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Baptism of the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues

I had an interesting encounter involving this same topic with a brother I got speaking to a few days ago passing in a train station.

Before I even state my position in this, I encourage you all to watch the history of religion series by thoughts camera action. The doctrine you state is a doctrine that is less than 150 years old.

Watch the videos dealing with the Pentecostal movement.


The baptism of the holy spirit is real
The infilling of the holy spirit is real
Speaking in tongues is real
ALL the gifts of the Holy spirit are real.

HOWEVER

There is another YaHoshuWaH
There is another spirit
There is another gospel

Is anyone on here able to discern the difference?

yet even with this discussion there is an even more pressing issue than spiritual gifts.
The framing of this discussion by most is around the gifts. But my focus is the filling/indwelling of the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues. I am not speaking of the gifts when I say this. And I reiterate that.

Salvation is the most pressing issue. This is why I care.

Rather than go deep into discussing the Pentecostal movement, I'll just say that I've looked into it and understand it as a revival movement refocusing people on the importance of receiving the Holy Spirit. The doctrine is not recent, its only recently dug up and revived, specifically by the Pentecostals.

I watch Thoughts Camera Action occasionally. Tend to enjoy his videos, but I dont look to him for doctrine. When I watch I'm looking for some of the things he uncovers and the connections he makes as far as conspiracies of religion in plain sight.

There is definitely another spirit and another gospel. There are false tongues. There's a counterfeit Holy Spirit. I'm not gonna pretend a higher level of discernment than I have though. Depending on what I see and hear I may be skeptical, but I like to remain very reserved in making a judgment in matters such as this, because Yahshua said don't blaspheme the Holy Spirit. So I want to be very careful not to attribute the work of the Holy Spirit to be that of demons. I do not take that lightly. Yet and still, there are certainly counterfeits and falsehoods masquerading as the Spirit. I'll leave it there.

Shalom
 
1 Corinthians 14 talks a lot about the use of tongues. It does NOT talk about two distinct types of tongues - that is a distinction that you have overlaid onto the chapter - it is eisegesis. There is nothing actually in the wording itself to say anything other than "these are guidelines around how to use the gift of tongues".

I doubt anybody is convinced you have this gift. I understand you believe you speak in tongues, and am not disputing that. I am discussing tongues in general terms without passing any judgement on what gifts you personally may or may not have - I do not know you well enough to say anything about that.

And this is a point you need to pay far more attention to. If you are correct @bro. Dexter for YAH, then essentially nobody in the church from the second to 19th centuries had the Holy Spirit indwelling in them. Jesus' promise to send a comforter was left unfulfilled for the vast majority of the history of the church. And nobody who we respect from that period was acting through the Spirit, only through their own strength. Would God truly leave His church without the Holy Spirit for the vast majority of its history? That alone should cause you to seriously question what you have been taught.
If any of you truly believe I speak in tongues, then according to your doctrine it necessarily means I have the gift of diverse tongues. According to what I believe, it does not.

I dont place much value on the "church" as an institution. The true body, however, I do. Whether they're in a "church" or not. My position is not asserting that Jesus' promise went unfulfilled. There is only a remnant, keep this in mind. The church is much larger than that and the Word says few there be that will find their way into the strait gate because the path is narrow.

I probably don't respect the same figures that you do from the 2nd century to now. I'm not a fan of the "church fathers" nor many of the scholars and theologians that religion generally places high value on and trust in.

I'll say this: I believe that people who Yah has his hand on can act through the Spirit prior to being filled with the indwelling, because the Spirit is present in their life and is at work. Why am I so sure? Jesus spent the majority of his life without the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. He was filled when his cousin John baptized him. Yet that whole life prior to this point he DID NOT SIN. So the Spirit was there all along. Yet when he was filled, that's an entirely new level of the manifestation of the Spirit and the power.
 
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I've posted this before, but it's very relevant:
View attachment 5722
The funny thing about this is I'm not a Christian, I'm an Israelite. Ancient Israel is not a new movement. Abraham, Isaac, Jacob = Israel. 12 sons, 12 tribes. And before that we came thru the line of Noah and Shem. Before that, Enoch. And you can take it as far back as you like. The faith started with a family. Who Yah chose to carry out His will because He found men of faith who were obedient to His commands. So my beliefs have nothing to do with modern movements and modern religion.

