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A word to the wives
- Thread starter steve
- Start date
The god of this world gives women authority, but The creator God gives me the authority. If my wife wants to not “allow” me to have authority in my house than she is serving another god and I will not abdicate my position as head. She would need to leave my home and go serve her god. My God will fight for me and rebuild what the enemy tried to destroy.
Let me fix that for you:
‘Wife, your husband exercises no more authority over you than you allow him to.’
But I agree with your fix. “Exercises” as opposed to “has”. And I’m not going to try and convince you otherwise as I agree with you.
In reality, we live in a matriarchal society with a system in place that gives almost all power and authority to women. All that’s ever needed to flip that switch is one phone call and damn near anything and everything can be taken away from a husband. Do I have authority in my own home and with my family?...absolutely. But the fact is that authority is there due to my wives willfully submitting to me as their head. I lead and they follow. Is it scriptural that I should have that authority?...yes. Would they be wrong in not willfully submitting?...yes.
I agree with @David D. There is God’s design for our relationships and families, how it should be. And then there’s the god of this world, the reality we live in. I’d be kidding myself if I thought I had any authority over my wives that they didn’t willfully submit to me, regardless or whether they should or not.
I also agree with @David D , this is how my home and family will always operate as well, using the biblical model God have us. But in the end, I cannot force one of my wives to stay and be a part of it. They’d be free to leave at any time.
Is it authority if it cannot be exercised?
It’s not that black/white. The enemy is a lot more subtle than your response leaves room for.
Two words. Position and leverage. Both are a requirement for leadership.
Position is where you are in life and the family, not your title. Are you out front leading in a focused direction and shouldering the brunt of your decisions? That is a position that generates authority.
Leverage is the amount of influence you have gained from your vision for the family, your ability and history to protect and provide and from your position (who and what you are).
A man with both position and leverage will have options, thus authority. A man without either will be subject to the whims of a wife with options.
Position is where you are in life and the family, not your title. Are you out front leading in a focused direction and shouldering the brunt of your decisions? That is a position that generates authority.
Leverage is the amount of influence you have gained from your vision for the family, your ability and history to protect and provide and from your position (who and what you are).
A man with both position and leverage will have options, thus authority. A man without either will be subject to the whims of a wife with options.
Yes I understand that the enemy is very subtle. But I have to guard and steward my home for the kingdom. I can’t have a wife in my home that thinks she’s allowing me to have authority in my home. It isn’t her call the authority has been given by my creator to me over my household. She is completely free to go. I feel very responsible to my God and family to walk in Gods ways and not be in love with the world. I hope and try to be a head that my wife loves to be under and sees herself becoming more like Christ and bearing good fruit because of it.
“Blessed is the man that hath a virtuous wife, for the number of his days shall be double. A virtuous woman rejoiceth her husband, and he shall fulfil the years of his life in peace. A good wife is a good portion, which shall be given in the portion of them that fear the Lord.
An evil wife is a yoke shaken to and fro: he that hath hold of her is as though he held a scorpion.
A wicked woman is given as a portion to a wicked man: but a godly woman is given to him that feareth the Lord. A dishonest woman contemneth shame: but an honest woman will reverence her husband. A shameless woman shall be counted as a dog; but she that is shamefaced will fear the Lord. A woman that honoreth her husband shall be judged wise of all; but she that dishonoreth him in her pride shall be counted ungodly of all.”
Ecclesiasticus 26:1-3, 7, 23-26 KJVA
That fix brings up an interesting distinction. When I read what Steve wrote I heard him talking about the exercise of authority. But what he literally said was about the possession of authority. The claim, literally, is that the wife is the source of authority, which she voluntarily surrenders to him.
And a lot of times when people talk about this topic, 'you can't tell me what to do', 'submission must be voluntary', 'its wrong to make her do something'...they're communicating the practical idea that her submission is contingent upon her voluntary participation, yet the underpinning idea/theory is that he actually has no authority over her. Voluntary submission is't submission (i.e. being in subjection to another); its cooperation. If he has only the authority she allows him, then she's actually the source of his authority and we've inverted the headship of God->Christ->man->woman; which technically makes the woman into a god (no surprise various features of woman worship creep in; its a temptation that goes back to the garden).
An analogy... Taxes. No one can 'force' you to pay them. Payment requires you to choose to comply. Yet that choice does not mean they're voluntary. Taxes aren't voluntary, they're compulsory. If you don't pay there will be consequences (fines, arrest, imprisonment). The authority for taxation doesn't come from your voluntary cooperation, but from the sovereign authority of the governing institution which you fall under in the human hierarchy.
