• Biblical Families is not a dating website. It is a forum to discuss issues relating to marriage and the Bible, and to offer guidance and support, not to find a wife. Click here for more information.

aklirich

steve

steve

Seasoned Member
Real Person
Male
I have given you your own thread due to the fact that comments on your position will quickly derail the other thread. :)



aklirich wrote:
Hi SC. Great to hear your story. Dare I say that I have been suffering in silence on a similar situation.


The difference in my case is that I merely mentioned to my wife that polygamy is not unscriptural (after 2 Samuel 12:8 "appeared" to me in a new way). I have (and since not had) any one in mind as a potential second wife in particular.

It has been unbearable. The suspicion, the sly comments etc have been too much.

Now, this is my personal opinion and largely based on my personal experience. If I get to a point where I am persuaded to take a second wife, I will struggle a lot with the concept of love-not-hate. I have two reasons for saying this:

1. None of the fathers in the scripture practiced it.
2. Should the disposition of my wife continue to be what it is towards polygamy, she will rather leave the marriage ( and bitterly ruin all that we have built) than to live in a polygamous relationship.

Given these reasons, my view is that if a man can afford it, a second home should be started for a new wife until a first wife is willing to accept the leading of a man in this situation. The arrangement should be open and made know to everyone (including family and friends).

Yes, the first wife might not have bargained for a polygamous relationship at marriage , but if God is leading a man in a particular way, He is often angry with such a man if they dither in doing His will (regardless of who is influencing them). This move becomes pertinent when a point is reached when a first wife sees clearly that polygamy is scriptural (haven been lovingly taken through the scripture) but refuses to be led by her husband. I see this as an act of deliberate disobedience.

This is my view and I am happy to be corrected. But be gentle.
 
Re: alkirich

My thought after reading this is....what a defining moment for you and your wife. This is the moment that you must help your wife see her fears for what they are...LIES, and help her understand the truth instead. These fears will most likely not be new to you but until now they are more easily appeased or ignored. The idea of plural marriage seems to have that magical power of revealing our true hearts, the good and the bad, like nothing else. There could also be some spiritual aspects going on. The controlling spirit of feminism is strong and it has societies backing to make it "okay" in her eyes. I encourage some stepped up prayer time and even some fasting to have clear insight on that.

Our strongest fears are usually believed from a young age and so it takes a safe place to be brave enough to face them and the desire to hear what God has to say about them. You as her husband can be a pivotal person in leading her to freedom. Of course, God is the one who truly brings change but it is through the faithfulness of those we love that makes that change tangible.

I have been married for 26 years and a first wife for 17 years. When I look back on the first 9 years of my marriage I am appalled at how I was. I believed so many lies about what a wife was and who I was. Out of the mercy of my Heavenly Father he has used my husband, my SW and friends to help me see more clearly. Was it fun? easy? NO, but it is worth it in the end.

I will be praying for your wife that she will be able to hear the Lord's voice and be able to hear Him in you.

With hope for the future, Julie
 
Re: alkirich

Great post Julie! Thank you!

I think our fears only need to be realized if we are not doing our best. Our experience with poly showed me that I am valued, treasured and have no need to fear losing my husband. If I had been mean spirited with my husband (not over poly but just in general) I am sure he wouldn't have felt that way about me. The blessing of Yah and our husband is somewhat dependent on our outward behavior.

I am not super woman and I can not do everything that needs to be done, but my husband knows that. All he or the Father want is for me to try my best with a good heart attitude. Alkirich I hope things get easier for you and that you both can learn and grow together through this. :) May the Father grant you both wisdom.
 
Re: alkirich

Thanks Julie and Elisheba. All shall be well with you and your families too.


If we leave aside my personal situation, I would have wanted to know what everyone thinks of the center-piece of my argument, which is: You do the will of God promptly, regardless of who may or may not approve.

For example, should a wife be able to prevent her husband from doing the work of ministry (for an array of valid reasons).
With love-not-hate, how would the levirate marriage work should a first wife be against it. (Remember that it is the husband that is held responsible for not performing that duty).