Shalom
 
Why not change the discussion a bit and ask brothers and sisters about their personal Holy Spirit gifting? Not in the way of bragging but in giving God the glory? I'll go first- Sometimes I will just blurt out a truth to someone, unplanned and unrehearsed and it proves to be true and edifying. I praise God in that moment and so does the brother. Sometimes the opposite is true and I check my tongue(not always though- I mess up too).

Go!
 
My meaning in posing this discussion is not to attack. But it is most certainly to challenge. Somebody is right and somebody is wrong. I am not the one who makes the final judgment. I can only proceed based off the understanding that Yah has given me and what Yah has revealed. My present understanding and position is a result of challenging what I had been taught and what I'd grown up to believe. Even as an adult when I stepped away from the church into the faith, these beliefs about the Holy Spirit and speaking in tongues were not the beliefs that I held at that time. And when my past understanding was challenged, I sought the Father with my whole heart because I desired to be filled with his Spirit. And he granted me that desire because he keeps his promises. But it was not without struggle or without doubt, or without difficulty. So I love him the more so because as they say, you value something more when you have to work hard to get it.

I love my brothers. I would not open up my mouth if I did not have a spirit of compassion for my brothers. What type of man would I be if I held onto what I know and I didn't uncover the light in my candle so it can shine? Nobody is drawn to me. Anybody who was drawn is drawn by the Spirit that is within me. And I will speak boldly, praying and hoping for the proper balance of humility so that the Message will reach the intended ears without me getting in the way. When the word goes forth it will always accomplish the purpose of Him that sent it. His will be done, blessed be His holy name.

Shalom
 
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Why not change the discussion a bit and ask brothers and sisters about their personal Holy Spirit gifting? Not in the way of bragging but in giving God the glory? I'll go first- Sometimes I will just blurt out a truth to someone, unplanned and unrehearsed and it proves to be true and edifying. I praise God in that moment and so does the brother. Sometimes the opposite is true and I check my tongue(not always though- I mess up too).

Go!
People sharing their experiences with their gifts is a beautiful thing, and I am never against that.

I did not start this particular discussion to talk about the gifts. That is the point here. The evidence of speaking in tongues is not about the gifts of the Spirit, its about the evidence and the initial confirmation of the filling and indwelling. Later evidence of fruits and gifts serve their purpose, but I am speaking of the INITIAL evidence only, specifically tongues. This has been wrangled away from that point because the general consensus here is that the position which I stand on is not supported by Scripture.

I've made the point that needed to be made, and if any receive and believe- all praises to the Most High. What else can I say? I understand where the majority stands, and I assume that most of you understand where I stand. We have a point of contention. But strife is not my objective. If what I'm saying doesn't resonate, Yah is the one who will sort it out ultimately.
 
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I stand by my original title because that is the exact point I'm here to make in its simplest form. Some believe it, some don't. But the point has been made.
 
The framing of this discussion by most is around the gifts. But my focus is the filling/indwelling of the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues. I am not speaking of the gifts when I say this. And I reiterate that.
Yes, that is what you say you are talking about. However, you have failed to give a single scripture that clearly shows that there is a separate "speaking in tongues" that is evidence of receiving the Spirit, separate to the gift of tongues. You assert that they are different, but you cannot find this difference stated in scripture - you can only find scriptures mentioning tongues which you personally attribute to one or the other type of tongues that you define yourself. Everyone else keeps "going back to the gift of tongues" as you put it simply because they are referring to actual scripture about tongues, and that is what scripture calls it. They're not changing the topic, they're discussing the same topic but grounding their words more firmly in scripture, while you are wandering into extraBiblical concepts.
The funny thing about this is I'm not a Christian, I'm an Israelite.
What do you mean by that statement? The word "Christian" is a label for followers of Yeshua HaMeshiach (Acts 11:26), and was used by both Peter and Paul in scripture (1 Peter 4:16, Acts 26:28), so was in first-century use and applied to themselves by both the Jew and Gentile branches of his followers - and most clearly by Peter himself.

