I have so many complaints about people that I owe so much to.
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Ambition/Desire
- Thread starter Slumberfreeze
- Start date
I have so many complaints about people that I owe so much to.
Slumberfreeze, just so you know I never "felt" judged by you, the judge at your own risk comment was meant to be taken as a more general statement of my own ignorance (I have no defence of myself, only my faith that I am within his will). I imagine some of the judgments against me will stand, and that some will not, and ultimately God paid for me so he owns me and will come after me if I stray (I really don't think/feel I have a choice in this).
I'm probably a bit on the defensive side because I feel I'm psychologically preparing for the whiplash effect that will come from my family when I begin to try to teach them these news truths. The main attack will definitely be the emotional guilting tactic. I grew up in culture where the women rule the roost, and there are a lot of em. Our immediate culture could honestly be described as christian and matriarchal. I mean my mother and my aunts and the women in general run things there (strong opinionated women are valued). Its always been that way and I don't see it changing. Generally the women are all more educated too. I am going to have to be hard and determined about this, and stand firm on actual law, because of the inevitable guilt attacks that will ensue, and really socially the deck is stacked hardcore against me.
Now I'm all grown up a more then a decade out on my own and I've learned some things. I am trying to find a balance in all these things, but keep in mind I am swinging from a deeply ingrained generally emasculating worldview to finally a sense of empowerment (and a far deeper sense of responsibility before him).
Consider this point about why I spoke so confidently about said pursuits. In a society where polygyny was more commonly practiced and morally acceptable (the society we believe God intended), there would be NO reason to feel moral guilt of any kind in regards to wanting / seeking / making it happen in a biblically outstanding way. In a society where a main measure of a man is in his ability to yield, produce, enjoy, and love Godly family is considered morally outstanding the pursuit of such things is for God's Glory. This is the stance I am taking.
Keep in mind I live with this, a thing I have learned in life, and my whole being continues to be blown by the vastness of it, is my need for the grace of God in through all things. I am seeking to hold onto him through all of this. I will have no idols before him. He is the one, after all, that gave this absolutely brilliant social law that society has all but discarded. It's an altogether beautiful thing.
I'll leave you with this. If this seed has indeed fallen among the weeds (am I judge? I live by faith), then let it be said that I strangled out a multitude of those wannabe trees as I confidently and vehemently sent roots deep and limbs high in seeking the sources of my life: water and light. The fruition belongs to Yahweh, what have I to do but work and seek in faith?
I'm probably a bit on the defensive side because I feel I'm psychologically preparing for the whiplash effect that will come from my family when I begin to try to teach them these news truths. The main attack will definitely be the emotional guilting tactic. I grew up in culture where the women rule the roost, and there are a lot of em. Our immediate culture could honestly be described as christian and matriarchal. I mean my mother and my aunts and the women in general run things there (strong opinionated women are valued). Its always been that way and I don't see it changing. Generally the women are all more educated too. I am going to have to be hard and determined about this, and stand firm on actual law, because of the inevitable guilt attacks that will ensue, and really socially the deck is stacked hardcore against me.
Now I'm all grown up a more then a decade out on my own and I've learned some things. I am trying to find a balance in all these things, but keep in mind I am swinging from a deeply ingrained generally emasculating worldview to finally a sense of empowerment (and a far deeper sense of responsibility before him).
Consider this point about why I spoke so confidently about said pursuits. In a society where polygyny was more commonly practiced and morally acceptable (the society we believe God intended), there would be NO reason to feel moral guilt of any kind in regards to wanting / seeking / making it happen in a biblically outstanding way. In a society where a main measure of a man is in his ability to yield, produce, enjoy, and love Godly family is considered morally outstanding the pursuit of such things is for God's Glory. This is the stance I am taking.
Keep in mind I live with this, a thing I have learned in life, and my whole being continues to be blown by the vastness of it, is my need for the grace of God in through all things. I am seeking to hold onto him through all of this. I will have no idols before him. He is the one, after all, that gave this absolutely brilliant social law that society has all but discarded. It's an altogether beautiful thing.
I'll leave you with this. If this seed has indeed fallen among the weeds (am I judge? I live by faith), then let it be said that I strangled out a multitude of those wannabe trees as I confidently and vehemently sent roots deep and limbs high in seeking the sources of my life: water and light. The fruition belongs to Yahweh, what have I to do but work and seek in faith?
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Fair enough! You know you, and you have to walk a road that I don't have to. (My family is quite different) . My primary aim in this thread is to point out the nature of desire and caution against pursuing our pleasures in favor of pursuing the Kingdom. If you are fruitful in the kingdom, then you have clearly not been choked out; in which case I have nothing constructive to add here but my sincere hopes that you will continue to live a blessed life.
I have no idea what you're saying here.
I think he means that he owes a great debt to the translators and scholars that allow us to study the word so handily and make it readily available to the masses, but we have a lot to complain about with the specifics of the job that's been done by them.
That is exactly what I was saying. Thank you UG!
That makes sense internally, but as it's related to what I said, I'm not getting it, so let me clarify....
I'm not complaining about the translations or the translators (hence my puzzlement). I'm not complaining about anything or anyone. I'm only referencing the truism that languages evolve over centuries, and we have to take that into account when we're communicating with each other. "Covet" and "lust" aren't used today the way they were 400 years ago. Ain't nobody's fault, it's just a thang....
