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GRR... I am annoyed at two of our more public voices

Yesterday I was watching another YT video from a very public christian polygamist when I heard him parroting some of the thinking that I have been hearing from another of our friends that likes to parle with people.

They have been making statements that in my view water down the legitimacy of a man wanting more than one woman. The statements go something to the effect of, you should not plan to have more than one wife. Or, It has nothing to do with sexual desire, I just want to cover more women. In yesterdays "Live" the statement was made that you should NOT come into marriage saying, "I want to have four wives". And that you do not know how many God will bless you with and you should only take a wife if God tells you to take a wife. It should not be your idea but God's idea.

That statement was so OFF BASE that his wife who was with him in the "live" asked him point blank, how can a man know if it is God's idea or your own?

Here is the truth of it all. We Can have a plan. We SHOULD have a plan. And, plans can change. But to say that it should not be your idea is nuts!

How many times have we heard a young girl or a recently married young lady say that she intends to have X number of children. It is her role to have children and for her to be making plans to have X number is not something that we should scorn her for. We all know that she may end up unable to have children at all. She may end up being fertile Mertle and have more than she wanted. Each child she gets we count as a blessing from God but that does not mean that she should not plan for the number that she wants.

The EXACT same thing should be true for men. As young men still single or early into married life, if a man were to say, I plan to have 3 wives someday, that should be perfectly fine. We all know that he may never find the first woman to marry him. He may end up as an incel. That is life. But, with a plan, the likely-hood of life playing out somewhat close to the plan goes way up!

Another trend is telling men what are the legitimate reasons for wanting another wife. Saying that the only valid reason should be for covering a woman that needs covered.
Well DUH! IF you are desiring to cover a married woman that is a major issue. But a man may desire to take another wife for any of the reasons that he sees fit to marry her. Stop trying to say how other men should be thinking!


So, to our public facing friends, STOP being weak in the debate!
It is OKAY for men to have a desire and plan for more than one wife!!
Stop telling men the reasons that you find acceptable for them to desire a wife.
STOP telling people that you publicly debate that it has nothing to do with physical desire. There is nothing wrong with that being a legit reason for the desire.

And to the two I am speaking to, thank you for being in the public arena and engaging on this topic.
 
They’re getting the truth out there. They’re doing the work.
I agree. Hence my comment, "And to the two I am speaking to, thank you for being in the public arena and engaging on this topic.".


That said, I hate the watering down of the message. I want people to speak boldly for the truth and not hide from our God created nature.
Women may choose to marry for any number of reasons. Protection from someone they are scared of, or freedom from a family that they feel is not treating them right OR because they feel like the man they are marrying has huge potential to provide a lifestyle that they want OR to live in the country they want to live in OR because the are lonely OR because they want children OR ANY NUMBER OF OTHER REASONS.

No one is judging them for their numerous reasons for choosing to marry a man.

Men should not be judged for all of their reasons also. That is my point! And it can be THEIR plan to marry another one not simply that God dropped this women into my lap and mercy me, I just had to do it to please God.

God does not tend to direct our lives at this level. He lets us make our own decisions for the most part. There are only two places in scripture where I see that God told someone to marry someone else. Joseph, the husband of Mary and Hosea the prophet. And with Hosea, he still seems to have had the final say into which prostitute that he married.

Outside of those KEY situations, God tends to let us make our own choices...
 
How do you square with:
23The steps of a good man are ordered by the LORD: and he delighteth in his way.

24Man's goings are of the LORD; how can a man then understand his own way?

9A man's heart deviseth his way: but the LORD directeth his steps.
 
you should not plan to have more than one wife.

Nonsense. If a man is going to pursue this life then he should start his family with someone who also wants this life. That way they are equally yoked.

Also, planning for another wife is a good thing even if it doesn't happen.

Why? Because the men who make this work the best know that success means:

  • They need to have God in their life, in their heart, and at the center of their family.
  • They need to be debt free.
  • They need to be self-employed so they don't get fired for being poly.
  • They need a house big enough for the family they want.
Even if you never add another wife to your family then the family you have will be forever grateful for what you've provided. You will be a role model to your children and you will be a natural leader in your family.

It has nothing to do with sexual desire, I just want to cover more women.

More nonsense. God made men to have desires and male desire is a gift from God. So long as it is used for Godly reasons then there's nothing wrong with a man seeing another woman he wants to fill with his children.
 
Nonsense. If a man is going to pursue this life then he should start his family with someone who also wants this life. That way they are equally yoked.

Also, planning for another wife is a good thing even if it doesn't happen.

Why? Because the men who make this work the best know that success means:

  • They need to have God in their life, in their heart, and at the center of their family.
  • They need to be debt free.
  • They need to be self-employed so they don't get fired for being poly.
  • They need a house big enough for the family they want.
Even if you never add another wife to your family then the family you have will be forever grateful for what you've provided. You will be a role model to your children and you will be a natural leader in your family.



More nonsense. God made men to have desires and male desire is a gift from God. So long as it is used for Godly reasons then there's nothing wrong with a man seeing another woman he wants to fill with his children.
Yes! This, exactly this! Megan... You get it!!!
 