So, when you say you're not a Christian, do you mean:
1) You are not a follower of Yeshua, or
2) You are a follower of Yeshua, but have a philosophical disagreement with using the name Peter applied to followers of Yeshua?
Ancient Israel is not a new movement.
But everyone sees themselves as representing the same ancient movement, and most denominations are genuinely trying to get back to what they see as the simple, original teachings of God. However, everybody believes different things about what those original teachings are. You have your own niche views - Torah-keeping combined with Pentecostalism. I have not run across this particular combination before, it's interesting. But just because you use the word "Israel" does not mean you've got it right. Most other people who apply the word "Israel" to themselves would likely disagree with you, and think instead they are the real representatives of ancient Israel. I mean even the British Israelites use the same name - are they right?

Although we all try to get back to God's original teaching, in reality we branch into new understandings of what that teaching was, as in the cartoon I posted. Maybe someone has it perfectly right, but we can't work out who, because everybody thinks a different branch is that right one.

And you can't magically make your theology correct by changing the name of what you call yourself.
 
Acts 2 addresses an understanding of the Gift of Tongues as xenoglossy.

5 Now there were staying in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven.
6 When they heard this sound, a crowd came together in bewilderment, because each one heard their own language being spoken.
7 Utterly amazed, they asked: “Aren’t all these who are speaking Galileans?
8 Then how is it that each of us hears them in our native language?
9 Parthians, Medes and Elamites; residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia
10 Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya near Cyrene; visitors from Rome
11 (both Jews and converts to Judaism); Cretans and Arabs—we hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!”
12 Amazed and perplexed, they asked one another, “What does this mean?”


The gift manifested as language understandable by foreigners who did not expect unlearned and rural people in Galilee to be fluently speaking languages and dialects from far off and distant lands.

This would be a miracle that would be immediately appreciated by non-believers.

Pardon me if I am not subscribing to the notion of someone's personal prayer language as having any kind of authority.

However, I do remain open to the notion predicated on straightforward evidence such as:

1. The message ends up being a verifiable, specific, and accurate prophecy.
2. The message conveys information that is only known to myself.

Then I'd be convinced.
 
@bro. Dexter for YAH, on consideration I realise that you are correct in distinguishing prayer tongues from the gift of tongues. They are very different.

The word "tongues" truly does mean "languages" (well, it means literal physical tongues that you lick with, but it is used in Greek to mean languages). A language is complicated. It has multiple words, grammar, structure - when you hear someone talking in a language, even if you don't understand the language, it is very obvious that somebody is speaking a real language. While when you hear someone simply making repetitive sounds, it's obvious they are not speaking a real language.

Importantly, it is possible to derive considerable depth of spiritual feeling from saying repetitive, meaningless sounds - that is what a mantra is in eastern meditation. It focuses the mind. Some Christians also meditate using mantras, which is a controversial practice that I'm not advocating, but it is not prohibited in scripture. A common mantra in Christian meditation is "maranathra", an ancient Aramaic word meaning "Lord, come" that has been used as a blessing & in prayer by Christians since the first century, and that happens to have a rhythm that makes it easy to focus on to exclude other thoughts. Being not a word we actually use in common speech it naturally resolves itself into a series of meaningless sounds that allows you to focus on nothing and leave any actual communication to the Holy Spirit, rather than being something where you focus on the meaning of the word itself.

"Tongues" as a prayer language tends in practice to be similarly repetitive sounds that help the practitioner achieve an attitude of prayerfulness. If you hear someone "praying in tongues", they usually repeat the same set of sounds over and over, varying the order and occasionally saying something different but always returning to a very limited set of repeated sounds. This is near-identical to someone meditating by repeating a mantra.

Meditation to a mantra is a spiritual practice that truly does give a feeling of deep communication with God. Which means that just because you feel deep communication with God does not mean that you're speaking in tongues, there may be another explanation that has far more historical basis. Remember that "meaningless tongues as a prayer language" only really appeared in the last 150 years (as far as we know), but meditation to mantras is ancient and appears in basically all religious traditions in one form or another. It is worth considering that this may simply be a misapplied name for an ancient practice that has nothing to do with the gift of tongues.

