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how does wife #1 stay attractive to her husband???

tedjohnson

New Member
from a practical perspective ...

after the revelation of PM (and ALL that comes with that), if its common for wife #1's role to change and blossom into a secure, confident woman that can share her husband, and if this new role is in fact how she obtains her beauty from here on out while now past her solely physical prime, then it's hers to lose or gain should her man, her husband, her leader fall in love with another woman and want to add this other woman to the family in order to grow his family

but if wife #1 chooses to reject and lose this new beauty she could have grown into, and thereby become eve more beautiful than she was on her wedding day, then although it would be no wonder that her man, her husband, her leader no longer finds her as attractive b/c she left the crown that was rightfully hers (and, true, it would have been obtained by fire, but she could have wore it none the less), this good man will stay by his wife, and love his wife so long as she chooses to stay by him, all be it unattractive
 
I have said it many times, attitude is everything. I mean that on both sides. Husband has certain responsibilities as does wife. Hubby cannot diminish her from her "marital duty." Most of us on this board consider that to be sex. So this means that the husband can't diminsh that even if he does find her unattractive at times.

I believe that if each of us is accountable to God about our relationships, then the effect of that will radiate out onto the other members of the household and other close relationships as well. I have seen this work out in my family, just by maintaining my positive attitude no matter what is going on around me.

I know from my women's group that we women pretty much know how to get what we want from our husbands in terms of "marital duty." My question to the husbands is "do you know how to get what you want from your wife?"

1. Are you attentive to her?
2. Do you pay attention to your bodily hygiene?
3. Do you treat her with respect?
4. Do you help her be as stress free as possible?
5. Are you as sensitive to her needs as you wish her to be to yours?
6. Are you missing her signals?

If you are not satisfied with your wife (first, tenth or 15th) then you may be doing something wrong. We are of one flesh. That means what you (male or female) do affects the rest of the flesh. So it is up to each person to be accountable to God for their behavior and attitude.

By the way, I didn't mean for this to be directly at the writer of the OP but to anyone whose heart might be a bit convicted."

SweetLissa
 
tedjohnson said:
from a practical perspective ...

after the revelation of PM (and ALL that comes with that), if its common for wife #1's role to change and blossom into a secure, confident woman that can share her husband, and if this new role is in fact how she obtains her beauty from here on out while now past her solely physical prime, then it's hers to lose or gain should her man, her husband, her leader fall in love with another woman and want to add this other woman to the family in order to grow his family

but if wife #1 chooses to reject and lose this new beauty she could have grown into, and thereby become eve more beautiful than she was on her wedding day, then although it would be no wonder that her man, her husband, her leader no longer finds her as attractive b/c she left the crown that was rightfully hers (and, true, it would have been obtained by fire, but she could have wore it none the less), this good man will stay by his wife, and love his wife so long as she chooses to stay by him, all be it unattractive

Wow....just...wow.

Kudos to Sweetlissa though attitude is everything!! Such an Entitlement attitude as evidenced in the OP is NOT attractive.

B
 
tedjohnson said:
but if wife #1 chooses to reject and lose this new beauty she could have grown into, ...albeit unattractive

Isabella, and Lissa:

Your points are well taken. Perhaps Mr Ted could have done a better job of emphasizing his main point / condition, but it WAS there.

How about if we say,
"Despite husband having practiced the items on Lissa's list for an extended period of time, so that their relationship has been renewed and revived to considerably higher levels than before, if wife#1 chooses to oppose and reject and throw fits and make scenes and demand and whine and complain, facts are facts.

She is, by her own choices, rejecting the crown of even greater beauty available to her, and in it's place creating a persona which her husband will eventually inevitably dread to face each morning. He may 'stick it out' out of his own devotion to God and his principles regarding family, but she will have lost her attractiveness in his eyes.

Au contraire, if she ejects all bitterness from her heart, and opens herself completely to the new appropriate forms of love which are inherent in this lifestyle, he is likely to see her as even more attractive than ever and on absolutely every level."

If he said it that way would that make it more acceptable?

Ted, is this by chance what you were intending to convey?

Sir BumbleBerry, the Mars - Venus Translator :roll: :lol: (Psssst! Don't tell Cecil!)
 
Is that Martian??? :o

Please tell me no? *cries*

B
 
Isabella said:
Is that Martian??? :o
Please tell me no? *cries*

Well, hmmm. Doesn't answer the question. I suspect that this is what Ted was trying to say.

Do I hear a rebuttal, other than "Try harder! It's your job to win us over no matter how hard, long, or violently we resist." or "That's obnoxious. We women don't like that and will think less of you for saying it."?

Just curious. Maybe it is the concept itself that Venus resents, no matter how carefully stated.
 
Actually, having read the book in question (Mars/Venus etc) I am not fond of relying on it too much as an excuse for poor communication in general but yes, you probably are right that it is the concept that I have a problem with.

:D
 
Isabella said:
Actually, having read the book in question (Mars/Venus etc) I am not fond of relying on it too much as an excuse for poor communication in general but yes, you probably are right that it is the concept that I have a problem with.