Likewise in our day, even though the god of this world has given the wife a lot of leverage with which to fight back against the husbands authority, he still has it (1 Cor 11). So far as tools go, the balance is tipped way in the wifes favor. But this doesn't mean husbands are at the complete mercy of the wife. For the exercise of our authority is consistent with her created nature, what she deep down wants; often even when she's resisting it. He can still enact various consequences for her disobedience or kick her out if she won't comply.
As a matter of principle yes, Men have authority from God. The more appropriate question is, are we able to exercise it? Is there a point where it can be so restricted so as to be null? I don't know. It is a fair question given the extreme degree to which men have been dis-empowered in this day.
Rulers of this world have authority to do many things, but they're not always able to exercise all of those for practical reasons; at least not without severe enough consequences that they stay their hand.
And a lot of times when people talk about this topic, 'you can't tell me what to do', 'submission must be voluntary', 'its wrong to make her do something'...they're communicating the practical idea that her submission is contingent upon her voluntary participation, yet the underpinning idea/theory is that he actually has no authority over her. Voluntary submission is't submission (i.e. being in subjection to another); its cooperation. If he has only the authority she allows him, then she's actually the source of his authority and we've inverted the headship of God->Christ->man->woman; which technically makes the woman into a god (no surprise various features of woman worship creep in; its a temptation that goes back to the garden).
An analogy... Taxes. No one can 'force' you to pay them. Payment requires you to choose to comply. Yet that choice does not mean they're voluntary. Taxes aren't voluntary, they're compulsory. If you don't pay there will be consequences (fines, arrest, imprisonment). The authority for taxation doesn't come from your voluntary cooperation, but from the sovereign authority of the governing institution which you fall under in the human hierarchy.
Likewise in our day, even though the god of this world has given the wife a lot of leverage with which to fight back against the husbands authority, he still has it (1 Cor 11). So far as tools go, the balance is tipped way in the wifes favor. But this doesn't mean husbands are at the complete mercy of the wife. For the exercise of our authority is consistent with her created nature, what she deep down wants; often even when she's resisting it. He can still enact various consequences for her disobedience or kick her out if she won't comply.
As a matter of principle yes, Men have authority from God. The more appropriate question is, are we able to exercise it? Is there a point where it can be so restricted so as to be null? I don't know. It is a fair question given the extreme degree to which men have been dis-empowered in this day.
Rulers of this world have authority to do many things, but they're not always able to exercise all of those for practical reasons; at least not without severe enough consequences that they stay their hand.
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The western culture is very anti-patriarchy and is very willing to support any woman who "fights" against patriarchy. I have seen many times where a husband tried to assume the headship of his family only to have his wife fight to keep control. Which eventually led to her leaving the marriage.
I think that most women by nature want to submit to their husband but culture has taught them not to and to fight against their natural inclination to do so. Depending on how much she, or her friends, or her parents have bought into this culture depends on how much of a war within her and the marriage there will be.
This world has done everything it can to give the wife the worldly authority in the family and invert God's design. A man is hard pressed to find a woman that will set aside all this worldly authority and follow God's design, and even if he does there is still the power of this world that lays in wait until she tires of him or he does something she doesn't like.
However the writings of the prophets and apostles are quite clear about God's design. God -> husband -> wife -> children. The authority a man has over his wife comes from God. The authority a wife has over her husband comes from man.
So...
Does the husband have no more worldly authority over his wife than she allows him to have? Yes
Does the husband have no more God given authority over his wife than she allows him to have? No
I think that most women by nature want to submit to their husband but culture has taught them not to and to fight against their natural inclination to do so. Depending on how much she, or her friends, or her parents have bought into this culture depends on how much of a war within her and the marriage there will be.
This world has done everything it can to give the wife the worldly authority in the family and invert God's design. A man is hard pressed to find a woman that will set aside all this worldly authority and follow God's design, and even if he does there is still the power of this world that lays in wait until she tires of him or he does something she doesn't like.
However the writings of the prophets and apostles are quite clear about God's design. God -> husband -> wife -> children. The authority a man has over his wife comes from God. The authority a wife has over her husband comes from man.
So...
Does the husband have no more worldly authority over his wife than she allows him to have? Yes
Does the husband have no more God given authority over his wife than she allows him to have? No
Excellent and well summarized!