People often say it took them a lot of time to be able to speak in tongues. That also is like how it takes a lot of time for someone to develop the ability to meditate without distraction. In scripture, tongues was not something people had to work on - one minute they were talking normally and the next they were speaking a whole new language. This is another indication that prayer tongues may have more in common with meditation than with scriptural tongues.

I think if we understand "prayer tongues" to be a form of meditation (whether or not they are named correctly), we will not mix it up with the gift of tongues. But this also means it is not evidence of receiving the Holy Spirit.
 
Just a thought that comes to mind here regarding prayer; read the Psalms, the prayers people are recorded saying, and especially the prayers of our Lord Jesus Christ. How many repetitive incoherent words are recorded being said? Shalom
 
Yes, that is what you say you are talking about. However, you have failed to give a single scripture that clearly shows that there is a separate "speaking in tongues" that is evidence of receiving the Spirit, separate to the gift of tongues. You assert that they are different, but you cannot find this difference stated in scripture - you can only find scriptures mentioning tongues which you personally attribute to one or the other type of tongues that you define yourself. Everyone else keeps "going back to the gift of tongues" as you put it simply because they are referring to actual scripture about tongues, and that is what scripture calls it. They're not changing the topic, they're discussing the same topic but grounding their words more firmly in scripture, while you are wandering into extraBiblical concepts.

What do you mean by that statement? The word "Christian" is a label for followers of Yeshua HaMeshiach (Acts 11:26), and was used by both Peter and Paul in scripture (1 Peter 4:16, Acts 26:28), so was in first-century use and applied to themselves by both the Jew and Gentile branches of his followers - and most clearly by Peter himself.

So, when you say you're not a Christian, do you mean:
1) You are not a follower of Yeshua, or
2) You are a follower of Yeshua, but have a philosophical disagreement with using the name Peter applied to followers of Yeshua?

But everyone sees themselves as representing the same ancient movement, and most denominations are genuinely trying to get back to what they see as the simple, original teachings of God. However, everybody believes different things about what those original teachings are. You have your own niche views - Torah-keeping combined with Pentecostalism. I have not run across this particular combination before, it's interesting. But just because you use the word "Israel" does not mean you've got it right. Most other people who apply the word "Israel" to themselves would likely disagree with you, and think instead they are the real representatives of ancient Israel. I mean even the British Israelites use the same name - are they right?

Although we all try to get back to God's original teaching, in reality we branch into new understandings of what that teaching was, as in the cartoon I posted. Maybe someone has it perfectly right, but we can't work out who, because everybody thinks a different branch is that right one.

And you can't magically make your theology correct by changing the name of what you call yourself.
The word "Christian" as its used today is not the same concept as the biblical historical usage. Biblical use is the definition you stated- a disciple of Messiah Yahshua. But the modern use of "Christian" is too closely tied with the religion of "Christianity", which absolutely did not exist at the time of Jesus or Paul or at any time whatsoever in the "New testament" writings or prior. I choose not to associate myself with a title that isn't purely connected to Messiah the way the historical designation was prior to the formation of "Christianity" as a religion. The word "Christian" in the modern context was carefully co-opted to simultaneously mean "a person who is a member/follower of the religion of Christianity" AND "a follower of Christ".

This is a minor distinction for someone who identifies as a "Christian" but not for me.

Yah is good. However my beliefs are understood or categorized, I thank Yah for the blood and for His Spirit.

Shalom
 
@bro. Dexter for YAH, on consideration I realise that you are correct in distinguishing prayer tongues from the gift of tongues. They are very different.

The word "tongues" truly does mean "languages" (well, it means literal physical tongues that you lick with, but it is used in Greek to mean languages). A language is complicated. It has multiple words, grammar, structure - when you hear someone talking in a language, even if you don't understand the language, it is very obvious that somebody is speaking a real language. While when you hear someone simply making repetitive sounds, it's obvious they are not speaking a real language.

