• Biblical Families is not a dating website. It is a forum to discuss issues relating to marriage and the Bible, and to offer guidance and support, not to find a wife. Click here for more information.

Guidelines for posting an introduction

FollowingHim

FollowingHim

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Welcome! We're thrilled you are here. Even MORE thrilled that you have chosen to introduce yourself. We look forward to becoming acquainted.

This introductions section:
Is for telling us a bit about yourself so we can all get to know each other better in friendship.
Is not intended for posting advertisements looking for a wife* etc.

This isn't a dating website*, but a theological & practical discussion forum. The primary purpose of this site is to teach and learn more about the Bible, and get to know other brothers and sisters in Christ. We won't stop you from posting advertisements, but bear in mind that in our experience, the vast majority of successful plural marriages are between people who met each other in the real world, not on this forum. The majority of the discussions on this forum are more aimed at helping people with their existing marriages. If your primary purpose in visiting this site is to hunt for a spouse, you may wish to look into dedicated dating websites also as a possibly more effective way of achieving that. But most importantly, pray and ask God to provide.

Please tell us a bit more about yourself, and join in the discussion elsewhere on the forum. There are heaps of excellent old threads to read also, and other material in the "Resources" menu at the top of this page.

It is best to give your introductions post a meaningful title, such as "Fred from Peru", if you just call it "Hello" people will struggle to find it.

If you want to share a lot about yourself, we also have a "real people's stories" section that we would love to have your story in. Send a message to @FollowingHim if you'd like to share your story there.

Once again, a hearty welcome. Enjoy your time on BiblicalFamilies.org.

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* Recent legal changes in the USA have made it difficult for anybody to host a dating website in the USA (see here for more information). As a result, some websites that people used to use to look for additional wives have closed down, and some users of those sites may see Biblical Families as an alternative way to look for a wife. This is not a service Biblical Families offers, to find such services click this link.
 
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So, some people have called me "Babe" all my life, though I am no special case and prefer lower case "babe". No, I am not that Babe in the Bible or the baseball field, though I did hit a home run in Little League. I am a man who can stifle the snickers of critics with an air of competence.

I signed in here on the old site years ago and occasionally showed up to follow some comments and events. It struck me back then that the site welcomed all believers quite tolerantly, but in reading the doctrinal statement now it is more specific. Mormons excluded, it would seem, with the statement of the Bible being the only written scripture. Ah, fun stuff there. I am a scientist and a student of history and lots of other stuff. I take the Bible for what it is, the compiled accepted faithful writings of a particular line of history. It reflects the culture of its times, which included the occasional choice of polygyny. Mostly, the issue was responsibility and survival under a man's capacity to lead. Under some circumstances, a man was, according the text of Leviticus, supposed to extend care and include the widow of a near kinsman. This was not a Hollywood script, folks. Boaz and Ruth are as Biblical as you can get, and the whole book is the practical implementation of the Levitical Law. I have understood that, among the Jews, there has always been a case or two somewhat similar quietly lived out.

Although my wife and I have LDS roots and faith, I at least would be called that lost sheep out in the desert, and I welcome discussions based on any common thread of information.

So anyway, I am looking for some social connections and shared perspectives for my family, and I think it would be a positive thing to bring them to some of your social events/retreats on whatever terms management here might deem acceptable.
 
babe, some things people genuinely don't mind unless you mention it.

Yes, there are some particulars in the doctrinal statement but I read it broadly anyway and felt quite welcome when I arrived at a retreat.

I like your description of the Bible.
 
Babe, there is a Western cultural assumption that every polygamist is a Mormon or a Muslim. This is why we have to make it very clear that we are not a Mormon ministry. That does not mean that Mormons, Muslims, or even atheists are banned from having anything to do with us. The doctrinal statement simply reflects where we as a ministry are coming from. You're most welcome to join in the conversation. We do ask LDS and others to add a brief note to this effect in their signature on the forum so people know where they are coming from, it helps people understand the full picture of where someone's views are coming from in certain topics particularly since the Mormon concept of "celestial marriage" is rather different to the Christian concept of marriage that ends at death so we can easily end up talking at cross-purposes if we don't realise that we're using the same words for two different things, so this helps to facilitate clear discussion.
 