Following on that, when the pastor says, "Submission must be voluntary. You can't force her to do anything. You need to convince her to want to follow you. Scripture doesn't allow you to tell her she must obey you." he is arguing you have no authority over her, your authority to act only comes from her. He's arguing she is your head. Which is why these types usually find abhorrent the thought of a husband enacting consequences for disobedience.
It sounds true, since we can't physically force her to obey; she still has free will. But the statements are predicated upon the fact of her headship over you. Free will to act contrary to authority doesn't mean authority doesn't exist. If it did, we wouldn't have a word for rebellion.
Paul made an interesting comment on the subject at Eph 5:21-33. Its not always easy for a wife to be submissive to her husband, thus the words of Paul were written to assist us in making the relationship work. verse 22 says " Wives, be subject to your husbands, as to the Lord." then he says the husband is head as Christ is head of the church. But then he said in verse 25 "Husbands love your wives , as Christ loved the Church and gave himself up for her." Then in verse 31 he quotes Jesus comments at Mat 19:5. But the next comments are interesting in verse 33, he says , "However, let each one of you love his wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband."
So a man is instructed to "love" his wife and she is instructed to "respect" him.
If a man truly loves his wife and if she knows and understands it, even knowing that he would lay down his life to protect her, then it is much easier to respect such a man! If on the other hand he attempts to wield his authority like a hammer and attempt to "punish" her for not not "obeying" him, then her assignment to respect him just got a lot harder.
As a husband, if we had someone with authority placed over us and he was kind loving and always worked for our best interest, then to both submit and follow such a person would be much easier, but if he just demanded obedience and saw us as nothing more than cannon fodder, could we respect and follow such a man? So to is the situation for a wife and her husband!
It is good to remember that both the husband and the wife have roles to play in this matter and when the husband acts in harmony with his assignment then it is much easier for the wife to act in harmony with hers, and visa versa. A husbands headship over his wife is not total nor absolute as his headship is dependent on his submission to Christ. If he plays his part as required then she too can play hers, as in reality both are under Christ and neither have the right to be independent of Christ or his authority.
Like most things its not just one sided.
So a man is instructed to "love" his wife and she is instructed to "respect" him.
If a man truly loves his wife and if she knows and understands it, even knowing that he would lay down his life to protect her, then it is much easier to respect such a man! If on the other hand he attempts to wield his authority like a hammer and attempt to "punish" her for not not "obeying" him, then her assignment to respect him just got a lot harder.
As a husband, if we had someone with authority placed over us and he was kind loving and always worked for our best interest, then to both submit and follow such a person would be much easier, but if he just demanded obedience and saw us as nothing more than cannon fodder, could we respect and follow such a man? So to is the situation for a wife and her husband!
It is good to remember that both the husband and the wife have roles to play in this matter and when the husband acts in harmony with his assignment then it is much easier for the wife to act in harmony with hers, and visa versa. A husbands headship over his wife is not total nor absolute as his headship is dependent on his submission to Christ. If he plays his part as required then she too can play hers, as in reality both are under Christ and neither have the right to be independent of Christ or his authority.
Like most things its not just one sided.
Thank you.Excellent and well summarized!
I used to tell my wife that I could not be the boss if she did not let me be. That is not to say that that affected my authority, it just affected the results of my authority. Free-will is always in play. There are areas of give and take and areas of tolerance. Hopefully we can walk in agreement, Hopefully I can teach and explain in such away as to persuade her voluntary cooperation. Submission comes into play when agreement is not achieved. There are times when there must be the demonstration of authority that results in 3 choices, Submit. Leave, or be Cast Out! Hopefully I have acted in Love and in the fear of the Lord If it comes to that. I must be confident enough as a man to Love and to Lead. My Fear of the Lord should be the balancing factor, in that, my accountably to Him keeps me a King and not a tyrant.
Authority comes with responsibility. As a Husband you can delegate your authority, Ultimately you cannot delegate your responsibility. If you give the keys to the car to the child too soon you are still responsible.
There is a difference b
There is a difference between authority and power. Right doesn’t make might any more than might makes right.
That is something I spend a lot of time thinking about...
Interesting way to look at this.
Let’s zoom out and view a bigger picture.
We are bought with a price, we are not our own. So we have no innate authority. But we still choose whether to yield our members to sin or to righteousness, denying the Creator’s authority over us.
We don’t have the authority to deny His authority, but we, all too often, do it anyway.
So it is in marriage.