Importantly, it is possible to derive considerable depth of spiritual feeling from saying repetitive, meaningless sounds - that is what a mantra is in eastern meditation. It focuses the mind. Some Christians also meditate using mantras, which is a controversial practice that I'm not advocating, but it is not prohibited in scripture. A common mantra in Christian meditation is "maranathra", an ancient Aramaic word meaning "Lord, come" that has been used as a blessing & in prayer by Christians since the first century, and that happens to have a rhythm that makes it easy to focus on to exclude other thoughts. Being not a word we actually use in common speech it naturally resolves itself into a series of meaningless sounds that allows you to focus on nothing and leave any actual communication to the Holy Spirit, rather than being something where you focus on the meaning of the word itself.

"Tongues" as a prayer language tends in practice to be similarly repetitive sounds that help the practitioner achieve an attitude of prayerfulness. If you hear someone "praying in tongues", they usually repeat the same set of sounds over and over, varying the order and occasionally saying something different but always returning to a very limited set of repeated sounds. This is near-identical to someone meditating by repeating a mantra.

Meditation to a mantra is a spiritual practice that truly does give a feeling of deep communication with God. Which means that just because you feel deep communication with God does not mean that you're speaking in tongues, there may be another explanation that has far more historical basis. Remember that "meaningless tongues as a prayer language" only really appeared in the last 150 years (as far as we know), but meditation to mantras is ancient and appears in basically all religious traditions in one form or another. It is worth considering that this may simply be a misapplied name for an ancient practice that has nothing to do with the gift of tongues.

People often say it took them a lot of time to be able to speak in tongues. That also is like how it takes a lot of time for someone to develop the ability to meditate without distraction. In scripture, tongues was not something people had to work on - one minute they were talking normally and the next they were speaking a whole new language. This is another indication that prayer tongues may have more in common with meditation than with scriptural tongues.

I think if we understand "prayer tongues" to be a form of meditation (whether or not they are named correctly), we will not mix it up with the gift of tongues. But this also means it is not evidence of receiving the Holy Spirit.
Mantras and meditation are a very elaborate way to say you don't believe. All of that amounts to philosophy and vain deceit, after the rudiments of the world and not after Christ. Since what you explained is a worldly religious practice, not a biblical one. Giving attribution to anything except the Holy Spirit.

Anything to explain a phenomena (prayer tongues) that you claim is not biblical and that you have not experienced.

So be it. Shalom
 
Jesus said, "And when you pray, do not use vain repetitions as the heathen do. For they think that they will be heard for their many words" (Matt. 6:7). Shalom


Lyrics:

This is how I fight my battles
(There's a table)
This is how I fight my battles
This is how I fight my battles
This is how I fight my battles
This is how I fight my battles
This is how I fight my battles
This is how I fight my battles

It may look like I'm surrounded, but I'm surrounded by You
It may look like I'm surrounded, but I'm surrounded by You
It may look like I'm surrounded, but I'm surrounded by You
It may look like I'm surrounded, but I'm surrounded by You

This is how I fight my battles
This is how I fight my battles
This is how I fight my battles
This is how I fight my battles
This is how I fight my battles
This is how I fight my battles
This is how I fight my battles

At Your table

It may look like I'm surrounded, but I'm surrounded by You
It may look like I'm surrounded, but I'm surrounded by You
It may look like I'm surrounded, but I'm surrounded by You
It may look like I'm surrounded, but I'm surrounded by You

This is how I fight my battles
This is how I fight my battles
This is how I fight my battles

This is how I

This is how I fight my battles
This is how I fight my battles
This is how I fight my battles

It may look like

It may look like I'm surrounded, but I'm surrounded by You
It may look like I'm surrounded, but I'm surrounded by You
It may look like I'm surrounded, but I'm surrounded by You
It may look like I'm surrounded, but I'm surrounded by You

Nothing is as strong as Your blood
Nothing is as strong as Your blood
Nothing is as strong as Your blood
Nothing is as strong as Your blood

This is how I fight my battles
Right here at Your table

Your blood and Your body has overcome
Your blood and Your body has overcome

It may look like I'm surrounded, but I'm surrounded by You
It may look like I'm surrounded, but I'm surrounded by You
It may look like I'm surrounded, but I'm surrounded by You
It may look like I'm surrounded, but I'm surrounded by You

