannot help with that.
 
Oreslag, remember that the Bible never says "Thou shalt not use birth control", or "Thou shalt not have a c-section". We have freedom to decide whatever is best for our families in these matters, and what is most in accordance with God's general will. If we have enough faith, we can relax and trust that God will bring us the children He intends to in whatever situation - but lacking that faith is not a sin. I fully agree with Sarah that you don't need to worry too much about the medical side of things here, most doctors are fully indoctrinated in the idea that everyone should have only 1-3 children, and will come up with all sorts of reasons why not to have a child but never suggest that maybe you should have one. Again, we can have faith that God knows what is best.

Just make whatever decision you believe is best for your family, knowing neither option is a sin (except certain forms of birth control of course).
 
Oreslag said:
However, yet again I'm faced with a similarly difficult situation. Our full-term baby, Cecile, was in trouble and thanks once again to His common grace, there was a procedure available that preserved the health of both mother and child. As I posted a couple weeks ago, praise God for C-sections! Yesterday we went to the follow-up appointment with the doctor, and we learned that it is actually quite dangerous for Laurie to become pregnant too soon. It seems that uterine rupture is much more likely as the time between a C-section surgery and the next pregnancy contracts. Indeed, doctors won't even attempt a vaginal birth after C-section (VBAC) if the time of previous delivery is less than two years prior to the time of the subsequent delivery. Funny thing is, now we also bring natural childbirth vs. birth by surgery into the mix in the decision of birth: to control or not to control.
Click to expand...

Uterine rupture is a very real risk, the reason why we don't have as many maternal deaths any more is because we know so much more. I commend you for thinking of your wife's health and life by listening to the Doctors who know exactly how long it takes a direct cut through a dynamic muscle (such as the uterus) takes to heal.

Congratulations on the new baby :D

B
 
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