Ok. Delete the Mars - Venus translation reference. Wasn't relevant to the point.

I will buy that the concept itself is unattractive to you and perhaps to many women.

But what is that concept distilled? It is that while men have a duty to do their part (Lissa's list), women also bear responsibility. And if they make ugly choices, that is eventually going to have ugly effects, even with a man who is dedicated and trying hard. While if they make lovely choices, the results will be lovely.

Distilled to one sentence, Women have a level of control and responsibility for the long term result in their relationship as well.

Sorry if you or anyone else is uncomfortable with that. We can, of course, agree to disagree. But I believe that the concept is absolutely correct.

That belief is, of course, rooted in my beliefs about Christianity. God initiates the relationship with us and did so both in our creation and in Christ's incarnation here on earth. But we have a part to play in the relationship as well. If we choose to respond negatively, we will eventually be allowed to go our own way (to everlasting death.) Or we can choose to respond positively and grow in grace, and beauty of character with a long-term result of eternal life in relationship with God.

Note that Mr Ted isn't talking about the occasional bad day. He seems to be talking about a continued policy of bucking the husband's decision, dramatically, and the logical consequences thereof. The Bible says that we reap what we sow. If you're not particularly Biblical in orientation, I believe that Buddhism says something similar. And isn't it Physics that says that for every action there is an appropriate reaction? Pretty much what the OP says, isn't it? I don't much like gravity either at times, but it still applies.
 
First of all Cecil, I wasn't criticizing anyone. Please note the last sentence of my post. I was simply pointing out (as I have on numerous occassions) that each of us has our own set of issues that we have to be accountable for. You know me Cec, I call it what it is. I have and do tell the women about having good attitudes. I just wanted to point out that the same goes on all members.

SweetLissa
 
sweetlissa said:
I have and do tell the women about having good attitudes. I just wanted to point out that the same goes on all members.
True, true. Understood. And I admire and agree with your list. If I misunderstood YOUR point, I apologize. I do that from time to time. *sigh*

My main concern for was Bels, that either Ted or I might be about to inadvertently make her head explode again. :)

You're both good people in my book, with whom I dearly enjoy conversing.
 
Cecil and Lissa, I must agree with you both.


I believe Cecil you may have re worded Mr. Teds OP to (IMO) make more sense.

We are all/each responsible for our attitudes. I believe that if a wife is given a fair/fighting chance to accept PM then you shouldn't have anything to worry about.

My DH has told me that no matter my physical attributes I'll always be lovely to him. God created women to be lovely. We are born seeking that affirmation from our fathers first and spouses second.

as Cecil said " Distilled to one sentence, Women have a level of control and responsibility for the long term result in their relationship as well."

However as a husband it helps us wives to know you support us and love us NO matter what! ;)
 
CecilW said:
sweetlissa said:
I have and do tell the women about having good attitudes. I just wanted to point out that the same goes on all members.
True, true. Understood. And I admire and agree with your list. If I misunderstood YOUR point, I apologize. I do that from time to time. *sigh*

My main concern for was Bels, that either Ted or I might be about to inadvertently make her head explode again. :)

You're both good people in my book, with whom I dearly enjoy conversing.

Thanks Cecil, don't worry, I might not agree with the OP, but my head is not at risk of exploding just yet. I am just dismayed that so often we find men turn up on Polygamy forums, full of all the excitement of it all and instead of concentrating on what THEY have to do to be a capable husband of a Polygamous family, they are all too willing to find faults with reluctant spouses and that is something I find distressing, not just as a woman who wishes to live confidentially and secure in a Poly relationship, but also for the wider community which is far too often accused of being insensitive to the needs of women.

B
 
tedjohnson said:
from a practical perspective ...

after the revelation of PM (and ALL that comes with that), if its common for wife #1's role to change and blossom into a secure, confident woman that can share her husband, and if this new role is in fact how she obtains her beauty from here on out while now past her solely physical prime, then it's hers to lose or gain should her man, her husband, her leader fall in love with another woman and want to add this other woman to the family in order to grow his family

but if wife #1 chooses to reject and lose this new beauty she could have grown into, and thereby become eve more beautiful than she was on her wedding day, then although it would be no wonder that her man, her husband, her leader no longer finds her as attractive b/c she left the crown that was rightfully hers (and, true, it would have been obtained by fire, but she could have wore it none the less), this good man will stay by his wife, and love his wife so long as she chooses to stay by him, all be it unattractive

I believe I understand what your saying here and I think I understand why it came across negatively to the ladies.. I think, as with most disagreements with men and woman the truth gets lost in translation. Instead of pointing fingers at one side or the other I'll just say this. The burden of communication rests with the party who has something to say. More times then not, this fact is overlooked. We will say something to a loved one in our words with our understanding, then get upset that the person we were trying to communicate with didn't receive or understand the message we were trying to deliver. This applies for both men and women, anyone that has ever been upset with the thought of "they just don't get me" has been guilty of this.