Thanks for the response. I listen to some Bible-based programs on BBN radio. J Vernon McGee's replayed Bible Bes, Ravi Zacharias, Dr. Irwin Lutzer, and others oe even Pacific Garden Mission, and notice the occasional allusion to modern cult Churches, but it doesn't really bother me.
I am mortified by authoritarian presumptions of all kinds, and actively question my own.
It's fairly clear to me that LDS celestial marriage was not much in view in Bible times. They were building a nation, an exemplary nation, and not "eternal family units" per se.
As is the trend with the LDS, I don't begrudge the value of ideas if they appear in more recent times, but I am conflicted with a modern trend that appears to supplant conscience with demands clearly unbiblical.
I am a scientist and a dabbler in history, and one who just loves God most of all. Few souls could match my stride, and probably should not try to walk that way, but rather would find their way best my looking to God.
The teaching of Jesus is a personal call to seek.
 
Hi Babe, welcome. You can edit your post by clicking the edit button which is at the bottom of your post. It's next to your name and the date in grey.
 
Hi all:) I am Maverick. I have been "lurking" on here so to speak for some time now and really appreciate all that you do and the fellowship you have for one another. I have so much to say/share about where I am in my journey with biblical plural marriage (and hope to soon). I thank and praise The Lord Jesus Christ for all the wisdom that is shared here. Talk soon:)
 
FollowingHim said:
* Recent legal changes in the USA have made it quite dangerous for anybody to host a dating website, as if anybody uses the site to facilitate people trafficking the site owners can be held liable even if they knew nothing of it (see here for more information). As a result, some websites that people used to use to look for additional wives have closed down, and some users of those sites may see Biblical Families as an alternative way to look for a wife. This is not what BF is about, and we cannot offer such a service for the same legal reasons that other sites have shut down. If you really, really want to use an online polygamous dating service, you may need to look for one that is hosted outside the USA and not subject to US law. But if you're looking to learn more about marriage and scripture, please stick around here also!
Click to expand...

I'm beginning to consider the very real possibility that some of those sites that shut down knew they had stuff going on behind the scenes that the sites were fronts for . . .

I was actually about to post an Introduction but decided to read the guidelines first (it's always important to follow directions), but then I got distracted by the above warning, which I have heard mentioned here in forum threads and in in-person discussions at BF gatherings.

So I decided to do a little research this afternoon. Keep this in mind: I am not an attorney, but I was once accepted into law school, and I just read the final bill (https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/1865). I believe our collective interpretation here at Biblical Families has been mistaken. I tried to put in a reply at the original thread started by @andrew, but each time I tried I got logged out, and then I was required each time to change my password, so I guess we're not allowed to contribute to that thread anymore. Or maybe the thread thought I was trying to use it as a dating site . . .

Anyway, here's the gist of what I discovered:
  1. Andrew was under the impression that we could be in danger of prosecution for even unknowingly promoting human trafficking.
  2. The law that FOSTA replaced had a phrase in it that deemed it to be a crime to "knowingly benefit from participation in a venture that engages in sex trafficking," and apparently the main intentions of FOSTA were to clarify that phrase and impose harsher penalties. Andrew seemed to believe that the change involved removing "knowingly" in one way or another.
  3. I couldn't find what the bill originally said when it was introduced in April 2017 (so maybe the word "knowingly" was originally intended to be removed, but all that matters in the end is that, after it was amended in committee and reported to the full House in February 2018, "knowingly benefit from participation in a venture that engages in sex trafficking" was instead strengthened (instead of, as I would assert, being turned looney-tune by removing "knowingly") to read, "knowingly assisting, supporting, or facilitating a sex trafficking violation." The bill was then passed by the Senate without amendment in March 2018 and signed into law by Trump in April 2018.
  4. The bill states as its purpose that it is to criminalize efforts "to promote" prostitution of others.
  5. As it now exists in the real world, the 2018 law is actually far less likely to be interpreted as potentially applying to something like the Biblical Families web site.
  6. I say this as a long-time coder: the only way to criminalize something being done on one's site entirely outside of one's knowledge would absolutely require shutting down the ENTIRE internet. Hacking is that ubiquitous -- and impossible to entirely eliminate.
So it is my assertion that we are being WAY overly cautious and probably foolishly chasing our own tail by worrying about being busted for something we're not doing, especially given that, if any of us ever got a whiff that someone was using our site to facilitate, support or assist in sex trafficking, we would be all over hooking the perpetrators up with law enforcement. Because . . . no web site, and certainly no dating web site, can possibly prevent all nefarious activity that they don't even know is being attempted on their site. And, if you think this is preventing the promotion of prostitution online, then I invite you to sign up as a man on OK Cupid, because oodles of young women are offering themselves up there as sex workers in exchange for sugar daddies paying their college expenses. The FOSTA law, in fact, only provides for penalties when 5 or more individuals are being prostituted, thereby protecting Mom & Pop brothels, I guess.
 