It is true that taking another wife is not the same as starting an outreach to, say, Africa, but if you are led by the Lord to an individual as your second wife and you couldn't fulfil that responsibility because of your first wife, who is answerable to God on that?

In Genesis 18: 16 - 19, a secret was shared with Abraham because the Lord knew that " he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment". This sounds to me like the Lord places a high premium on someone who will promptly enforce HIS Lordship in their household.
 
Re: alkirich

I can relate somewhat to what you're saying. My wife knows my beliefs and 100% disagrees. She's already stated that if I pursue another woman, she will leave. This itself is a consideration on her part as I have already refused that I will not refute my belief as I will not tell God what He cannot do in my life. That brings up the problem, I think, you are in. All I can do is leave it up to Him. I ask and pray that He reveals His Truth to both of us. And if God brings another women to join my family, I can only hope and pray that we are ready. As I told my wife, poly is not the goal. It's not the reason. It's not the purpose.

Hope that helps or at least doesn't confuse you more. Bottom line, you cannot control what she does and you cannot force her to stay. Just as much as it is our choice to follow Christ or not, it is the wife's choice to follow her husband... or not.
 
Re: alkirich

alkirich,
My first ministry is to my household. It took me 3 years of patient ministry to my wife before she was able to embrace the concept. I cannot tell you how valuable it is to have earned and built her trust during that time. Now she is the help that is meet for me and truly my best friend. I would have lost out on a lot if I had failed in the ministry that I was already in.


Mat 25:21
His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
 
Re: alkirich

Amen, steve.

Coupla thoughts:

alkirich, I think you mean "love-not-force". If it were up to me, I'd retire that phrase, but it's not, so all I can do is point out what's wrong with it. The expression "false dichotomy" comes to mind....

You're not going to "force" a woman to do anything in this culture, and there's a serious Catch-22 built into the situation of a guy who thinks he's "called" to be polygamous who loses his first wife (and typically the children thereof) in the process of clumsily trying to execute on what he thinks he heard from God. How's that "force" thing working in that situation?

Meanwhile, a man is not accountable to his wife, he's accountable to God, and as a general (oh, let's just go ahead and say simplistic...) rule, that's fine, but let's go ahead and retire that one too, if the thought is that the phrase "I'm doing it for God" covers a multitude of mixed motives. (Let's file that one next to "this is going to hurt me more than it hurts you", and "this breakup isn't about you, it's about me".)

Keep in mind also that just because you have had your eyes opened to some truths of scripture and some errors of our culture doesn't necessarily mean you're called to do anything particular about it. You mentioned that there is no one on your radar at this point. You might want to keep it that way for awhile.

If God is legitimately exposing trust and obedience issues in your wife, be charitable. You are asking her to become a different person than she is, and that is hard for anyone and will take time. If you can't love your wife through this, you probably don't have what it takes to be a poly husband. Finding fault in her will not help. Look at your leadership to this point. Why doesn't she trust you? Why is she insecure? Why does she suspect your motives are selfish and not grounded in obedience to God? Work on that.

Finally, there is somewhere out there a hypothetical line in the sand that you may have to cross in your obedience to Christ that your wife will not be able to follow you over. If that happens and it doesn't break your heart, you're doing it wrong.
 
Re: alkirich

Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. (1 Cor 13:4-7)

Whatever understanding we may wish to apply in the life of another is wasted if not first fully applied to ourselves. When we come across truth, when we find a path over a valley or through the thorns, we sometimes rush to share it and point the way without making the journey ourselves. Our Creator goes before us and makes the way, creates a straight path. Coming from differing points, all of our paths are unique.

