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A Positive Framework for my "No Birth Control" Position

FollowingHim said:
Deborah, Annette never said that she left the marriage as she wasn't allowed to have children, and I don't think anyone else has presumed that either or said it would be a justifiable reason for divorce. Assumption Airlines strikes again! :D

Dear Samuel,

I'm not assumming anything...that is why I said,... "IF" :?: ...

Seeking Great Pearl said:
that is, IF :?: that is why she moved on.

There have been some who have left relationships for less than something as important as bearing children, and with so many people reading BibFam these days, I wanted to make the point that we need to be careful...that includes myself ;) I guess there are always those who will skim through BibFam and pick out the "he shouldn't have's" or "she shouldn't have's" and put them into their bag of "now I can's," whatever the case may be.

Again, I'm not saying Annette did or did not leave for that reason, I wanted to state that though not being "allowed" to have children is sad and heartbreaking even, it is not a valid reason for divorce in any covenant of marriage. I would hope that was not the case here...I have to "assume" it was not and there were other circumstanses involved.

Sorry for the confusion. I hope that clarified my prior post some at least.

In Him,
Deborah
 
I posit that hindsight is a great teacher. Perhaps we can present hypothetical concepts in terms of and relation to the intent of the thread rather than an individual. If ever I appear to be in error, I exhort you all to offer correction. Regarding which:

Matthew 18:15-17
&
Galations 6:1

As for the topic, I'll say this. One of the most attractive attributes a woman may possess is the desire to bring forth children and rear them in the ways of the Lord. One of the most amazing testimonies is to have done so.
 
Sorry for missing the "if" Deborah.

To be completed clear, I am in agreement with ylop on the issue of contraception. However it is in my mind something that a husband must investigate, decide what is biblical, and decide what his family will do about it. If a husband disagrees with my perspective and decides contraception is right for his family, that's his decision. It might be the wrong decision, but he does have the authority to make it, as he is the head. I agree with Deborah that this is not at all a valid reason for divorce.

If a wife is told to do something like this that she believes is incorrect, she should obey her husband in it, while making her own opinion known (lovingly!) and encouraging him to look into it further and possibly change his mind.
 
Thank you for your replies . I will be a selfie and say I read them with pleasure as they endorse my own opinions , both spiritual and emotional .

To clear up one point , I did not leave the relationship willingly . He worked for a company which closed in Toronto to concentrate operations on the west coast so he had an option of redundancy or transfer expenses paid with a salary increase . He chose the latter . I was nearing the end of my University degree courses and I decided to stay on . I did visit them months later but their lifestyle had changed. I was disappointed but returned to Toronto to my blue stocking life feeling very lonely . Later , I left Toronto to start afresh and earn a living in a different town .

I may write to some of you individually just to say ' thank you' personally and to settle any points remaining unclear from my posts .

Annette
 
I really liked what you said. It was beautiful. As for my husband and I we decided that we wouldn't use birth control even from day one. I used birth control in my heathen days as a teenager and just didn't like how it made me feel. I even used the Depo-Provera shot for a short while as I had a hard time remembering to take a pill every morning. And that shot was even worse and it made me feel disgusting. Only did 3 shot cycles , but it did its damage anyway. Horrible leg cramps from my hip down and even at one point I couldn't barely walk and bloating and the water weight that I gained made me sick to my stomach to even look at myself in the mirror. And the leg cramp on the side of your injection site is "supposed to be normal". You have got to be kidding me. So when we got married we decided to leave my womb up to G-D. He does the best family planning anyway. I do natural family planning. I track my cycle on an app on my phone it counts my cycle days for me tells me when I will be most likely to become pregnant and we decide what we will do next. I won't go into great detail, but all the work on my phone is done for me and G-D does the rest. It is a lot less stressful this way.
 
I haven't had time to read this thread until today. Birth control is such a controversial subject, isn't it.

In an ideal world, I can see no honest need for the practice. Chemical birth control (almost without exception) is abortifacient when it doesn't prevent fertilization (which with all the pills is about 25% of the time). Spermicide in the US isn't even honestly spermicidal, it simply makes the vaginal mucus so thick that sperm can't travel. IUDs with or without hormones, etc., have serious side effects to them. Implants (like Norplant and its imitators) are/were carcinogenic. I.E., they all have serious risks and side effects. Barrier methods are not perfect, either, but at least they don't have serious health side effects. Human bodies were designed to be healthier with sex and lots of it. Women's moods have been shown to stabilize in the presence of prostaglandins from seminal fluids (women don't have prostate glands, and thus don't produce these mood-enhancing chemicals), but get depressed more easily without them. We are now learning that every pregnancy puts stem-cells from the baby into the mother and that these stem-cells continue to reproduce and repair mom's damaged body parts for the remainder of her life. Breast feeding and pregnancy are HUGE contributors to not getting breast cancer. In short, the benefits to having kids are numerous and desirable.

But, we don't live in that ideal world. Ectopic pregnancy will kill the baby and will usually kill the mother if it doesn't happen in the abdominal wall. Most happen in the fallopian tubes. Many different health conditions make pregnancy dangerous or fatal. My wife is in end stage renal failure. Focal Segmental Glomerulo-sclerosis has destroyed the one kidney she has. She does dialysis every night while she sleeps, via a dialysate fluid placed in her peritoneal sack. Pregnancy would be very dangerous and she would be hsopitalized from at least month three until the end. She would have to change to hemodialysis, which was extremely hard on her body chemistry, and probably life shortening if she had stayed on that method. If both parents had the regressive gene for cystic fibrosis, their children would be in significant danger of this disease that kills most by 35-40 years old. Many conditions could be listed, I am certain. Age itself can be an issue. Older women can have significant complications in pregnancy. Adoption, fostering, and limiting pregnancy opportunities should be considered very seriously in such situations. However, each family must take their unique circumstances, giftings, and abilities into account. Prayer, prayer, prayer! It's not optional.