I'm not complaining about the translations or the translators (hence my puzzlement). I'm not complaining about anything or anyone. I'm only referencing the truism that languages evolve over centuries, and we have to take that into account when we're communicating with each other. "Covet" and "lust" aren't used today the way they were 400 years ago. Ain't nobody's fault, it's just a thang....
Oh yeah no I didn't think you were. I was more like quipping rather than responding.
The standard I try to stick to is to find a good modern word that currently means the same thing as the (usually greek) definition as it was used in scripture. So for most of the 'desire' words, I would prefer not to use covet or lust at all, for just that reason.
My main gripe with those worthy translators is inconsistent translations. If they had used covet in every case for a given word, the both the word 'covet' and the original word from which it came would not be easily confused, as it would be consistently translated. My go to example is "pastor" and "shepherd". Pastor occurs one time in my bible, and shepherd like a million. Same word, but at one point they choose to translate it as pastor instead of shepherd, which eventually disassociated the church office from it's context of the vocation of a shepherd. As a city boy, I had to be told that the two were synonymous and as a young man I had to discover that they literally were translated from the same word. I was angry at this choice because I felt like my understanding of doctrine in this matter had been held back by an arbitrary decision. It's probably not as simple as that, but those were my feelings nonetheless.
The standard I try to stick to is to find a good modern word that currently means the same thing as the (usually greek) definition as it was used in scripture. So for most of the 'desire' words, I would prefer not to use covet or lust at all, for just that reason.
My main gripe with those worthy translators is inconsistent translations. If they had used covet in every case for a given word, the both the word 'covet' and the original word from which it came would not be easily confused, as it would be consistently translated. My go to example is "pastor" and "shepherd". Pastor occurs one time in my bible, and shepherd like a million. Same word, but at one point they choose to translate it as pastor instead of shepherd, which eventually disassociated the church office from it's context of the vocation of a shepherd. As a city boy, I had to be told that the two were synonymous and as a young man I had to discover that they literally were translated from the same word. I was angry at this choice because I felt like my understanding of doctrine in this matter had been held back by an arbitrary decision. It's probably not as simple as that, but those were my feelings nonetheless.
Spot on. "Pastor" is just a transliterated Latin word for "shepherd". We didn't need it, and the English would be more true to the original Greek if we just used "shepherd" instead.
Same for deacon/servant, church/assembly, and apostle/messenger, just to name a few. All became fancy church words as transliterations of Latin or Greek, instead of just translating into English. Too lowbrow for those high churchmen's taste, I suppose....
Same for deacon/servant, church/assembly, and apostle/messenger, just to name a few. All became fancy church words as transliterations of Latin or Greek, instead of just translating into English. Too lowbrow for those high churchmen's taste, I suppose....
Yes, it is very frustrating to look up one word in English and find five different Hebrew and Greek originals, and then look at each of those and find that each is only translated into that English word part of the time and often translated into other things - a small study can become a large undertaking very quickly. I wish I had the time to sit down and learn to just read Hebrew and Greek.
One fascinating reference is the currently incomplete "Mechanical Translation" of the Hebrew. Genesis is finished and can be downloaded for free, various other resources are available for purchase. This takes the original Hebrew, consistently assigns a definition to each word, then mechanically translates it, by computer, into English, completely consistently. The result is almost unreadable due to word order, so the author then revises it by adjusting to a more natural English word order, and gives the reader the original Hebrew, the raw mechanical translation, and the revised readable version, all side-by-side. It is an extremely interesting read.
One fascinating reference is the currently incomplete "Mechanical Translation" of the Hebrew. Genesis is finished and can be downloaded for free, various other resources are available for purchase. This takes the original Hebrew, consistently assigns a definition to each word, then mechanically translates it, by computer, into English, completely consistently. The result is almost unreadable due to word order, so the author then revises it by adjusting to a more natural English word order, and gives the reader the original Hebrew, the raw mechanical translation, and the revised readable version, all side-by-side. It is an extremely interesting read.
I'll have to take a look at that, sounds really useful
Sounds neat, but again I have to trust that a) the revision for readability doesn't change intent and b) the "consistent" definition is accurate.
Which makes it, just like all translations, something to read with your brain switched on... The mechanical translation is very thought-provoking, the revision for readability is imperfect (for instance it states that Abraham put Ishmael on Hagar's shoulder when he sent them away, which makes no sense since he was a teenager, it should state that he put a waterskin on her shoulder...) but good to skim down reading quickly to find which verses are interesting enough to delve into the mechanical translation for.
My go-to example is "thou shalt not kill". That's not what it says. The word used is Ratsach (H7523), which means murder, not kill. The King James sees fit to translate no less than 4 different Hebrew words into "kill". However, each Hebrew word has specific connotations and adds context to the scriptures they inhabit. I'd love to go through some day and "edit" my Bible.
- Muwth (H4191), To be put to death (as a punishment)
- Nakah (H5221), Generic act of killing (I ran over a squirrel and killed it)
- Schachat (H7819), Slaughter (as one would an animal to prepare to eat or to obliterate an entire people)
- Ratsach (H7523), Murder (premeditated, assassinate)
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