Holidays?

[Mark C]

Thank you. Is being Torah observant directly related to not celebrating the holidays? Asking because the people I'm in the group with don't seem to obey any other Torah laws/rules.

Yes, this one is a "Biggie". See, for example, all the places where YHVH says, concerning His 'moedim', or 'set-apart holy days' that these are MY/Mine (not, in other words, "jewish," but His.)

If you'd like to send me a private note, I'm happy to provide LOTS of links to teachings on all of that. He is, IMHO, quite clear that He wants all of us to 'remember' His "appointed times."

One of those, by the way, is coming up soon, as part of His "Fall Feasts," which (for most) started last weekend with the "blowing of the shofar" (aka "Yom Teruah", which 'kicks off the countdown' for the rest.)

Most importantly, and for "an exercise for the reader" - it is in fact pretty easy to show that the Messiah, Yahushua or Yeshua, was NOT born in the dead of winter at the solstice, but during this very time, when "all the men of the land" would have come to Jerusalem, and stayed in "mangers" or "temporary dwellings," aka "sukkot" in the Hebrew, or "tabernacles".

He was almost certainly born on the first day of the Feast of YHVH called "Sukkot," or the Feast of Tabernacles. Once you see it, you can't "unsee it".

There is MUCH more...

 

[Mark C]

“Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭2‬:‭16‬

This, BTW, was a large part of the subject (and the correction ) of the teaching I just did, last weekend, as we enter those "Fall Feasts of YHVH":

Mark Call – ‘Fall Feasts begin’ teachings from Shabbat Shalom Mesa

The time of the Fall Feasts means that the “regular Torah portions” end up getting shuffled a bit, especially given the “calendar variants” many of us see. But as the Torah …

hebrewnationonline.com

Meat - His Fall Feasts, and Colossians 2

Most variants of the Biblical calendar (Hillel/Dispora/rabbinic, sighted new-moon) have the "first trump" that kicks off the countdown for all the remaining moedim for this year beginning this weekend, with "Yom Teruah," the Day of Trumpets, or shouting. This two-part teaching and midrash...

biblicalfamilies.org

This will answer some of the questions you asked, too, @theleastofthese.

 

[The Revolting Man]

Thank you. Is being Torah observant directly related to not celebrating the holidays? Asking because the people I'm in the group with don't seem to obey any other Torah laws/rules.

Torah keepers care very deeply about “holy days”. Sometimes we get a little too wrapped around the axle about them. God is perfectly fine with a themed party for pretty much any reason and or season. I have pretty strong feelings about some of them too though.

Halloween and Easter are very bad and in order to be in fellowship with other Torah keepers we don’t observe Christmas even though most of the claims around it’s pagan origins are completely unverifiable. However, and this applies to most Torah keepers, birthdays, Thanksgiving (damn near venerated) the 4h, Veteran’s Day and the Marine Corps birthday are all perfectly acceptable reasons to celebrate.

 

[NBTX11]

Just do a search on Youtube for 'former witch (or satanist) tells truth about halloween'. They'll tell you what it's really about.

I don't even want to hear them talk. Everything about it repulses me.

 

[NVIII]

birthdays

That's a sneaky one. Most never think to even check it, probably because it's not one fixed day like the others. But it, too, is a pagan holy day. Look into why we give gifts to the birthday boy, sing to him, and he blows out candles.

Candles, btw, especially those that, if you think about them, you can't figure out why they are in the tradition, are a tip-off that there may have been some witchcraft origins to the party. More than likely, if you start asking "why", you're going to find out why about the candles and a lot more.

@leastofthese There are many other remnants of witchcraft and paganism in our society. They're in plain sight, but they are disguised by centuries of alteration and down-play. We are so accustomed to them that mostly we never think about them. For instance, the children's rhyme that begins "eeny meeny miny moe" is a derivation of an incantation that proceeded lot-casting.

A lot of people don't want to hear this stuff, and when they do they would rather not believe it. I agree with @raulus that we are not to fear it or really even consider it to be significant. I think what Paul was saying was that, as children of God, being freed from those chains to darkness, we now have license to look on those things with indifference. They can't hurt us anymore because we don't belong to them. "Where oh death is thy sting?" And, "greater is He that is in you than he that is in the world." If you've ever encountered deeply superstitious people, then you know what true fear of these things looks like.

On the other hand, if you find that you can't research these things without feeling uncomfortable, or if someone even mentioning them causes you to feel anger or fear, then my advice is to both stop and pray, because that would be a sure indicator that your faith is weak, and you might also be hiding idols in your heart. It's not for anyone to know everything, and only you know if it is the Lord who is telling you to look into these things or not. And only He knows why.