This is how I fight my battles
This is how I fight my battles
This is how I fight my battles

This is how

This is how we fight our battles
This is how we fight our battles

You've already overcome
You have already overcome
You have already overcome

Oh, this is how I fight my battles
This is how I fight my battles
Grace, grace, grace
This is how I fight my battles
Oh, this is how I fight my battles
Grace

It may look like I'm surrounded, but I'm surrounded by You
It may look like I'm surrounded
 
Mantras and meditation are a very elaborate way to say you don't believe. All of that amounts to philosophy and vain deceit, after the rudiments of the world and not after Christ. Since what you explained is a worldly religious practice, not a biblical one. Giving attribution to anything except the Holy Spirit.

Anything to explain a phenomena (prayer tongues) that you claim is not biblical and that you have not experienced.

So be it. Shalom
You have taken what I said negatively when it was not intended that way. I only know about Christian meditation because of a discussion similar to this one, with a different man, who claimed it had changed his life and helped him to achieve the deep intercessory prayer of the Holy Spirit in a very similar way to what you have been describing, and offered to help me do the same in the same way that you have been offering to help me. In his case, he was elderly, and claimed this was the most helpful spiritual practice he had learned in his entire life - as I said he was very sincere. I had not joined the dots until just now, when I realised that the two of you were speaking almost identically and describing something very, very similar. This is not an accusation of pagan practice, it is joining the dots between Christian practices of different branches of the faith, and realising "hey, these people might actually be talking about the same thing". I do not consider either of you to be doing something evil, and in fact have tried both in the past myself to assess each practice.
 
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Lyrics:

This is how I fight my battles
(There's a table)
This is how I fight my battles
This is how I fight my battles
This is how I fight my battles
This is how I fight my battles
This is how I fight my battles
This is how I fight my battles

It may look like I'm surrounded, but I'm surrounded by You
It may look like I'm surrounded, but I'm surrounded by You
It may look like I'm surrounded, but I'm surrounded by You
It may look like I'm surrounded, but I'm surrounded by You

This is how I fight my battles
This is how I fight my battles
This is how I fight my battles
This is how I fight my battles
This is how I fight my battles
This is how I fight my battles
This is how I fight my battles

At Your table

It may look like I'm surrounded, but I'm surrounded by You
It may look like I'm surrounded, but I'm surrounded by You
It may look like I'm surrounded, but I'm surrounded by You
It may look like I'm surrounded, but I'm surrounded by You

This is how I fight my battles
This is how I fight my battles
This is how I fight my battles

This is how I

This is how I fight my battles
This is how I fight my battles
This is how I fight my battles

It may look like

It may look like I'm surrounded, but I'm surrounded by You
It may look like I'm surrounded, but I'm surrounded by You
It may look like I'm surrounded, but I'm surrounded by You
It may look like I'm surrounded, but I'm surrounded by You

Nothing is as strong as Your blood
Nothing is as strong as Your blood
Nothing is as strong as Your blood
Nothing is as strong as Your blood

This is how I fight my battles
Right here at Your table

Your blood and Your body has overcome
Your blood and Your body has overcome

It may look like I'm surrounded, but I'm surrounded by You
It may look like I'm surrounded, but I'm surrounded by You
It may look like I'm surrounded, but I'm surrounded by You
It may look like I'm surrounded, but I'm surrounded by You

This is how I fight my battles
This is how I fight my battles
This is how I fight my battles

This is how

This is how we fight our battles
This is how we fight our battles

You've already overcome
You have already overcome
You have already overcome

Oh, this is how I fight my battles
This is how I fight my battles
Grace, grace, grace
This is how I fight my battles
Oh, this is how I fight my battles
Grace

It may look like I'm surrounded, but I'm surrounded by You
It may look like I'm surrounded
I think this video just triggered my PTSD from my former life as a charismatic.
 
