• Biblical Families is not a dating website. It is a forum to discuss issues relating to marriage and the Bible, and to offer guidance and support, not to find a wife. Click here for more information.

Biblical Patriarchy vs. Predators

Status
Not open for further replies.
When I was referring to a 15 year old, I was considering basically a 15 year old virgin girl. Pregnancy changes the equation in a major way, because the child needs a father.

Totally agree father needs to be involved guiding and directing. But in the "real world", no father should be choosing a husband for his non-pregnant 15 year old to a 50 year old, 40 year old, or 30 year old. The 50 vs. 15 thing creeps the hell out of me. I am 51 and that is just shocking to me that it's even being discussed.

Let her mature, guide, and help her and at the appropriate age, vet her potential husband. I don't know what that age is, I already admitted that, but 15 isn't it. Does this really need to be said?
 
A God fearing father should not be choosing a husband for his 15 year old daughter.
No problem. I disagree. Father's decision totally. That's not what you want for your daughters and I get that. For a father inclined differently, he has every right and no one can judge him if he's within the bounds of biblical law.
First off, how many God fearing fathers are there even. 1 percent? .0001 percent?

He can scout out young men that he thinks may be good candidates, but 15 is to young to "choose" (your words) a good husband.
How many God fearing fathers are in this forum? Because that's who we're really talking about. I wouldn't marry my (proverbial) daughter to a man in the world.

I have no offense with you choosing whats best for your daughters. We all should be afforded the same respect for our daughters.
 
When I was referring to a 15 year old, I was considering basically a 15 year old virgin girl. Pregnancy changes the equation in a major way, because the child needs a father.
I find it interesting that you are so strictly yes/no in the situation.
Evidently you are good with a 16 year old juvenile marrying a pregnant 15 year old, but not if she isn’t pregnant and actually wants to marry a mature man. Apparently that’s unconscionable to you.

My position is that if a 15 year old gets pregnant, it is a mistake in this day and age to further penalize her life by tying her to a the guy that has already made one bad decision and probably doesn’t have a job. Almost certainly not a career.
 
I find it interesting that you are so strictly yes/no in the situation.
Evidently you are good with a 16 year old juvenile marrying a pregnant 15 year old, but not if she isn’t pregnant and actually wants to marry a mature man. Apparently that’s unconscionable to you.

My position is that if a 15 year old gets pregnant, it is a mistake in this day and age to further penalize her life by tying her to a the guy that has already made one bad decision and probably doesn’t have a job. Almost certainly not a career.
I said marriage may be an option go back and read my words. I didn't say required. The factors you discussed need to be considered.

In the particulars of my parents, the man that married my mother had a job and worked his ass off as an 18 or 19 year old to support us.
 
Pregnancy changes the equation in a major way, because the child needs a father.
That’s almost Cart Blanche, brother. You didn’t say that it makes it an option, you actually gave them a reason for the marriage.
In the particulars of my parents, the man that married my mother had a job and worked his ass off as an 18 or 19 year old to support us.
And that happened many times in the past, but I dare say that that man was head and shoulders above 90% of today’s boys.
 
But in the "real world", no father should be choosing a husband for his non-pregnant 15 year old to a 50 year old, 40 year old, or 30 year old. The 50 vs. 15 thing creeps the hell out of me.
Oh, I agree. Past double her age is just creepy.
Creepy does not mean sinful of course. But it's still creepy.
Evidently you are good with a 16 year old juvenile marrying a pregnant 15 year old
Personally I'd much prefer they thought about it hard enough to decide whether or not to marry before getting pregnant. If they do get pregnant, there are scriptural obligations that kick in, and marriage immediately requires serious discussion. But much as I'd be uncomfortable with my daughter marrying young, or getting pregnant then marrying the father equally young, I'd be far less upset by the former option.
 
If they do get pregnant, there are scriptural obligations that kick in, and marriage immediately requires serious discussion.
There are no scriptural obligations on the father.
If he decides that the young man isn’t acceptable, the bride price still must be paid. But there is no obligation to give her to him.
 
Up until about eighty years ago it was perfectly legal and even normal in most places for older men to marry 13-17 year old girls. Checking my own family tree I see most of the women were married at 15 to 17. What happened that made this socially repugnant? Lesbian feminists and socialists are quite frankly the source of every reason why most young women don't marry young anymore.
My wife's family tree reflects this as well. I suppose if Mandy's opinions were correct, of the 6 women I know of in her lineage, all of them married between 14-16, one married at 17, and her mom married at 18. I suppose those women who married young, had good lives, stayed married and raised families were all wrong.
Because you can't do both, no 15 year old is ready for marriage. No one should be able to decide that a 15 year old is ready for marriage, not the 15 year old, not the father, not the potential husband, no one. Just leave the child alone. I'm sorry but this is so far into left field for me.
This is most of human history, the idea that those young women aren't "ready" for marriage is a load of leftist/feminist modern bull hockey.