It is fantastic when our spouse is in the same place as us regarding a particular aspect. When they aren't, love should be emphasized. In both cases, we need the faith to trust that the way is being prepared by the One who promised to do so. As for the "how to" of the situation or judging the approaches of you or your spouse, I have no side to choose other than love. I encourage you Alkirich to examine yourself. Beyond any provision time or monetary, mental or physical capability, my family benefits the most when I am closest to the Maker and the least when I am distant. He knows how best to care for us. Yes, you do the will of God promptly. If He calls to to minister, minister. Feed the hungry. Shelter the homeless. Shout the Word from the tops of every mountain, highway, transit station, city hall steps, and practice gymnastics just so you can balance atop park benches to be better heard! Consider the other passages surrounding the quote though. We are nothing and gain nothing without love.

Stay clay.
 
Re: alkirich

I'm really enjoying this discussion. Alkirich you make a very valid point about obedience to God even when it hurts. Since my personal circumstances do involve an actual situation where poly marriage is God's (long term) solution, your ideas have made me stop and ask myself - 'if I hesitate because I fear my wife's reactions, will this result in prolonged pain/suffering for another?'

However, I can't go past Steve's sage advice:

steve said:
alkirich,
My first ministry is to my household. It took me 3 years of patient ministry to my wife before she was able to embrace the concept. I cannot tell you how valuable it is to have earned and built her trust during that time. Now she is the help that is meet for me and truly my best friend. I would have lost out on a lot if I had failed in the ministry that I was already in.
Click to expand...

If I'm constantly looking outside my marriage - even in the name of strengthening and ultimately improving it - I have failed in my duty of care to be attentive to the current needs of my wife and children. My marriage as it is right now is my current ministry - it's the solid reality of life, compared to the hazy and uncertain future. Although I can see the way forward, it's not enough to simply start walking and hope my wife catches up with me somewhere down the path. I know that if I did that, I would never see her again. Any transition to a poly situation must include my current helpmeet (otherwise, it's not really poly) ;)
 
Re: alkirich

aklirich said:
If we leave aside my personal situation, I would have wanted to know what everyone thinks of the center-piece of my argument, which is: You do the will of God promptly, regardless of who may or may not approve.
Click to expand...
But of course, whatever YHWH tells you to do, do it promptly!
I could not agree with you more!

But here are the hard questions:
1) What EXACTLY does He tell you to do?
Highly-pathetical (hypothetical) situations are not allowed. period. He either said X or He did not, there is no "what if". Your situation is your situation and does not resemble anyone else's.

2) What is His timing?
This can actually be the trickiest wicket.
All too often we get His direction and then we set out to accomplish it as if He has a stopwatch on us and is giving us extra points for speed. It may be that He wants to take us on the scenic route which will bring great growth to all, instead of the lifeless shortcut that is obvious to us.
In this way we risk becoming the dog who dropped the bone while attempting to get the other bone and ended up with nothing.

Life is a chess game orchestrated by the Creator of the universe and we are His servant/pawns.
The temptation is to make it a checkers game in which we "know" what He wants and we are "helping" Him.
 
Re: alkirich

steve said:
But of course, whatever YHWH tells you to do, do it promptly!
I could not agree with you more!

But here are the hard questions:
1) What EXACTLY does He tell you to do?

2) What is His timing?

Life is a chess game orchestrated by the Creator of the universe and we are His servant/pawns.
The temptation is to make it a checkers game in which we "know" what He wants and we are "helping" Him.
Click to expand...

Amen to all that, sir.

God's nature is love? And we shall pray in His name (according to His nature or character)? So we pray about our desires in His name?

The issue of an unbelieving wife has crossed my mind several times in the past and I am guilty of trying to find a scriptural justification that can be used as an excuse "to follow His will"... but He always leads me to the same spot... His nature is love. And like what Steve said, whatever it is that we claim to have with God, it has to begin with our immediate families.

Or we are no different from those who claim to follow the will of God but really twist His words to serve their purpose.

Yeah, I know, that sound harsh and I have no right to think of other people that way. We have different paths but our goal is one and only one.

And NO, this is not easy for me. I am in pain for 3 years already. The path prepared for us is really very simple and plainly stated in His word but following it was not promised to be easy.

