How do you, the women of this forum get over the "unfairness" of patriarchy, especially polygyny?

[paterfamilias]

I enjoy the posting on this site and the subject matter here has been very open. As I'm getting used to checking the notifications. I have not been present as often as I hope to be in the future. With that said , I have three wonderful wives and am 68 years young. The wisdom here far surpasses anywhere I've looked, men and women. Thank Ya that he has given us a book to follow. Job laments the fact that his adversary has not written a book.(Job 31:35) But we know in these end times our adversary is getting more aggressive in our culture and an actual working knowledge of THE Book and Spirit aids us.
As I mostly stay in the background here because I'm a Pastor and I already talk too much. ( As has been said, "Put two pastors [or rabbis] in one room you have at least three opinions.")
Although my 3 brides are mainly of my generation, our fellowship has younger wives that are on both sides of this conversation.
The integrity of The Word is always at stake as we grow in Him. Does He say what He means and mean what He says? The gospel song states when one has come to the right conclusion he is then humbled by the wisdom he now understands honestly. "then I trembled at the law I'd spurned!"
I'm realizing now for me , it takes a lot more faith to disbelieve His Word than to actually take it literally whenever possible. I have had to unlearn much of what churchiology and tradition have taught me.
I didn't have elders to pass on this Polygyny experience to me yet now in all the capable hearts here I realize He is definitely expanding this and it will be commonplace as more men stand up when they are called. You are all to be commended, men and women.

If you have not done so, should post much of that as an introduction thread

 

[The Revolting Man]

his income is sufficient for the family he has and more.

This. I am working on a post about this.

 

[Rainmakerjgc]

Yet, who in the culture at large will tell women that if they aren't lovable, their husbands won't love them? I mean, people are what people are, right? A man ought to love his woman regardless, but can you really blame him for not loving a surly, provoking, nagging woman?

I posit no one will say such a thing to any significant audience of even Christian women, much less, non-believers. It seems everyone focuses on the men and their lack of leadership, and no one wants to highlight women and their lack of submission or "lovable-ness".

Here is some practical advice for women: be in subjection to your husbands, be lovable, be desirable, be the kind of wife he can easily and joyfully lead.

 

[Rainmakerjgc]

I posit no one will say such a thing to any significant audience of even Christian women, much less, non-believers. It seems everyone focuses on the men and their lack of leadership, and no one wants to highlight women and their lack of submission or "lovable-ness".

To this point. A leader cannot lead a follower who refuses to follow any more and a follower can follow a leader who refuses to lead.

 

[PastorLarry]

I keep running into this trope with patriarchal men who think that authority is something that is given to them. It is not.

Taking women out of the discussion for the moment let's look at authority of men over other men and how that works.

In the military a man might be commissioned as an officer and by a consequence of being an officer he has command over other men. That's nice but it still isn't authority. Authority is the outcome of credibility.

Credible officers have authority over their men. Officers who lack credibility will not have authority and instead will have to deal with varying degrees of mutiny, some overt and some subtle. In any case they most certainly do not have authority over their men.

Apply this principle to a family.

A man who provides for his first wife, takes good care of their children, his house is in order, his income is sufficient for the family he has and more.

That man's first wife will know he's a good man who cares about her and her kids and she'll know that there will be no horrible downside to taking in a plural. Because her husband is credible and she willingly submits to his authority.

The next man can't keep a job or the job he has barely keeps the family financially solvent. There are a lot of bills to pay. There are debts to pay. He's not involved with the children. He neglects his obligations around the house, he neglects his first wife. This man has no credibility and his wife does not willingly submit to or even tolerate his claimed authority. He tells his first wife he wants to take on a plural and his first wife questions his motives, she questions his ability to support another wife, and she refuses to simply go along with what is measurably a bad idea.

Too many of you guys just don't get it when it comes to God putting a mantle of authority on you. Authority from God is not a gift, it is a responsibility.

God demands that men of authority be better men than other men.

In the modern world a man who wants to take more than one wife must be an extraordinary man and not just your average man who works from paycheck to paycheck and is saddled with student loans, car loans, a mortgage, credit card debts, and etc.

