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Exodus 21:4 "If his master gives him a lady...her kids belong to the master"???

Slumberfreeze said:
Heyo. The wife and children belonging to the master is a good thing.

If you leave the faith, your wife and kids that He gave you still belong to Him. The only way to keep what He gave you is to stay with Him until the end.
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This creates the million dollar question. Is an apostate dead? Does it make him cut off from ‘Israel’? And if so what are the practical applications?

I’d be interested to know more about what Israel modeled in this instance.
 
I don't know that this translates for death. My toolbox only allows me to tinker with subjects in the metaphor; so since Israel isn't mentioned, Israel doesn't model anything but is outside the scope of spiritual intent of the law. Likewise the concept of death.
 
I was thinking more along the lines of someone who was living, yet considered dead. The man who leaves his master and therefore his family is obviously living, yet dead to his family whom he has abandoned. That woman is evidently not bound to him but to her master. I wonder how this worked in real life in Israel. What were the principles that justified this occasion? I know that the term ‘cut off” indicated someone who was considered dead, while living.

In the New Testament it looks something like this.

Romans 7:4. Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

Romans 11:15. For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
Casting away (cut off?)= death, restoration = life from death

Ephesians 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins:; 5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
In Christ, = alive. Apart from Christ = dead. Both conditions are evidenced in a living person.

1 Thess 5:5, 6 Now she that is a widow indeed, and desolate, trusteth in God, and continueth in supplications and prayers night and day. But she that liveth in pleasure* is dead while she liveth.
* from spatale (luxury); to be voluptuous:--live in pleasure, be wanton.
 
Verifyveritas76 said:
I was thinking more along the lines of someone who was living, yet considered dead. The man who leaves his master and therefore his family is obviously living, yet dead to his family whom he has abandoned. That woman is evidently not bound to him but to her master. I wonder how this worked in real life in Israel. What were the principles that justified this occasion? I know that the term ‘cut off” indicated someone who was considered dead, while living.

In the New Testament it looks something like this.

Romans 7:4. Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

Romans 11:15. For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
Casting away (cut off?)= death, restoration = life from death

Ephesians 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins:; 5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
In Christ, = alive. Apart from Christ = dead. Both conditions are evidenced in a living person.

1 Thess 5:5, 6 Now she that is a widow indeed, and desolate, trusteth in God, and continueth in supplications and prayers night and day. But she that liveth in pleasure* is dead while she liveth.
* from spatale (luxury); to be voluptuous:--live in pleasure, be wanton.
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This is too big of a leap. We have direct scriptural instructions for how a believer is to treat an unbelieving spouse and it's to be a good spouse.
 
ZecAustin said:
This is too big of a leap. We have direct scriptural instructions for how a believer is to treat an unbelieving spouse and it's to be a good spouse.
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Very true. My question would be, where is the direct scriptural instruction for a man who is given a wife because he claims God as his master and then becomes apostate?

These are not the same.
 
I don't know if the word "instruction" applies to the apostate

For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
 
Reminds me of Korah. And his family. It’s interesting in Numbers 16 when Moses tells all of the congregation of Israel to separate from Korah. It says that he, his wife and children stand in the door of the tent.

I wonder if she could have left or if she willingly or defiantly was standing with her man against judgement.

Could this be considered apostasy by the husband? The judgement for this was obviously that he was cut off, figuratively from Israel and then literally.
 
Hebrews 6:4-6
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Is this not the definition of one who walks away from his master? If we are a believer, we are all bought with a price.
 
hmm..

The time that he was a slave isn't the same as what we call 'bought with a price' , more like enslaved through debt with redemption as a future possibility with money or on the seventh year.

Which obviously wrecks my initial assessment of the law. hmm hmm hmm

Maybe the whole thing is best interpreted as messianic, with Christ being the slave. God gave Him a wife and children (as it were) and Jesus loving Him and us chose to be pierced and dwell in His Master's house forever with us. Perhaps this was a way of saying that if Jesus wanted, He could have gone out free, owing nothing, but then we would have remained the property of God and Jesus would have left with nothing.
 