BTW, hello alkirich. :D
 
Re: alkirich

Hi everyone (again),

Thanks Andrew, it is love-not-force. I will eventually catch-up with terms.

In the last 6 - 7 months since I was rudely awoken to the fact that it is righteous to have many wives, I have visited a few websites and have come to realise that there is a huge gulf between the school of thought that will rather ram their decision through and a school of thought that practices love-not-force (I nearly typed hate again); I am in neither. I will sincerely want to settle ONLY for what the Lord wants as a practice, whether I eventually practice poly or not.

@steve thanks for your two points. I will leave the chess/checkers analogy for now (needless to say that I will not describe His ways like that for "as many as are led by the spirit are the sons of God" and "my sheep knows my voice...." etc etc.

1) What EXACTLY does He tell you to do?
Probably that someone will be your second wife. Remember that Abraham invoked the ministry of angels in search for a wife for Isaac (Gen 24:7). Is that applicable only for the first wife? Surely not as it is a righteous thing to find a wife (prov18:22 "Whosoever finds a wife finds a good thing, and obtains favor of the LORD.").

2) What is His timing?
Surely HIS timing should be up, entirely, to him. It should not be dependent on how long it takes someone else to come round to the idea.

I am new to this fact. Chances are that some of my views are the exuberance of someone that have found something new. My worry though is that, I hope that we are not looking for a sweet middle ground, in obedience to the Lord, when we preach love-not-force.


@pebble. On love. My understanding of his love is not ROMANtic; it is righteous. In 2Samuel 6:23 (Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child unto the day of her death.), Michal remained barren, I believe, in response to the pronouncement of her husband. Is it harsh? Yes. Is it righteous? Yes.

I don't believe in bullying and ramming issues through. I am only asking the question: "is it likely that, should homes be run, absolutely according to the will of God. that many of our wives(including those already in plural marriage) will be rudely shaken to follow the Lord absolutely? It might not be palatable, but could it be true. Is it likely that we are looking for terminologies to explain the fact that we are gingerly venturing into spheres that the rest of the society(nay the church) will consider apostate? Is it likely, just likely, that love-not-force(I initially typed hate AGAIN) is our response to mitigating a potential accusation of spousal abuse by the rest of the society?


@pebble, what if a harsh decision is reached according to the will of the Lord, without twisting the word to suit our purpose. Will that be unrighteous?
You said:
" whatever it is that we claim to have with God, it has to begin with our immediate families. "
Luke 14:33(So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple." Should a wife not forsake all comfort to please the Lord?



Remember, Jesus expressly states that you might have to go against a wife, "for HIS NAME 's sake" Matt 19:29. Not being PATHETICAL, as @steve suggested, but seeking to know his will, according to His word.
 
Re: alkirich

I'll bite.

aklirich, you're asking good questions. (BTW, everyone, he entered his name as aklirich. Looks like steve started this thread with the typo alkirich and it's sticking, but we might want to all transition over to aklirich. Steve, if you want to edit your initial post it might help everybody make the switch.)

I think for some people, some of the time, you might have a point. There may be a sense in which some folks are reluctant to kick Jezebel in the teeth and set her off, so the nicest, most diplomatic way we can put this could maybe, squinting, if the light's just right, be characterized as a little bit chicken. A compromise with a godless culture. A failure to stand for the truth in the cold, maybe even brutal, terms that Jesus could use when he wanted to. And yes, Jesus talked about leaving your wife for his sake—"it's in the bible".

I can tell you, though, from my experience and from my experiences with the people here, that nobody counseling you here is afraid of our culture. When the the time comes for you to take a stand for God, you'll have plenty of opposition whether your wife leaves you or not, in many cases more so if she sticks around (serial monogamy is acceptable to all but a few hard-core anti-divorce types, polygamy is not).

steve nailed it above. Of course if you are sure of God's call you should obey. Now, how sure are you of the call? And more particularly, how sure are you of the timing of the fulfillment?

Consider Abraham, who was promised a son, and the disastrous effects of his and his wife's attempt to 'make something happen'. Don't be that guy.