Finances are another issue. Right now, there is no way I could support another mouth to feed, much less other necessities for another person in our home, no matter their age. We're honestly just that tight. It won't last forever, but it's a serious issue for the moment. I could make do with very little and still add family members, but not at present.

Ordinarily, I would not recommend birth control. But I am not in a place to determine whether or not it is appropriate for anyone else. Were I to have a second wife, I would probably want more children, but I would have to take a lot into consideration.

What I am surprised not to see is a discussion of Natural Family Planning. It has been shown to as effective as the best chemical birth control methods when done correctly and leaves everyone open to life. It also does no damage to the woman's body the way almost all chemical birth control does.

Here is an introduction for those who aren't familiar: http://americanpregnancy.org/preventing ... ssNFP.html
 
There are also some great books out there about Natural Family Planning. I haven't read any of them yet as I had taught the L-rd had taught me how to do this. But I still would like to read them.
 
sl,
I very much appreciate your post. so sorry that your wife is in such poor physical condition. I can fully understand your need to avoid a pregnancy. I just give a little less weight to the financial considerations than many do.

your information about the effects of sex on a woman's body are interesting, the stem cell thing sounds a little fanciful but I hope it is real. I am not arguing, it is just that we seem to live in an age in which multiple studies will show that light is dark and vice versa. :roll:
 
First wife & I used Natural Family Planning, as taught to us by our Phillipino Marital Directors. ( ;) Southlander) Worked great right up until we "cheated" on our 1st anniversary. Thank God for cheating! Saw the result 2 weekends ago, and couldn't be more proud of or thankful for her!

Did that make me a cheating spouse?! :eek: :? :lol:
 
steve said:
sl,
I very much appreciate your post. so sorry that your wife is in such poor physical condition. I can fully understand your need to avoid a pregnancy. I just give a little less weight to the financial considerations than many do.
Financial considerations are my lowest and last consideration. I just don't put a lot of weight on it beyond purely practical considerations.

As for my wife's health, it is our cross to bear. We have limits placed on our plans this way, but they have directed us into more fruitful places where we could reach more folks and folks we otherwise would never have met. It's not all bad and God provides.

steve said:
your information about the effects of sex on a woman's body are interesting, the stem cell thing sounds a little fanciful but I hope it is real. I am not arguing, it is just that we seem to live in an age in which multiple studies will show that light is dark and vice versa. :roll:
I can understand your reluctance to accept new science considering how much science is abused to "prove" one thing or another. However, here are a couple links for your consideration. Do with them what you will. :)

http://www.scientificamerican.com/artic ... hers-brain
https://www.fightaging.org/archives/201 ... gnancy.php
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2633676/

Enjoy!
 
CecilW said:
First wife & I used Natural Family Planning, as taught to us by our Phillipino Marital Directors. ( ;) Southlander) Worked great right up until we "cheated" on our 1st anniversary. Thank God for cheating! Saw the result 2 weekends ago, and couldn't be more proud of or thankful for her!

I was there for the birth of five of my six children. (No babysitter to help out an allow me in for the c-section on my youngest.) It is one of the most remarkable things I have ever known in life, to see a child born. I am not sure if the child or the fact of a woman bearing them is more exciting. It is among my best and most powerful memories in life. Wouldn't trade them for anything.
 
Southlander, we used NFP when we first got married (Billings method), until we decided to leave everything truly up to God. I just haven't discussed it here because the topic of this thread is "no birth control" rather than "methods of birth control". But if somebody does believe it is right for their situation to control their family size, then NFP is certainly the way to go, it is definately as effective as the pill. We learnt NFP from a local Catholic charity that teaches it, the Catholic church is very strong on this so if you're interested it's well worth looking at what they may have available in your area.

Everything you need to know is here:
http://www.thebillingsovulationmethod.org
Or in this book:
http://www.thebillingsovulationmeth...-fertility-to-achieve-or-avoid-pregnancy.html

And Cecil, if you've got no moral objection to barrier methods you can just use those occasionally and "cheat" as much as you like... ;) I must admit however that our first was conceived in similar circumstances, and I am also very pleased with the result!
 
Hi, ylop here again.

Sometimes our discussions on controversial topics get bogged down into technical details and theological debates.

So to tackle the subject from a different angle, here is my position on birth control, as proposed to a potential partner:

---
I love you, and want you to be with me as a lifetime covenant partner.

A natural part of that relationship would be sexual intimacy.

You already know that I like family and children.

I would be very happy to have more, as children are a blessing from God.

If you choose to come with me, we will not try to do anything to stop, prevent or limit God's blessing.

My love is for you and is not conditional on your child-bearing. If you do not conceive, I will accept that as God's will for us, and love you just as much.

If you do conceive, I will be happy, delighted, ecstatic!

I will be with you through the pregnancy and wherever it leads to.

I will accept fully any children that we have, no matter how healthy or unhealthy they are.

I have been blessed by God and have the full physical, emotional and financial resources to handle whatever blessings God gives us.

That is what I am like, so you decide if that is for you too.
---

ylop

That was very well worded. I would love to have more kids with my second wife(she is the mom of 2 of my kids) but she has to take daily meds that could do great harm to an unborn baby.
 
That was very well worded. I would love to have more kids with my second wife(she is the mom of 2 of my kids) but she has to take daily meds that could do great harm to an unborn baby.

Age is a very important part of deciding to have children, how old are your wives?
 
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