Verse 8 is interesting. But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.
 
Regarding the Exodus 21 lady and children that are left by the husband, I’m not aware that a lawful divorce was either required or available. I’m not sure how that worked. I’m sure its an interesting bit of info though
 
For actual literal, physical abandonment I believe the sin of a remarriage falls to the adandoner, although a remarriage is still not endorsed or expicitly allowed or even referred to.
 
Kevin said:
Sometimes we focus on one section of scripture and over look others where the answer lies. This can lead to incorrect assumptions. This is just to correct that oversight.
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So can anyone address the apparent contradiction between Duet 15:12 which says that both male and female Hebrew servants go free, and Ex 21:7 which says a daughter sold as a servant does not go free like the male servants? What's going on here?
 
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Kevin said:
There's a thread that you missed that covers that. Of course many different interpretations.
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Ah, figures. I'll have to see if I find it.

Kevin said:
This is not a women selling herself into bondage knowing that in seven years her time of service is up (a woman who cant afford to pay a debt, may otherwise starve, or be reduced to prostitution for some reason or another), but a Father selling His daughter for the purpose of finding a husband for her.
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That was kinda my initial take on it, but I wanted to see what others said.
 
Kevin said:
I wasn't headed there, I started off by pointing out where the statement made that women were not set free after 7 years was wrong and showed in scripture where that is found. Then I mentioned apostasy and the reason The Father divorced was for apostasy/spiritual adultery. After @Slumberfreeze touched the subject. If your saying spiritual adultery is not grounds for a lawful divorce tell Yah He was wrong. Then I was pointing out why I interpreted the verses in Hebrew about teaching on Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. A completely different topic than divorce and remarriage.
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I wasn't really talking to you. I do think you may have discovered a distinction or an important exception in women in slavery in the Law and I am suspecting that a deep dive in to the verses you quote would show reveal a difference between types of female slaves. I haven't done that deep dive so I won't engage on it here.
God isn't an example that can be used to show women can remarry bcause of a husband's apostasy. He's the Husband so it wouldn't apply backwards anyway. Also He divorced His wives for adultery which is clearly grounds for remarriage.
 
Kevin said:
There's a thread that you missed that covers that. Of course many different interpretations. The way I understand it is this.

Exodus 21:7-10
7 “If a man sells his daughter to be a maidservant, she is not to go free as the male servants do.
This is not a women selling herself into bondage knowing that in seven years her time of service is up (a woman who cant afford to pay a debt, may otherwise starve, or be reduced to prostitution for some reason or another), but a Father selling His daughter for the purpose of finding a husband for her.
8 If she does not please her master who has selected her for himself, then he is to allow her to be redeemed. He will have no power to sell her to a foreign people, seeing as he has dealt deceitfully toward her. This doesn't mean he had sex with her, its not saying he didn't but in context with the whole instruction she was bought as a wife and just that he was displeased with her. He must allowed her to be redeemed ,bought, remarried? (Hey @ZecAustin since you brought it up earlier it seems that divorced woman may be redeemable/ eligible for remarriage), he can not sell her to strange, foreign, non-relative, adulterous women, different, alien (you pick, I went with my common sense looked to context and culture and settled on foreigner, although stranger has the conation of one who is not of the faith which would be applicable as well)
9 If he betroths her to his son, he must give her the rights of a daughter.
Once again shows the purpose of why she was sold.
10 If he takes another wife, he is not to diminish her food, her clothing, or her marriage rights.
Leading to the instruction of what cant be done if he adds another wife.
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Of course a properly divorced woman is eligible for remarriage .
 
ZecAustin said:
Also He divorced His wives for adultery which is clearly grounds for remarriage.
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I think I know what you are referring to here but please clarify... grounds for the husband to remarry? or the wife? Or both?
 
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