I for one think the VAST majority of women 15-22 aren't mature enough and trained in good character to be a wife and mother. But saying none of them are capable of being married is frankly the dumbest thing I've heard all day. Yes certainly most 15 year olds are not ready for marriage. But to say all 15 year olds are incapable is just patently false.

My wife is amazing, and she would have made a fine wife even at 15.

In fact, at 15, both her parents and mine were suggesting we consider each other. Due to cultural conditioning, we both thought the other was outside a rational age range. But we were put on each other's radar as a possibility. So we both independently and without knowing the other had been gently directed to consider the other person, we both started paying attention to each other's character.

Fast forward a year, and I was willing to wait a few years to marry her. She didn't want to wait that long. I married her when she was 17. (Legally) We're 9 years apart in age.

So we decided on a formal "courtship" relationship. Basically chaperoned time to get to know each other without temptation. We did nothing more than hold hands and gave each other a hug as a greeting or goodbye. Our first kiss was right after I proposed and she accepted. And nothing else more serious than light kissing happened until our wedding night.

We're wonderfully happily married, and she decided she wanted to marry me when she was still 15.

In my wife's family line there are two women who married at 14 and 15. One of them just buried her husband of 53 years, they had dozens of grandchildren and great grands. Loved each other their whole lives and had a great marriage.

Please just temper your stance and reserve your vitriol for those who are actually predators. A fifteen year old is certainly capable of marriage, and being a Godly woman for decades.
 
The fact that anyone thinks it's ok for a 35, 40 or 50 year old man to marry a 15 year old girl in this day and age is predatory behavior in itself.

Funny you bring up feminism because my dad is one of the most conservative man I know, we argue constantly because he thinks my opinions are a little too left sometimes. He's anti-abortion, he's anti-vaccine, he's old school, he was married at 17. So I brought this topic up to him, I argued everyone's perspective as to why a 15 year old who is ready for marriage should be allowed to marry, he thought I was absolutely fucking insane. He said "what in the hell would a man want with a 15 year old girl." He was even more blown away that a man his age would want a 15 year old girl. I won't tell you what else he said but it would involve serious jail time.

I think too many of you have been on this echo-chamber forum for so long that you've lost touch with reality.
 
Last edited:
The fact that anyone thinks it's ok for a 35, 40 or 50 year old man to marry a 15 year old girl in this day and age is predatory behavior in itself.
Yet folks here have shared real life stories, their personal life story even in the case of MeganC. She was 18 and her husband was around 44 when they married.

I doubt anyone here would be suggesting or recommending that kind of age gap or pursuing a 15 year old when that age, that said biblically it was not uncommon or prohibited, and even in the last hundred years it was still common for folks to marry younger. I agree the age gap and young girl were not as common....and that combination today probably should raise more then eyebrows. But I know personally a couple that married at 16 and 17, and also a couple who were 30 years apart in age. Absolutes are hard to come up with when the world is full of unique people and situations.
 
Hi all, I'm going to moderate this thread. BF, though you may not have seen it written anywhere, has a firm policy (though probably some cases slipped thru the cracks), for more than a decade, of disallowing (and considering banning) any discussion (on forum or at retreats) of underage (legally speaking) marriage. There is too much theoretical discussion of "15" in here. This thread is now locked, and will be hidden in a few days. We know what God has called us to focus on as a ministry, and this surely isn't it, and you may not appreciate the risk you may put any of us in.

You also may not understand how the casualness on this topic affects others. 2 people have asked to delete their forum accounts as a result of this thread, not sure how many others may have just walked away.

I will paste what FollowingHim wrote earlier in this thread:
To keep my statements in context and not think we're arguing from greatly different positions, do remember that as I said before I see the legal age of consent as a hard minimum, and in most countries that is 16.

If every use of "15" had instead referred to "legal age of consent", we wouldn't have had a problem.

I will add that in US it ranges from 16-18, at least 11 states are age 18. Biblical Families recognizes the state's authority over this age, (and yes of course we understand it is acceptable when the law allows because the other person is of a close age) and if you don't agree, BF is probably not the place for you. This is just not a battle that will be fought on this forum at all. If you disagree, you are welcome to email board@biblicalfamilies.org.

Thanks for your understanding.

(Perhaps this thread has enough 'meat' to be able delete this stuff and open it again, but I don't have the bandwidth for that now, so that will wait.)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top