How the law is written and how it will be enforced are not the same thing. Right or wrong, the view BF took was in keeping with how the rest of the internet appraised the situation.

The utility of this place for meeting women is so small compared to it's use in education and helping families that I can see why they made the decision they did.
 
rockfox said:
How the law is written and how it will be enforced are not the same thing. Right or wrong, the view BF took was in keeping with how the rest of the internet appraised the situation.

The utility of this place for meeting women is so small compared to it's use in education and helping families that I can see why they made the decision they did.
Click to expand...

I really appreciate that this is a website for education and encouragement on the topic of poly. The fact that this is not a dating site gives it more credence. As far as looking for another or more wives... I keep thinking about how many ways I have in the past "kicked against the goads" to see my will and kingdom be done in various things. I think of the promise given to Abraham and Sarah for a child. They could not wait for G*d but moved forward in their own thinking. Typically not patient or one to truly wait on The Lord... I am feeling more and more comfortable about His timing. Meaning... We do not need this to be a dating site but that The Lord will provide another or more wives to us if He wills and no one or nothing can stop him.
 
A sound Christian poly dating site would be a very good thing to exist, and whether it was officially related to this website or a completely separate venture it would no doubt get much support from the people here. It would look quite different to this site from a software and interface perspective, but they've been made by many people before and I am sure there are people here with the expertise to build one. You can buy dating site software for a few hundred dollars and could probably be up and running quite quickly with minimal coding. And even if @Keith Martin's understanding of that US law is incorrect, there's a whole wide world it could be hosted in outside US jurisdiction.

I think it would be far more effective and beneficial to create a dedicated website that actually did dating well, rather than attempt to use a generic web forum to do something it has not been designed for.

An ecosystem of Christian polygamy resources would also give greater penetration into the world (some people will be interested in one site but not the other, so you reach a wider range of people), and more resilient to attack than a single central website.
 
True. And each website could cross pollinate with the others leading to a more comprehensive understanding, not just in theory or debate but also in practice. I like the term ecosystem, and think that's exactly whats needed. Not just branches of one ministry but multiple independent sites that are pro-poly.

You thought I was going to make a penetration joke but actually I'm very mature.
 
FollowingHim said:
I think it would be far more effective and beneficial to create a dedicated website that actually did dating well, rather than attempt to use a generic web forum to do something it has not been designed for.
Click to expand...

There are several already, just not directly affiliated. Unfortunately they suffer from the same problems all dating sites do. It's an increasingly broken system. We need a revolutionary approach to online dating for it to become effective. Something that can overcome the social factors that contribute to its present ineffectiveness.
 
Do we have a listing of these "several" existing sites in our links of interest section? We do have discussions on various sites there, but they could be scattered. If there are some decent options already, I could make a sticky post in the links of interest, and another in this introductions section, pointing people who are looking for dating sites towards those as options. Could help anyone here who uses those sites find people also.
 
FollowingHim said:
Do we have a listing of these "several" existing sites in our links of interest section? We do have discussions on various sites there, but they could be scattered. If there are some decent options already, I could make a sticky post in the links of interest, and another in this introductions section, pointing people who are looking for dating sites towards those as options. Could help anyone here who uses those sites find people also.
Click to expand...

Two dedicate ones I know of:
sisterwives.com
polygamy.com

Most regular dating sites don't want married men, this one is an exception:
okcupid.com

I'm sure there are others I don't know of. But I wouldn't call any of them decent options. There have been many concerns raised here about them. And online dating is fundamentally broken. It's mostly just an avenue for women to get attention and validation.
 
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