How do you square with:
23The steps of a good man are ordered by the LORD: and he delighteth in his way.

24Man's goings are of the LORD; how can a man then understand his own way?

9A man's heart deviseth his way: but the LORD directeth his steps.
We are his children.... He teaches us principles. Then we with our own freewill go off and pursue our God given inclinations with the principles that he gave us as our guide. This is how we direct our own children. We teach them principles but we are not telling them, I want you to be an artist, you a doctor, you a farmer etc. Now, we may advise based on our observations but we want them to pursue their own freewill with our guidance as the overarching principles that will keep them living as good godly people.

How do you see it?
 
They have been making statements that in my view water down the legitimacy of a man wanting more than one woman. The statements go something to the effect of, you should not plan to have more than one wife. Or, It has nothing to do with sexual desire, I just want to cover more women. In yesterdays "Live" the statement was made that you should NOT come into marriage saying, "I want to have four wives". And that you do not know how many God will bless you with and you should only take a wife if God tells you to take a wife. It should not be your idea but God's idea.
I really appreciated your take on these statements; I have heard them many times from many different people. For me the thoughts have always represented the men who I felt boasted of having 3 or 4 wives, knowing many families who would just like to find a 2nd wife and have looked for many years with no success. I guess I thought it best not to "tell God what you want" but didn't view it very often as something God puts in our hearts to desire.

I do agree that saying you just want to cover a woman for her benefit and not acknowledge the benefits, emotionally and physically, that would be coming to you is a bit pious. My husband says that the reason he wanted a second wife was the same reasons he wanted the first!

I do understand the caution of not just "making something happen" because you think it would be exciting or whatever. If our society had always excepted plural marriage, Biblical or not, then finding a 2nd or 3rd or 4th would probably be viewed the same way most people view dating these days. But unfortunately, living this idea out in real life comes with many negative costs, so those who have gone before do tend to be more on the cautious side when speaking to others who are just coming to the understanding of it.
 
I really appreciated your take on these statements; I have heard them many times from many different people. For me the thoughts have always represented the men who I felt boasted of having 3 or 4 wives, knowing many families who would just like to find a 2nd wife and have looked for many years with no success. I guess I thought it best not to "tell God what you want" but didn't view it very often as something God puts in our hearts to desire.

I do agree that saying you just want to cover a woman for her benefit and not acknowledge the benefits, emotionally and physically, that would be coming to you is a bit pious. My husband says that the reason he wanted a second wife was the same reasons he wanted the first!

I do understand the caution of not just "making something happen" because you think it would be exciting or whatever. If our society had always excepted plural marriage, Biblical or not, then finding a 2nd or 3rd or 4th would probably be viewed the same way most people view dating these days. But unfortunately, living this idea out in real life comes with many negative costs, so those who have gone before do tend to be more on the cautious side when speaking to others who are just coming to the understanding of it.
I hear you. Your point that people are cautious about how they speak to others is in my view, part of the problem. When a man, like your husband, says more honestly, "the reason he wanted a second wife was the same reasons he wanted the first!", who can refute that? Who would feel like he was an ogre for wanting the first wife? It is relatable. But, when people perceive that someone is not being fully transparent, they will feel like they must not truly believe for themselves that it is a righteous thing. This is the blood in the water moment that they will truly attack.

When we are more matter of fact about it, it removes the stigma.

And when a man believes that it is time to get married, he is a fool if he "Makes it happen" just so that it is done without taking the time to choose wisely. That goes for his first wife, second or more.

Thanks for the your thoughts on this also.. :-)
 
Is it wrong to desire more than one wife? We can broaden that by saying, Is it wrong to desire a wife? Then go wider and say is it wrong to desire a woman? Is it wrong to desire more than one woman? Is it wrong to desire multiple offspring? Is it wrong to desire a single offspring? Desire many offspring? Is it wrong to want both? What about neither or one or the other? Is it wrong to desire to be fruitful? Is it of the flesh? Is justification necessary for the pursuit of any of these scenarios?
 
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A saying that I picked up in my youth;
Some guys want to get married in the worst way, and many do.

It applies triple in regards to polygyny.
 
I agree. Hence my comment, "And to the two I am speaking to, thank you for being in the public arena and engaging on this topic.".


That said, I hate the watering down of the message. I want people to speak boldly for the truth and not hide from our God created nature.
Women may choose to marry for any number of reasons. Protection from someone they are scared of, or freedom from a family that they feel is not treating them right OR because they feel like the man they are marrying has huge potential to provide a lifestyle that they want OR to live in the country they want to live in OR because the are lonely OR because they want children OR ANY NUMBER OF OTHER REASONS.

No one is judging them for their numerous reasons for choosing to marry a man.

Men should not be judged for all of their reasons also. That is my point! And it can be THEIR plan to marry another one not simply that God dropped this women into my lap and mercy me, I just had to do it to please God.