The Parable of the Talents very much applies here. If you can make much of what God gives you then you will be trusted with more. If you can't handle what you have then why should you be trusted with more?

Good men have no problem with God's requirements of them. We have plenty of examples of good men on this forum and I recommend that any man who wants to add to his family first consult with these good men.

As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another. - Proverbs 27:17

Seek out these Men of Iron and learn from them. Join them and become a Man of Iron and you'll no longer wonder about authority because it will simply become the natural outcome of your credibility.

I will close with this: Every man I have ever known who complains about how no one recognizes his authority has none.

Men of Iron who hold authority never complain about it because the people around them see it and readily accept it. It is simply a fact and not anything up for discussion or debate.

I know your comments here are 18 months or so old. But that doesn't take away from their truthfulness. I just now have had the opportunity to read them. You are obviously some man's great wife. Though I never exercised my authority, I really never felt comfortable doing so. I HATE lording power over another, even though I have had several very successful businesses and several successful Churches, I just couldn't and for that matter never needed to exercise power over anyone. To have exercised power over my one wife could have been done, but what good would it have been? I think my success as a businessman and as a pastor were partially BECAUSE I was patient. My lack of success as a husband of one I don't think had anything to do with or with not exercising authority. God can MAKE us do whatever He wants us to do. But most of the time He awaits our willingness to be obedient. He should be our example.

 

[MeganC]

I know your comments here are 18 months or so old. But that doesn't take away from their truthfulness. I just now have had the opportunity to read them. You are obviously some man's great wife. Though I never exercised my authority, I really never felt comfortable doing so. I HATE lording power over another, even though I have had several very successful businesses and several successful Churches, I just couldn't and for that matter never needed to exercise power over anyone. To have exercised power over my one wife could have been done, but what good would it have been? I think my success as a businessman and as a pastor were partially BECAUSE I was patient. My lack of success as a husband of one I don't think had anything to do with or with not exercising authority.

Thank you Pastor Larry.

My only correction here is that I was not some man's great wife but that I had the privilege of being the wife of a great man. Steve went home to Our Lord last October.

I HATE lording power over another

This is typically one of the hallmarks of great men. Authority is a sword in their hands and great men will use it only when necessary. Weak men use it too much.

God can MAKE us do whatever He wants us to do. But most of the time He awaits our willingness to be obedient. He should be our example.

Again, you exemplify the foundations of a great man, one who need not remind anyone of his obvious authority.

 

[frederick]

I was not some man's great wife but that I had the privilege of being the wife of a great man.

Wow, I love that!

 

[PastorLarry]

I keep running into this trope with patriarchal men who think that authority is something that is given to them. It is not.

Taking women out of the discussion for the moment let's look at authority of men over other men and how that works.

In the military a man might be commissioned as an officer and by a consequence of being an officer he has command over other men. That's nice but it still isn't authority. Authority is the outcome of credibility.

Credible officers have authority over their men. Officers who lack credibility will not have authority and instead will have to deal with varying degrees of mutiny, some overt and some subtle. In any case they most certainly do not have authority over their men.

Apply this principle to a family.

A man who provides for his first wife, takes good care of their children, his house is in order, his income is sufficient for the family he has and more.

That man's first wife will know he's a good man who cares about her and her kids and she'll know that there will be no horrible downside to taking in a plural. Because her husband is credible and she willingly submits to his authority.

The next man can't keep a job or the job he has barely keeps the family financially solvent. There are a lot of bills to pay. There are debts to pay. He's not involved with the children. He neglects his obligations around the house, he neglects his first wife. This man has no credibility and his wife does not willingly submit to or even tolerate his claimed authority. He tells his first wife he wants to take on a plural and his first wife questions his motives, she questions his ability to support another wife, and she refuses to simply go along with what is measurably a bad idea.

Too many of you guys just don't get it when it comes to God putting a mantle of authority on you. Authority from God is not a gift, it is a responsibility.

God demands that men of authority be better men than other men.

In the modern world a man who wants to take more than one wife must be an extraordinary man and not just your average man who works from paycheck to paycheck and is saddled with student loans, car loans, a mortgage, credit card debts, and etc.

