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Half arguments over at GCM

Memphis Dwight

Memphis Dwight

Member
Jeff (goes by PFC Hall there) and I have been trying to have a discussion over at GraceCentered's theology section.
This is where I left off in the much dumbed down befuddlement:

All I see is half-arguments against the practice of having plural wives.

An example of a half-argument: The scriptural specification of the elder being the husband of one wife. That is a half-argument because it doesn't address
everyone yet it is being stretched.

When this is pointed out, then switch to another half-argument.
Such as when they say that polygamous marriages were always troublesome in the bible. This breaks down in several ways. Because the first marriage was monogamous and in was in that one that sin entered the world. Also, because something is difficult does not make it sin. The christian life is filled with difficulties. It aint easy.

There are so many half-arguments and never any direct address of polygamy ever being labeled as sinful. In fact, the exact opposite occurs in scripture in that God is polygamous and commands some men to be that way as well.
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Any help we could get over there from the fine folks here would be greatly appreciated. :D
 
I read some of it and noticed 4 main points against. So I joined the site and responded to those points. I also handled the accusation of "you men just want sex", somewhat. Hopefully that'll get the truth-seekers of that site to listen and take notice of what's being said on the subject. As for the non-truth-seekers... I expect they'll remain the same... like usual.
 
sadanyagci said:
... the accusation of "you men just want sex"
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I keep wanting to answer that one with, "Hunh? I GOT sex! PM would seem to mean that some woman who DOESN'T, will. What's your problem with THAT?!"

Perhaps that is their real objection ... :(
 
You both are doing excellent work over there. I greatly appreciate the help.
 
I've spent a considerable amount of time at the website. And I gotta tell ya, I don't know why they even bother with the bible. A great deal of the posts over there don't contain any scripture or reference to biblical principles but yet the poster will make his statement seem like such a presumed imperative.

In other words, they don't understand what it means to offer a premise and then to illustrate the truth of it using the bible.

Another way of summing it up is that anything goes but the truth.
 
And I gotta tell ya, I don't know why they even bother with the bible. A great deal of the posts over there don't contain any scripture or reference to biblical principles but yet the poster will make his statement seem like such a presumed imperative.
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I gotta admit, MD, that that was the first thing I noticed when I checked the link and started to read. I got so disgusted I almost decided the whole thing was a waste of time, but skipped ahead a bit and saw some posts which seemed to indicate there were a few of the remnant there as well. That was ultimately the only reason I registered, as Sadan did.

I posted quite a bit, of course, and didn't pull any punches - particularly when it comes to the attitude of trivializing God's Word. I don't know whether any follow-up will be worthwhile or not; I will leave that to Him. But it should be clear fairly soon...


Blessings,
Mark
 
Just so you both know, there were things in both of your postings that even I gained from. You presented little nuances that we all need to see to keep the mind fresh.

Mark, you're right about there being a remnant there. We can't get discouraged by the apostates that have bullied their way into controlling the majority of the communications that go on at GCM. The remnant still need to see the light. We can be that light, Lord willing.
 
Thanks, MD.

As I've said before, here and elsewhere, I enjoy the midrash, and there is much to be said for iron sharpening iron, speaking His Truth boldly, reproof instruction, and correction from the Word, and so forth.

But parroting the same discredited arguments over and over without so much as a hint of integrity (much less actual READING, of the posts, OR Scripture) gets old VERY fast...

Have you put a pointer over there yet to a far better site for such genuine midrash - like this one? :)
 
I haven't pointed anyone here yet. But I will. You (and anyone else reading) should do the same.
 
sweetlissa said:
Pardon my ignorance but where is GCM?

SweetLissa
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See the top of the thread for a pointer, Lissa. It's "Grace Centered Ministries", IIRC. I hadn't heard of it either.
 
I stopped posting when I saw all the work towards proving the truth fall to nothing in a matter of minutes. Maybe I'll start up again if something catches my eye, or someone actually shows they care again. But really, MarkC, did you notice that you proved the truth BETWEEN their petty talk and they just glossed right over it as if it didn't exist at all? Might as well be preaching to a paperweight. :(


... and someone just used the grandest argument of all against you. They called you a smarty-pants newbie. God forbid they let a silly thing like truth get in their way. :(
 
I understand, Sadan, and share that frustration. (And I do see the issue of pride as a major one. I'm thankful we don't put those stupid "stars" and "ratings" up here. They seem to mean far more than Scripture to many there.)

But did you ever read a classic article by Albert J. Nock from about a lifetime ago called "Isaiah's Job"?

Back when I was doing my radio show I came across it, and did a whole show on the concept. It has served as a source of inspiration ever since.

In the article, Nock tells the story of Isaiah, in a somewhat cryptic but charming manner:

In the year of Uzziah's death, the Lord commissioned the prophet to go out and warn the people of the wrath to come. "Tell them what a worthless lot they are." He said, "Tell them what is wrong, and why and what is going to happen unless they have a change of heart and straighten up. Don't mince matters. Make it clear that they are positively down to their last chance. Give it to them good and strong and keep on giving it to them. I suppose perhaps I ought to tell you," He added, "that it won't do any good. The official class and their intelligentsia will turn up their noses at you and the masses will not even listen. They will all keep on in their own ways until they carry everything down to destruction, and you will probably be lucky if you get out with your life."

Isaiah had been very willing to take on the job – in fact, he had asked for it – but the prospect put a new face on the situation. It raised the obvious question: Why, if all that were so – if the enterprise were to be a failure from the start – was there any sense in starting it? "Ah," the Lord said, "you do not get the point. There is a Remnant there that you know nothing about. They are obscure, unorganized, inarticulate, each one rubbing along as best he can. They need to be encouraged and braced up because when everything has gone completely to the dogs, they are the ones who will come back and build up a new society; and meanwhile, your preaching will reassure them and keep them hanging on. Your job is to take care of the Remnant, so be off now and set about it."
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Nock goes on to point out that Isaiah doesn't even know who God's Remnant IS, much less where they are. But that doesn't matter. His job is to "tell 'em what God tells 'im to tell 'em!"

For many years I have prayed about and pondered the charge to the "watchman on the wall" to sound the shofar (trumpet) of warning when danger comes. But there is more, I think, for those of us who are called to a task similar to Isaiah's:

We are to take care of His Remnant.

That thread has gotten quiet. Perhaps that is good. I don't know who is reading it, or what they will think of it. But that's not my job, either. My job is just to "speak His Truth boldly", as I ought to.


Blessings,

Mark



Here is the link for any that would like it:
(maybe it even deserves a thread at some point. ;) )

http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig3/nock3b.html
 
One of the tactics that is hard to detect as an actual tactic is to give the
appearance that your teaching is falling on deaf ears. Because they know that
there is no rebuttal anywhere to be found. So instead, they employ a series of what appears
to be coincidental comments meant to discourage.

Discouragement is one of their best weapons. Another is the statement of disbelief:
You don' really believe that do you??? This is meant to bypass an actual discussion by intimidating us into thinking that we are some way off base, far out, extreme minority. It is nothing but an updated version of the playground peer pressure device.

One thing to keep in mind is that we are not hoping to convince the gatekeepers. We want to get around them and to the ones that have not closed their hearts and minds. So you may post something there and it may appear that a ton of resistance comes at ya, but there may be one or two people that hear it and a seed is planted.
Its a slow process and not for the faint of heart. Our job is to sow. Leave the rest to Jehovah.
 
Tunnel vision.. one big thick mess. all I can say. The thickness of cognition over there. WOW. Its like they're all on a combo of prozac and valium. Catatonic.
 
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