For myself, it started out as a curiosity about things that I couldn't explain, but now it has become a seek-and-destroy mission for anything false that's been planted in my mind. This applies to things of the world as well as things of the Word (edit to clarify: man's interpretation of the Word). I hate lies.

Even if you don't actively seek things to question, eventually in your walk with the Lord, you ought to get to the point where, even if you're not doing it regularly, you can ask "why" (and not shrink when others ask "why") about anything with boldness and not fear. The more you do it, the more you'll find out that people can make an idol out of anything, even Bible verses, and asking "why" tends to threaten to topple those idols. The topic of holidays isn't a bad way to build that muscle.

 

[The Revolting Man]

That's a sneaky one. Most never think to even check it, probably because it's not one fixed day like the others. But it, too, is a pagan holy day. Look into why we give gifts to the birthday boy, sing to him, and he blows out candles.

Candles, btw, especially those that, if you think about them, you can't figure out why they are in the tradition, are a tip-off that there may have been some witchcraft origins to the party. More than likely, if you start asking "why", you're going to find out why about the candles and a lot more.

@leastofthese There are many other remnants of witchcraft and paganism in our society. They're in plain sight, but they are disguised by centuries of alteration and down-play. We are so accustomed to them that mostly we never think about them. For instance, the children's rhyme that begins "eeny meeny miny moe" is a derivation of an incantation that proceeded lot-casting.

A lot of people don't want to hear this stuff, and when they do they would rather not believe it. I agree with @raulus that we are not to fear it or really even consider it to be significant. I think what Paul was saying was that, as children of God, being freed from those chains to darkness, we now have license to look on those things with indifference. They can't hurt us anymore because we don't belong to them. "Where oh death is thy sting?" And, "greater is He that is in you than he that is in the world." If you've ever encountered deeply superstitious people, then you know what true fear of these things looks like.

On the other hand, if you find that you can't research these things without feeling uncomfortable, or if someone even mentioning them causes you to feel anger or fear, then my advice is to both stop and pray, because that would be a sure indicator that your faith is weak, and you might also be hiding idols in your heart. It's not for anyone to know everything, and only you know if it is the Lord who is telling you to look into these things or not. And only He knows why.

For myself, it started out as a curiosity about things that I couldn't explain, but now it has become a seek-and-destroy mission for anything false that's been planted in my mind. This applies to things of the world as well as things of the Word (edit to clarify: man's interpretation of the Word). I hate lies.

Even if you don't actively seek things to question, eventually in your walk with the Lord, you ought to get to the point where, even if you're not doing it regularly, you can ask "why" (and not shrink when others ask "why") about anything with boldness and not fear. The more you do it, the more you'll find out that people can make an idol out of anything, even Bible verses, and asking "why" tends to threaten to topple those idols. The topic of holidays isn't a bad way to build that muscle.

Birthdays are not pagan. Just because pagans did something doesn’t mean they did it for pagan reasons. I’ve pointed this out before but it bears repeating; pagans breathe, that doesn’t mean we have to hold our breath.

 

[Mark C]

pagans breathe, that doesn’t mean we have to hold our breath.

BUT:

"...take heed to yourself that you are not ensnared to follow [the pagans and their 'gods'] ...and that you do not inquire after their gods, saying, ‘How did these nations serve their gods? I also will do likewise." (Deuteronomy 12:30 et al)

I note, too, that the reference to Colossians 2:16 often comes up in such a context. But, as I point out in the longer teaching I linked above, there is much of interest about that. Not ONLY is it written to encourage those who are living IN a pagan environment to "come out of" that and "return to YHVH," but the very word used, even in the Greek -

ἑορτή (heortē) (feast day, festival) ​

- is ALWAYS used, explicity and ONLY, to refer to the feasts, or 'moedim' in the Hebrew, of YHVH!

So this rendering should be far more clear, and verifiably accurate: (check a concordance)

"“Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of a feast of YHVH, or of the new moon, or of the Sabbath:”

 

[raulus]

Yeah, with birthdays it is hard to say it itself is pagan. Because how can one's own birth be pagan? Or the counting of years be pagan? That could be misnomer.

It has more to do with how one does birthdays, or how much importance they place on their own birth, that may stem to somewhere else. The practices. Though like with the tree, even if you are doing a birthday exactly like the egyptians you still aren't doing it exactly like the egyptians. There is a world of thought difference between us and them, but I do think it is wise to at least beg the question like with Christmas and the others. If you come to learn something you don't like in the history of how birthdays have been celebrated by people who's gods are not ours, then maybe you can adjust, due to knowledge. Even if just to shift the focus of your birthday more towards Him. To shirk it off altogether would be too dismissive. At least look into it, you know?