The Parable of the Talents very much applies here. If you can make much of what God gives you then you will be trusted with more. If you can't handle what you have then why should you be trusted with more?

Good men have no problem with God's requirements of them. We have plenty of examples of good men on this forum and I recommend that any man who wants to add to his family first consult with these good men.

As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another. - Proverbs 27:17

Seek out these Men of Iron and learn from them. Join them and become a Man of Iron and you'll no longer wonder about authority because it will simply become the natural outcome of your credibility.

I will close with this: Every man I have ever known who complains about how no one recognizes his authority has none.

Men of Iron who hold authority never complain about it because the people around them see it and readily accept it. It is simply a fact and not anything up for discussion or debate.

MeganC, you should be a Counsellor and/or writer. You have great understanding. When I first found someone besides me who had become poly or believed in poly, I believe his name was Mark something and he believed and promoted "no force". I think the website was called Biblical Polygamy. I believe he is/was right about the "no force". I forget now his story but if a man has to force his wife/wives to obedience, he cannot be much of a man. Like me! Though I have certainly never tried to force my Ex to do anything, I often fear I am not much of a man. In the first place force would have only created a greater chasm. In the second place, that is just not me and it wasn't him. You have a unique way of looking at things, and a great way of explaining what you mean. Call me impressed!

 

[MeganC]

MeganC, you should be a Counsellor and/or writer. You have great understanding.

Thank you. You're just getting to know me so trust me when I say there are times when I am not a lot of fun to be around and I don't just mean three days out of the month.

 

[PastorLarry]

Thank you. You're just getting to know me so trust me when I say there are times when I am not a lot of fun to be around and I don't just mean three days out of the month.

Three? THREE??? My Ex always explained I couldn't touch her for 20 days a month. Now you are telling me THREE DAYS? Don't tell me I was lied to about all that!

 

[steve]

Three? THREE??? My Ex always explained I couldn't touch her for 20 days a month. Now you are telling me THREE DAYS? Don't tell me I was lied to about all that!

See what fun things you learn here?

 

[NBTX11]

I forget now his story but if a man has to force his wife/wives to obedience, he cannot be much of a man.

What do you mean by force? Physical force? I would agree with you. It’s ok to compel obedience by however by managing your household well. For example, wife is in disobedience to the word. Perhaps she’s spending money unauthorized and running up bills, even after being told not to. Compel obedience by allowing or not allowing certain things to occur in household (take away a privilege, credit cards, ensure household duties are done, etc).

Wife has free will to obey but you can guide or compel her to in other ways than physical force. I would use all of these sparingly though. A loving hand is a better first option.

 

[frederick]

What do you mean by force? Physical force? I would agree with you. It’s ok to compel obedience by however by managing your household well. For example, wife is in disobedience to the word. Perhaps she’s spending money unauthorized and running up bills, even after being told not to. Compel obedience by allowing or not allowing certain things to occur in household (take away a privilege, credit cards, ensure household duties are done, etc).

Wife has free will to obey but you can guide or compel her to in other ways than physical force. I would use all of these sparingly though. A loving hand is a better first option.

Heck, I'd offer her a good spanking if she did whatever was wanted.... that's sure to get obedience.

 

[The Revolting Man]

MeganC, you should be a Counsellor and/or writer. You have great understanding. When I first found someone besides me who had become poly or believed in poly, I believe his name was Mark something and he believed and promoted "no force". I think the website was called Biblical Polygamy. I believe he is/was right about the "no force". I forget now his story but if a man has to force his wife/wives to obedience, he cannot be much of a man. Like me! Though I have certainly never tried to force my Ex to do anything, I often fear I am not much of a man. In the first place force would have only created a greater chasm. In the second place, that is just not me and it wasn't him. You have a unique way of looking at things, and a great way of explaining what you mean. Call me impressed!

You’re thinking of The National Polygamy Advocate. The capitalization is his and he even trademarked it. I can’t remember his last name either but some one will tell us what it is shortly.

He’s still around the last I heard and is kind of an interesting man. He deserves a lot of credit for being so publicly vocal so early on in the movement.