You have taken what I said negatively when it was not intended that way. I only know about Christian meditation because of a discussion similar to this one, with a different man, who claimed it had changed his life and helped him to achieve the deep intercessory prayer of the Holy Spirit in a very similar way to what you have been describing, and offered to help me do the same in the same way that you have been offering to help me. In his case, he was elderly, and claimed this was the most helpful spiritual practice he had learned in his entire life - as I said he was very sincere. I had not joined the dots until just now, when I realised that the two of you were speaking almost identically and describing something very, very similar. This is not an accusation of pagan practice, it is joining the dots between Christian practices of different branches of the faith, and realising "hey, these people might actually be talking about the same thing". I do not consider either of you to be doing something evil, and in fact have tried both in the past myself to assess each practice.
If I misunderstood, please forgive me. The only meditation I am comfortable with is meditating in His Word day and night. My exposure to meditation in any other sense have been practices far removed from the Most High. They are spiritual for sure. But they tap into other gods so I am very wary of them.
 
I am not expecting you to be comfortable with the following - most readers won't be - but hear me out as my purpose is not to promote anything, but show what is going on in a different branch of Christianity, so we can see the parallels.

Check out the World Community for Christian Meditation - https://wccm.org/

This organisation has sprung out of the Benedictine monastic tradition. The Benedictine order dates back to the 6th century, and is extremely ancient. Before dismissing this as Catholic, it is very important to note this was founded way before either the Great Schism or the Protestant Reformation, or the introduction of the heresies that now define Catholicism (e.g. those introduced at the Council of Trent). This means that at its founding it was truly a movement of the universal Church, and was very genuinely an attempt to draw closer to God and preserve His teaching in a fallen world. The Benedictine monks had a crucial role in maintaining the scriptures and other ancient literature that we have the benefit of reading today, we owe them a great debt even if we are unaware of them or disagree with their theology.

And the focus of the Benedictine order was always quiet contemplation of God. Other, later monastic orders were more focussed on outreach to the world (e.g. the Franciscans). The Benedictine order had a far greater focus on prayer.

Moving to the present day:
The roots of the WCCM lie in the desert tradition of early Christianity. John Main (1926-1982) recognised how the ‘pure prayer’, or ‘prayer of the heart’ that he found in this teaching could bring people in all walks of life to a deeper spirituality.

By passing on the desert wisdom in a contemporary way and, as a Benedictine monk, he helped to restore this lost dimension of prayer to the mainstream life of Christianity.

He opened the first Christian Meditation Centre at his monastery in London in 1975. The weekly groups that began there have multiplied in 63 countries in today’s WCCM. From the beginning of this movement he was joined by Laurence Freeman who succeeded him in 1982 and is the present director of WCCM.
Note the words I have highlighted - "pure prayer" and "prayer of the heart". This is exactly what praying in tongues is also about.

Now, theologically Catholicism is the exact antithesis of everything you stand for @bro. Dexter for YAH. And that makes the parallels on this even more interesting. This has been developed entirely independently of Pentecostalism - it has absolutely nothing to do with it. So the result obviously looks different and is described using very different language. Nevertheless, it is an attempt to achieve the exact same thing that Pentecostalism strives for through praying in tongues:
Romans 8:28 said:
Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words.
I was introduced to the WCCM by an elderly Catholic man who found that this meditative approach to prayer had completely changed his walk with God. He had always been a typical nominal Catholic who didn't attend church much. Through this he had grown his personal relationship with God, and still had little interest in attending mass but the focus of his faith was now on his personal relationship with Jesus. He still called himself a Catholic, and his understanding of theology came from that tradition, but as a result of meditative prayer his actual approach to Christianity - that it was about a personal relationship - was far more Protestant even though he did not describe it that way. This truly had borne positive fruit in his life, drawn him closer to God, and even drawn him closer to Protestantism.

Now, as I said at the start, I am not promoting the WCCM. I see some serious problems with them - they're too liberal, and too much into inter-religious dialogue. You'll find things you disagree with on their website for sure. But the same goes for many Pentecostal organisations that promote praying in tongues - many of those are too liberal, but that in itself does not invalidate praying in tongues. People's other views are beside the point.

What I find fascinating is the convergence from two so vastly different branches of Christianity onto a practice that has so many similarities, and which seems to bear similar fruit in the lives of those who practice it with pure intent to worship God alone. While having a similar potential for error and abuse also (you have mentioned false tongues, there is obviously false meditation also).
 
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