Paganism much like feminism can be the blame for many things, and I find it annoying too, but every single practice of man has its origin point somewhere. We are not very original at all.

 

[The Revolting Man]

BUT:

"...take heed to yourself that you are not ensnared to follow [the pagans and their 'gods'] ...and that you do not inquire after their gods, saying, ‘How did these nations serve their gods? I also will do likewise." (Deuteronomy 12:30 et al)

I note, too, that the reference to Colossians 2:16 often comes up in such a context. But, as I point out in the longer teaching I linked above, there is much of interest about that. Not ONLY is it written to encourage those who are living IN a pagan environment to "come out of" that and "return to YHVH," but the very word used, even in the Greek -

ἑορτή (heortē) (feast day, festival) ​

- is ALWAYS used, explicity and ONLY, to refer to the feasts, or 'moedim' in the Hebrew, of YHVH!

So this rendering should be far more clear, and verifiably accurate: (check a concordance)

"“Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of a feast of YHVH, or of the new moon, or of the Sabbath:”

Great verse! Of course it says right there in the verse that it is about actively seeking to follow other gods, so not directly applicable to children’s parties…..

 

[NVIII]

It has more to do with how one does birthdays, or how much importance they place on their own birth, that may stem to somewhere else. The practices. Though like with the tree, even if you are doing a birhday exactly like the egyptians you still aren't doing it exactly like the egyptians. There is a world of thought difference between us and them, but I do think it is wise to at least beg the question like with Christmas and the others. If you come to learn something you don't like in the history of how birthdays have been celebrated by people who's gods are not ours, then maybe you can adjust due to knowledge. Even if just to shift the focus of your birthday more towards Him. To shirk it off altogether would be too dismissive. At least look into it, you know?

Yep. This. Two extra thumbs up

We know the ages of all those people in the genealogies of the Bible. Surely marking off years and breathing is not what is being discussed.

 

[raulus]

Some things to note:

The early Jews didn't celebrate the birth of their children with feasts.

Nay, indeed, the law does not permit us to make festivals at the birth of our children, and thereby afford occasion of drinking to excess (Josephus. Translated by W. Whiston. Against Apion, Book II, Chapter 26. Extracted from Josephus Complete Works, Kregel Publications, Grand Rapids (MI), 14th printing, 1977, p. 632).

In their essay titled "Birthdays, Jewishly," Lisa Farber Miller and Sandra Widener point out that the Encyclopedia Judaica is very blunt on this topic: "The celebration of birthdays is unknown in Jewish ritual"

Satanists say that it is the best day of the year, to mock God. Along with halloween and Walpurgisnacht

"THE highest of all holidays in the Satanic religion is the date of one's own birth. This is in direct contradiction to the holy of holy days of other religions, which deify a particular god who has been created in an anthropomorphic form of their own image, thereby showing that the ego is not really buried.

The Satanist feels: "Why not really be honest and if you are going to create a god in your image, why not create that god as yourself." Every man is a god if he chooses to recognize himself as one. So, the Satanist celebrates his own birthday as the most important holiday of the year. After all, aren't you happier about the fact that you were born than you are about the birth of someone you have never even met? Or for that matter, aside from religious holidays, why pay higher tribute to the birthday of a president or to a date in history than we do to the day we were brought into this greatest of all worlds?

Despite the fact that some of us may not have been wanted, or at least were not particularly planned, we're glad, even if no one else is, that we're here! You should give yourself a pat on the back, buy yourself whatever you want, treat yourself like the king (or god) that you are, and generally celebrate your birthday with as much pomp and ceremony as possible.

After one's own birthday, the two major Satanic holidays are Walpurgisnacht and Halloween (or All Hallows' Eve)."

(Lavey A, Gilmore P. The Satanic Bible.)

Birthdays themselves are heavily linked to astrology. For without the date of your birth, you cannot know your astrological sign. So the cultures who took joy in astrology placed heavy importance on their birthdays.

“The Egyptians… discovered to which of the gods each month and day is sacred; and found out from the day of a man’s birth, what he will meet with in the course of his life, and how he will end his days, and what sort of man he will be” (Herodotus, Persian Wars, Book II, ch. 82)

“Birthdays are intimately linked with the stars, since without the calendar, no one could tell when to celebrate his birthday. They are also indebted to the stars in another way, for in early days the chief importance of birthday records was to enable the astrologers to chart horoscopes” (The Lore of Birthdays, p. 53). Rawlinson’s translation of Herodotus includes the following footnote: “Horoscopes were of very early use in Egypt… and Cicero speaks of the Egyptians and Chaldees predicting… a man’s destiny at his birth"

All of this information I throw out there not to persuade you, but to give you something to think about. It's worth knowing since we're on the topic.

