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Beef with the TULIP. Indictments against bad theology.

It would not be as big of an issue if if it was not systematically propagated. Most famous contemporary teachers have been Calvinists. An average Christian will have difficult time naming nonCalvinist preacher. Majority of evangelical radios will play Calvinists only. The only non Calvinist I know that had any prominence was Ravi Zachariah. And when his improprieties were revealed majority of Calvinists were quick to condemn him as not saved. (This may be subjective for me living in Chicago and Central Florida, your experiences may have been different)

It is however a problem if Calvinist brothers covertly against expressed wishes of congregation teach Calvinism.



 
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Transformator Reformator said:
When people come across Reformed theology I hope they will try exhaustively study the Bible to disprove it,
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No, never study the Bible to prove or disprove an idea or belief you already hold. Study the Bible to discover what God says. Otherwise your presuppositional bias will cloud your vision and lead to faulty interpretations, just as it does for the proponents of Monogamy-only relationships. Cheers
 
There is scripture that seems to indicate that a soul can “return” to Sheol. Also, in the book of revelation, it mentions the “rest of the dead” receiving another chance during Satan’s season of deception.

Something else to consider - John the Baptist was Elijah. He even dressed the same way, and I believe had a similar diet. However, John the Baptist did not know he was Elijah, because when someone asked him; he said I am not. However, Yahushua said he was Elijah.

So can the Almighty send a soul back on earth, but with its memory erased? Scripture seems to indicate this is the case. It’s not a very strong case, but I don’t think we are meant to understand everything. And that’s okay.
 
frederick said:
No, never study the Bible to prove or disprove an idea or belief you already hold. Study the Bible to discover what God says. Otherwise your presuppositional bias will cloud your vision and lead to faulty interpretations, just as it does for the proponents of Monogamy-only relationships. Cheers
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That is great statement and advice, but I will be amazed if someone arrived to TULIP without someone first implementing these ideas. TULIP confusion happens after a person becomes a Christian. I am yet to come across a person who reads John 3:16 and concludes that God loves only few people and he died for few. I do not even know what verses would lead me to conclude limited atonement.

Saint Augustine was product of 3 pagan philosophies/religions that led him to conclude some false things which John Calvin barrowed.

In the same way, Roman pagan world view influenced some early Christians preachers to see monogamy only in their reading of the Scripture.

I was saying about need to disprove TULIP theology once you are introduced to God that you do not recognize. To conclude that God predetermined every evil to every detail and be comfortable with this is not my initial response. Predeterminism of horror, which Calvinism includes, should be taken to the Scripture to see if this is so, that is why it is worth exhausting studying over such topic.
 
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Transformator Reformator said:
That is great statement and advice, but I will be amazed if someone arrived to TULIP without someone first implementing these ideas.
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I taught systematic theology for over five years, starting out as an Arminianist and finishing up a biblicist. Believe what is written and not what this school or that seminary teaches. And by the way, you can be sure others will disagree with you just as much as you disagree with them, but God is always right.
 
OttoM said:
There is scripture that seems to indicate that a soul can “return” to Sheol. Also, in the book of revelation, it mentions the “rest of the dead” receiving another chance during Satan’s season of deception.

Something else to consider - John the Baptist was Elijah. He even dressed the same way, and I believe had a similar diet. However, John the Baptist did not know he was Elijah, because when someone asked him; he said I am not. However, Yahushua said he was Elijah.

So can the Almighty send a soul back on earth, but with its memory erased? Scripture seems to indicate this is the case. It’s not a very strong case, but I don’t think we are meant to understand everything. And that’s okay.
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It is given to a man once to die. John the Baptist was like Elijah. He was not Elijah. Prophecy has to be treated very carefully. It is almost never fulfilled the way we think and it is always expressing ideas and realities from the spiritual perspective, a perspective that is very hard for us to grasp.

What you’re talking about is reincarnation and obviously that’s not true.
 
OttoM said:
There is scripture that seems to indicate that a soul can “return” to Sheol. Also, in the book of revelation, it mentions the “rest of the dead” receiving another chance during Satan’s season of deception.
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This? --> Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

To me it is indicating that all the un-righteous who have ever lived and died will be resurrected after the 1000 year kingdom. After the 1000, would be the 2nd resurrection, where in all un-righteous are brought to the judgement seat of Christ.

The testing of the people during the 1000 year kingdom, there at the end of it when Satan is released would be for those alive and those souls born during the 1000 year kingdom to unbelievers that survived the day of the Lord at the beginning of the 1000 year kingdom.
 
OttoM said:
Something else to consider - John the Baptist was Elijah. He even dressed the same way, and I believe had a similar diet. However, John the Baptist did not know he was Elijah, because when someone asked him; he said I am not. However, Yahushua said he was Elijah.

So can the Almighty send a soul back on earth, but with its memory erased? Scripture seems to indicate this is the case. It’s not a very strong case, but I don’t think we are meant to understand everything. And that’s okay.
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I believe that Yeshua was indicating that John the baptist had the spirit of Elijah.

Luk 1:12 And when Zacharias saw him, he was troubled, and fear fell upon him.
Luk 1:13 But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John.
...
Luk 1:16 And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God.
Luk 1:17 And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.


Here In Mathew 17, Yeshua was saying that he WILL COME and that he HAS CAME.
We know that John fulfilled verse 12 of Matthew 17 but it is not clear who will fulfill verse 11. I believe it will be Elijah himself but it could be another that comes in the spirit of Elijah.

Mat 17:10 And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come?
Mat 17:11 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.
Mat 17:12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.
Mat 17:13 Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.
 
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