If there is no one on your radar, you don't need to be looking—you need to be addressing the obedience and trust issues with your wife that are being revealed at this time. If God intends for you to be polygamous, he'll get you there. But first you have to be a certain kind of husband....
 
Re: alkirich

This kind of reminds me of something that I've seen floating around Facebook for the last couple of days. The Sun ask his dad what kind of woman should I try to find. Dad says don't try to look for the right kind of woman try to be the right kind of man. Or something like that anyway.
 
Re: alkirich

No you're fine. Andrew said it well enough. I'm on the road and should have just stayed out of it. Ignore me. :)
 
Re: alkirich

@Andrew: Akli Richmond or alkirich. What is a typo between friends.

When you said you will bite, I was expecting much much much more than I got. Phew...


In all that you said, I cannot agree with you more.

I am not looking. The disobedience and the scorn( I won't call it trust as I KNOW that deep down, she knows that I will never stoop so low) was a shock. Hey, I am trying to leave my issues out of the discussion and discuss principles.

On the substance of the matter, should David have had a meeting with his wives, having killed Urriah, on the possibility of taking responsibility for Beersheba's upkeep and....everything else? What if, say, Michal says NO and NO and NO ?

What, really, does it mean for our women to submit to their husbands, as unto the Lord? AS UNTO THE LORD it says. AS you would have submitted to Yeshuah !! I once told a woman that her disobedience to her husband, which was there for all to see in the church, is a sin punishable by hell fire and , needless to say that, I was lampooned for saying that.

I have been eavesdropping on this site for upwards of six months. There are questions I will like to ask but I am afraid I might blot everything out at once, confusing everyone; come across as someone that will rather force their will on their wife or upset the gentility of discussions on here.

So, I am not raising hypotheticals; I am really keen to know what the LORD would have wanted done.
 
Re: alkirich

I'll take another shot, because I got it, and NetWatchR, that's actually exactly where my mind was when I tapered off.

Example 1: Twenty years ago, I was a small, independent musician/producer at South By Southwest, a big conference in Austin. A producer there told a room full of young wannabes that if they were having to shop their material to record labels, they were doing it wrong. Record labels pay (or used to pay) huge staffs of "A&R" people to go out and find the 'next big thing'. If you're not playing so many shows a year that bring in an average of so many listeners, with a mailing list of so many fans, etc., etc., you're just not ready for a label deal. Get back to work and get better at what you do. Be the kind of band the labels are looking for. It improves your negotiating power by improving your position.

Example 2: A teenaged boy doesn't need to be focused on finding a girlfriend, let alone a mate. He needs to be figuring out who he is and what he's going to spend the rest of his life doing, and developing the skills that will make him a desirable mate based on markers of success in the adult world, not based on markers of 'success' in the artificial youth culture of high school and college. Be the kind of man that good women who are also successful in their own right want to be married to. (This is what I believe NetWatchR was getting at.)

Relevance to this conversation: You don't need to go looking for a second wife. You need to be the kind of man a woman would want to be the second wife of. And the number one marker of success in a poly family is how well you take care of your first wife.

And if your intended second wife is aware that your effort to 'heed God's call into polygamy' is driving away your first wife and that doesn't freak her out and cause her to pull back, then she doesn't get it and your situation probably isn't about polygamy at all.

Does that help any? I'm not asking here if you agree with my pov. I'm asking if that helps unpack what NetWatchR was saying. (And NetWatchR, please correct me if I missed it.)
 
Re: alkirich

Oops. Looks like we cross-posted, and now I'm late for a lunch. I'll get back with you after lunch, but again, you are asking good questions that deserve good answers, and I have something for you that I think will help. More later.
 
alkirich

Andrew says, "And if your intended second wife is aware that your effort to 'heed God's call into polygamy' is driving away your first wife and that doesn't freak her out and cause her to pull back, then she doesn't get it and your situation probably isn't about polygamy at all."

Are you saying it's good if prospective wife #2 is freaked out by the current disagreement with wife #1?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top