 

[raulus]

I personally treat my own birthday like thanksgiving, and simply give thanks to God for another year of life. For my children I will teach them the same, and to thank God for each other. I never liked feeling like I owed gifts to people once a year, instead of genuinely giving to them because I thought about them. Not putting down anyone's beliefs. Just saying, there are different ways to think about things.

 

[Mark C]

Great verse! Of course it says right there in the verse that it is about actively seeking to follow other gods, so not directly applicable to children’s parties…..

Clever, but not the point, And, neither, really, was "birthdays".

It had to do with a

...group that condemns celebrating holidays. They take issue with most holidays including Christmas...

and, essentially, the question was 'why?' and does it matter.

Some are suggesting that, if we study His Word carefully, we will see that He cares about HIS 'moedim,' very much. I myself suggest that it's got to do with REPLACING what He said to do, forever, with pagan variants, more than a private party for a child.

 

[The Revolting Man]

BUT:

"...take heed to yourself that you are not ensnared to follow [the pagans and their 'gods'] ...and that you do not inquire after their gods, saying, ‘How did these nations serve their gods? I also will do likewise." (Deuteronomy 12:30 et al)

I note, too, that the reference to Colossians 2:16 often comes up in such a context. But, as I point out in the longer teaching I linked above, there is much of interest about that. Not ONLY is it written to encourage those who are living IN a pagan environment to "come out of" that and "return to YHVH," but the very word used, even in the Greek -

ἑορτή (heortē) (feast day, festival) ​

- is ALWAYS used, explicity and ONLY, to refer to the feasts, or 'moedim' in the Hebrew, of YHVH!

So this rendering should be far more clear, and verifiably accurate: (check a concordance)

"“Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of a feast of YHVH, or of the new moon, or of the Sabbath:”

And remember, pagans incorporated all sorts of things into their religions that we’re commanded to do; like eating and drinking and having sex and birthing children. If we eschewed every single thing some benighted pagan stupidly incorporated into some made up, mumbo jumbo ritual we would be unable to do a thing.

The deciding factor her is if we are honoring or acknowledging or participating deliberately ourselves in an act of worship to a false god.

 

[The Revolting Man]

Clever, but not the point, And, neither, really, was "birthdays".

It had to do with a

and, essentially, the question was 'why?' and does it matter.

Some are suggesting that, if we study His Word carefully, we will see that He cares about HIS 'moedim,' very much. I myself suggest that it's got to do with REPLACING what He said to do, forever, with pagan variants, more than a private party for a child.

It was clever and the point was literally birthdays, so completely the point. Maybe you were wanting to talk about a different point?

 

[theleastofthese]

I just wanted to thank everyone for this discussion!

I'm reading it all and considering many views as well as looking into everything mentioned. It's quite interesting and eye-opening even if I don't necessarily agree.

 

[Mark C]

The deciding factor her is if we are honoring or acknowledging or participating deliberately ourselves in an act of worship to a false god.

And, remember that He is not at all shy about telling us HOW He wants His worship to happen, and in no uncertain terms how He does NOT.

PS> And where many, including myself, would differ, is the question of whether said "participation" must be 'deliberate' in order to be offensive to Him. It seems to me that He repeatedly says otherwise.

I doubt that "Gee, I didn't know she was MARRIED," would carry much weight, either.

 

[steve]

I don’t see birthdays as paganism, I see them as narcissism.

 

[theleastofthese]

I don’t see birthdays as paganism, I see them as narcissism.

Don't even get me started on how many "boss bitches" in my family have "birthday weekends" and "birthday months"

 

[Joleneakamama]

Don't even get me started on how many "boss bitches" in my family have "birthday weekends" and "birthday months"

I have a sis that makes a point of getting every Free offer she can on her birthday, from frozen yogurt to a steak dinner....a free doughnut or sub sandwich?

I guess she feels accomplished?

I have never gotten anything that way.

We do celebrate birthdays. Angels sang when Yeshua was born. I don't have any problem celebrating those natal anniversaries. A child being born healthy is a precious gift. Each year we live is also something to be thankful for. I never heard anything bad about candles.. or thought about the why. In our family when I was young mom would let us choose our favorite cake....we had ice cream. Presents were always minimal.
It's the same for our children.