 

[PastorLarry]

You’re thinking of The National Polygamy Advocate. The capitalization is his and he even trademarked it. I can’t remember his last name either but some one will tell us what it is shortly.

He’s still around the last I heard and is kind of an interesting man. He deserves a lot of credit for being so publicly vocal so early on in the movement.

Somehow that doesn't sound right, but if they trademarked it, it surely must be. I'll see what I can find on the internet. Thanks!!!

Yes, it was soon after I became convinced Polygyny was Biblical that I started seeking someone who agreed with me. We developed kind of an internet friendship, though as now, I was not poly, but I sure loved talking to someone who was. If I recall he had two wives, and those two wives had found a third for him, as a surprise. Oh to have had a wife or wives like them. Then I became kind of a big shot in the Iowa Republican Party for maybe ten years and realized I had lost all track of him. That too has been quite a while back.

 

[PastorLarry]

Somehow that doesn't sound right, but if they trademarked it, it surely must be. I'll see what I can find on the internet. Thanks!!!

Yes, it was soon after I became convinced Polygyny was Biblical that I started seeking someone who agreed with me. We developed kind of an internet friendship, though as now, I was not poly, but I sure loved talking to someone who was. If I recall he had two wives, and those two wives had found a third for him, as a surprise. Oh to have had a wife or wives like them. Then I became kind of a big shot in the Iowa Republican Party for maybe ten years and realized I had lost all track of him. That too has been quite a while back.

I wonder that you call yourself Revolting Man. You are certainly not one to pick a fight nor to be unkind whilst in a fight. But anyway - that's not the reason for this post.

You were right - it is Mark HENKEL. National Polygamy Advocate. This is not the site as I remember it, but I am quite certain it is the same person. I agree that Poly mandates Patriarchy. But it does not have to be, nor indeed should be forced authority. I believe the phrase he used then, appears to be the way he is still saying it is "LOVE NOT FORCE". That probably had/has much to do with the fact that I did not act on my wife's lack of feeling toward me and unwillingness to follow Scriptural mandates, although I am not one to hurt another if it can be helped. But I will say this - I still love the woman as much as she has hurt me. I don't blame Mark for that - I'm sure if I had been fully listening to the "still small voice" of the Lord I would have heard him more clearly. Had I not gotten so politically involved for those next 10 or 12 years, that too might have given me "ears to hear."

 

[PastorLarry]

I wonder that you call yourself Revolting Man. You are certainly not one to pick a fight nor to be unkind whilst in a fight. But anyway - that's not the reason for this post.

You were right - it is Mark HENKEL. National Polygamy Advocate. This is not the site as I remember it, but I am quite certain it is the same person. I agree that Poly mandates Patriarchy. But it does not have to be, nor indeed should be forced authority. I believe the phrase he used then, appears to be the way he is still saying it is "LOVE NOT FORCE". That probably had/has much to do with the fact that I did not act on my wife's lack of feeling toward me and unwillingness to follow Scriptural mandates, although I am not one to hurt another if it can be helped. But I will say this - I still love the woman as much as she has hurt me. I don't blame Mark for that - I'm sure if I had been fully listening to the "still small voice" of the Lord I would have heard him more clearly. Had I not gotten so politically involved for those next 10 or 12 years, that too might have given me "ears to hear."

TruthBearer - that was the name of his original organization and that site still exists. Ohhhh how much I have forgotten over the years.

 

[The Revolting Man]

TruthBearer - that was the name of his original organization and that site still exists. Ohhhh how much I have forgotten over the years.

Maybe Henkel started using the “Love not force” line after he heard it from somewhere else. I remember that website too and now that I think about it Henkel might not have been involved with it initially.

 

[The Revolting Man]

Maybe Henkel started using the “Love not force” line after he heard it from somewhere else. I remember that website too and now that I think about it Henkel might not have been involved with it initially.

@Joleneakamama has been around the movement for a long time and she might remember.

 

[Joleneakamama]

@Joleneakamama has been around the movement for a long time and she might remember.

Not really sure about who had it first. There were other polygyny sites, but this one is by far the best.