God does not tend to direct our lives at this level. He lets us make our own decisions for the most part. There are only two places in scripture where I see that God told someone to marry someone else. Joseph, the husband of Mary and Hosea the prophet. And with Hosea, he still seems to have had the final say into which prostitute that he married.

Outside of those KEY situations, God tends to let us make our own choices...
I’m a newbie and have to ask a question regarding your statements.
Is it not allowed for one man to truly believe the Lord will guide and choose him to have a wife? Or however many (like the woman wanting 2 children) as the Lord directs? Yes what I want I will ask the Lord for, but I have noticed my way or desire doesn’t always gel with his?
And if someone asked me publicly or privately regarding wives and numbers… I would have responded, that is for the Lord to direct. And for me to obey.
How do I know it’s God and not my own will? Same way I and my wife both knew before we laid eyes on each other the Lord was strongly directing us both.
So the main question is…. Is it not right to speak truth when asked, that is the truth I know and not able to speak for others?
JDW
 
I’m a newbie and have to ask a question regarding your statements.
Is it not allowed for one man to truly believe the Lord will guide and choose him to have a wife? Or however many (like the woman wanting 2 children) as the Lord directs? Yes what I want I will ask the Lord for, but I have noticed my way or desire doesn’t always gel with his?
And if someone asked me publicly or privately regarding wives and numbers… I would have responded, that is for the Lord to direct. And for me to obey.
How do I know it’s God and not my own will? Same way I and my wife both knew before we laid eyes on each other the Lord was strongly directing us both.
So the main question is…. Is it not right to speak truth when asked, that is the truth I know and not able to speak for others?
JDW
You and anyone else can say what you or they want and believe. I am also allowed to say what I want. :)

The reason for my GRR is that these men are publicly making statements and projecting onto other men what they believe. They are stating what men should do or not do. They are stating what are approved reasons for men to want a wife. THAT is not cool.

They can act in that manner for themselves if they choose, no problem. Making public statements wherein you are directing others brings your statements into scrutiny from others, like myself. Scrutiny, not hatred. I love those guys. They are doing Yah's work.

But, as they are both here, they can read and hear what we are saying and hopefully, adjust as they see things we point out as valid. If they don't, well, we will still love them but continue to decry things we disagree with... Not with hatred, with strong passion and a love for our brothers...

I truly hope that is how I am coming across anyway. Shalom!!
 
My question for you is, have you gone to them? So I am not sure who the second person is, but I am positive who the parle is, so on to my next question. Did he make that statement on YT? If so and I could be wrong about this, but with all the nay-sayers out there, he probably words it differently than he does on his other platform, which requires a paid membership. In there, you get the meat and potatoes. Something to think about.
 
My question for you is, have you gone to them? So I am not sure who the second person is, but I am positive who the parle is, so on to my next question. Did he make that statement on YT? If so and I could be wrong about this, but with all the nay-sayers out there, he probably words it differently than he does on his other platform, which requires a paid membership. In there, you get the meat and potatoes. Something to think about.
no. I have not "gone" to them. I know they are here. I am throwing it out here for discussion. They are welcome to chime in anytime...
This is not a matter of sin against me where I would need to "go to a brother" and then later "go to the assembly"
We are here, engaging in a community of like minded people regarding a truth in the word of God. This is the best place for this conversation that I can think of. No malice....
:-)
 
Proverbs 18:22 NKJV
He who finds a wife finds a good thing, And obtains favor from the LORD (Yahuah).

Furthermore - speaking between the relationship between the husband and wife -

Proverbs 5:19 NLT
She is a loving deer, a graceful doe. Let her breasts satisfy you always. May you always be captivated by her love.

The Creator has given the man tools through his Word - to help build his house. One righteous method is through multiple wives. That is more helpers. More sons. More daughters. It's good for women and children to be covered under righteous men. Instead of fornicating and marrying un-righteous non-believers; because so many christian men are more interested in sports versus diligently seeking their Maker and what his Word actually says. According to his Word - a wife is a blessing. Children are also a blessing. So if a man wants more of something that is good - who in the world is anyone to go against the Word? Do people realize who they're actually standing up against? Here:

1734892307177.png
 
So, to our public facing friends, STOP being weak in the debate!
Shalom and welcome to the forum.

While I appreciate the criticism, I find it ironic that you use a pseudonym and no picture while criticizing men who have their real names and real families in the public eye... 🤔🤔
 
Shalom and welcome to the forum.

While I appreciate the criticism, I find it ironic that you use a pseudonym and no picture while criticizing men who have their real names and real families in the public eye... 🤔🤔
Come on Pete.... You chose to go into the public debate. Don't attack the messenger just because you don't like the message.

Not to mention... I support you in the public debates, I am all over in your YT comments section ALL the time using my real name. The same is true for RK. I do have a legit criticism that I have put out here though for consideration and I hope that you will take it to heart knowing that I am not doing it to attack you but to encourage you towards a more solid debate without watering down any of the truths and rights that are God given to us.

I continue to think of you and others doing the public facing debates with gratefulness.
I bid you, Shalom!
 
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