CecilW said:
sicouple said:
In fact as men are given a place of headship, I don't believe he ever has the right to blame anything on his wife. If our home is not in order the fault of that falls on the husband because he is the leader of that home.. ... If we fail in that and the actions we chose to try and accomplish that didn't work for us, we are to blame for that because we were in a position of deciding what actions should be taken. Not only have we failed ourselves before God but we will have failed those He gave us to lead also..
Pretty categorical statement. Completely relieves the woman of any responsibility. She can merely refuse to accept what she doesn't like, and he's stuck forever searching for a way to "get through". She can throw tantrums and objects, and it is his fault, 'cause he's the head? And if he doesn't succeed with her it is a failure of his headship, automatically, every time?
I'm wondering what error in headship YHWH made with Lucifer and 1/3 of the angels? Hey, there was a headship relationship that didn't work out. Was the error with Father God? Or are some folks just determined to cause disruption until they get their own way, then blame their head for not bowing to their own determined selves?
Your statements, taken to their logical conclusion, accuse God of failing with Lucifer and the angels. Ted's point was that when God or husband has done all that he can do to facilitate the relationship, providing love and good communication, some level of responsibility does lie with the other party. And the results of the Other's choice can be beautiful or ugly, attractive or revolting, and that the Other gets both the choice and the responsibility when the head has done what he should.
Or should God have said, "Well, I guess I'm just a failure at communicating and loving, Lucifer. Here. You take over."?
Well, if God created something and gets the credit for it being good because He created it. If there must be blame assigned, for something created with a different purpose then we were created for, Who should get that blame? Who created that? The Bible makes it clear that we are saved by grace and no one deserves salvation on their own merit. Think about that.. Neither the saved or non saved deserve salvation. Why then are some "chosen" and some not? God is keeping His promises and saving His because He is faithful to His word and he said he would. God made the vessels of Honor and dishonor for His own pleasure and purpose. There really is no point in hating the vessels of dishonor because the Father has made them that way. He can make servants out of stones if He wanted to, He could have destroyed all the evil of the earth at any time.. He didn't because that wasn't His plan. Yes, the evil or vessels of dishonor are apart of His plan too. If not we must conclude that He isn't in fact in control as He says He is.
Paul said he seen his walk as a race.. He said he would run as if to win that race. He could have walked and slumbered along and fought God the entire time but he would still have finished that race. Both the wife and husband should see their walk the same way. If God gave the wive to that man and she believes God told her to summit unto and follow him then why fight it? When she does she makes both her life harder and that of her headship.
I never said the husband should give up and just follow the wife, he would be a terrible husband if he did that, not caring about whats best for his wife or God. My main point point is, if we are to love the wife as we love ourselves as the Bible commands, giving up on them should be the same as if we were to give up on our self. When one of His sheep ran off and get lost, Christ made it clear that He will go get that sheep. Why? because it is His sheep! He says He wont lose even one that He died for to the devil. He says nothing is strong enough to take even 1 He shed His blood to redeem. Yes if He lost even one to the devil then he would have failed. He was appointed the Shepherd of His Fathers sheep. We are in His care, He must tend to all the sheep, every single one without fail and He will, Praise God.
Obviously there are some goats that pose as sheep, I think this is where the confusion is coming in. Christ recognized the goats right off and told them where their place was. So I guess if a man felt He made a mistake and was shacking up with a goat, he would be free from caring for that woman because He was never charged with caring for her because God would never have joined a sheep with a goat. However, if God gave you your wife, she is a sheep. He asked you to hoe that row. If we at any point for any reason turn to him and say, we couldn't do it Father, we will have failed in the task he gave us.. All the reasons why we couldn't do it are just excuses and He is going to say, you were not worthy of tending one of my sheep. I gave you the right tools to do the job I asked you to do! I gave you the instructions of how to use those tools! A good husbandmen would have read my instructions and even asked others how to use the tools to get the job done, instead you bring me excuses.
At one time Adam did turn to God and say "it was the fault of the woman that you gave me!" God turned to her and made it clear she would not be in a position of doing that again. He then put the responsibility on Adam to watch out for both of them. Paul tells us the women proved to be the weaker flesh and the man is to be mindful of that and watch out for her. Adam no longer has a claim in blaming the woman the Father gave him.
When you think about it, woman's biggest weakness is also her biggest strength. There can't be 2 heads.. God instilled in woman the ability to follow, so the 2 could have a peaceful loving productive union as 1. The union being peaceful or not hinges on that ability. That ability also makes her more acceptable to following the instruction of the wicked. Its not like Paul was telling the man we should see the woman as any less then us, we were to simply know and understand, that is how she was made and if we don't acknowledge that there is going to be trouble for both of us. Knowing she is created with the ability to follow, we have to become her head so she will follow us instead of the world. We have to be the greatest thing in her life, commend the most respect, if she respects you above everything else in her life, she will follow you. If you send your wife off to learn about the Father from a church or her friends, you can bet she will follow that preacher or her friends over you because she will have more respect for them as a teacher. Those speaking the loudest are heard over those who choose to remain silent or just don't have anything to say at all. Why do you think women are drawn to men with confidence? can someone be followed that don't even respect or trust in himself? If he can't even lead himself, how is he possible going to lead you? lol
Can you choose to respect and trust someone enough to lead you? I mean seriously? Or do you respect them instinctively because of who they are, who they have shown you to be? The woman that tries to force respect onto someone don't really respect them.. She may respect herself enough to tell herself to follow but she is actuality following herself. She can't make herself truly respect her husband no more then he can make her respect him. All women are of course different, but if we as men get to know that women and we truly care about her as ourselves. We will be able to learn the things needed for her to instinctively respect us. This is not just listening to what she says but getting to know her better then herself.