I believe this didn't set right with the ladies because they felt you were coming from a place of entitlement. It’s harder then it should be to talk about things your not happy with without coming across that way but none the less, we have to recognize that is the way it is and try to avoid it from happening because as soon as it feels the person is coming from a position of entitlement, the one in question immediately goes on the defensive. Then they start pointing out what they feel they are entitled to and all hope for a resolution is lost. As we build trust in how the other feels for us, this normally gets easier.


Now I believe the point you were trying to make was ironically the same the ladies were trying to make. If a person acts and or treats you ugly that is not attractive. Likewise, if they act and or treat you desirable that is attractive. That sounds simple and it is but more times then not when there is a problem its because someone feels they were being treated ugly/badly. The person that made the other feel that way should feel bad for hurting someone they love on accident. When the person that hurt us don’t seem to feel bad but instead gets angry at us for being hurt, we immediately fight the urge to believe they did it on purpose.

This is why I don’t believe you should ever bring problems up while angry or upset. I believe if we get angry for the way someone is treating us it is a selfish emotion. I know most people justify feeling that way but it is selfish nonetheless. When someone gets angry for the way they are being treated they are coming from a position of self-entitlement. They are saying, “I shouldn’t have to put up with this!” “I deserve to be treated better then this!” “You are not giving me what I deserve!” We have all justified feeling that way at times but what do we really deserve? Unless the love we gave came with conditions of receiving something in return, we don’t deserve anything because nothing is “owed” unto us. If we are loving unconditionally then we can hope that will be returned but we can’t “expect” it to be returned or we weren’t loving unconditionally. AS soon as you start laying down conditions for your love and treatment toward your husband/wife, you can be sure they will start laying down their conditions as well. And by all rights they should.

If we are angry and treating them badly because we feel we deserve to be treated better, then by that logic wouldn’t they then have the right to get angry for they way we are now treating them?

Here is one thing I never understood and seemed to defy all logic. If a wife is angry with her husband for not paying her enough attention or making her feel special/desirable, then proceeds to treat him ugly. All that does is make her less desirable to him. No one wants to spend time with someone that is angry and going to be mean/belittling with you. The person doing that is ugly and not attractive at all. There is no way acting like that will trigger a response of seeing her beauty. The only thing you can do at that point is take everything she is saying and doing with a grain of salt. “She is not that ugly” “that is not really her” “she can’t really mean that”. Then it seems that is grounds for further reason for her to get angry because “he is not listening” “he is not taking it to heart” “he is not accepting how upset I am”. If he accepted all those things what would he really be accepting? Instead of looking past all that ugly and seeing her beauty, he would be accepting she really is that ugly person she is trying so hard to convince him of.

It would seem to me if a person wanted to get more positive attention from someone, the only logical way to get it is to do something you know will attract the person’s attention in a positive way. If you tried something and it didn’t work, who’s fault is that? After all, you wanted their attention, it was then your self appointed goal to do something which would attract them. If you failed in that attempt then I would guess the next time you would try something else and keep trying until you get what “you wanted”. Sure throwing a fit is a sure way to get attention but the attention you get from that is negative attention and that’s not even what you set out to get.

Well that ended up being a lot longer then what I planned it to be lol. I wasn’t aiming this at anyone and I sure hope it don’t offend because that wasn’t my intent at all.. I also hope it don’t come across as if I was pointing a finger at one gender any more then the next. I think both are guilty in this and In my one analogy I could have very well used the husband as being the one upset and wanting more positive attention.. :)
 
Wow! I must have really sounded negative in my post. Sorry about that. I was merely trying to point out that hubbies have the duty to his wife despite her actions. Just as she has her duties to her hubby despite what he does. That has been one of my biggest revelations recently and the most profound. I am bound to my Lord to obey him no matter what my circumstances are. That means submit to my husband, regardless of what he does. It is so simple, but we grow up saying things like "He pushed me first" and "but she didn't keep her promise" and we learn that it is okay to blame our behavior on the people closest to us.

The other point I was trying to make (while it is more subtle) is the power that we have to affect other people's behavior simply by doing what we are told to do by God with a glad heart. The minute (or perhaps it was a day) I began to have a positive attitude about God and our situation, I became more precious to my hubby than I could have ever imagined. The moment I became a more Godly woman, God began working on hubby's heart. In the past 4 months, we have had one real argument and that was definitely an attack from the enemy. The more attacks we get from the enemy the more we know we are doing what God wants.

So EVERYONE, if you want your mate to do something in a different way, then examine your own behavior. There are so many things that we do each day that negatively effect our partners. Do you think that maybe doing something loving and positive to your spouse when they are having a bad day and lashing out at you might have a positive effect? If not, do you think God would appreciate you doing it anyway? I know that he wants us to return kindness to wrath. So if your mate is having a rough night, then try being kind. You won't regret it and you might turn the tables for your partner.

My post was not negative, just a sort of exhortation to others to review our own actions to see if we are causing someone else pain. The only behavior we can control is our own. We should make sure ours is in check before we start to try to fix someone else's (or blame them.)

SweetLissa
 
sicouple said:
Lots of great stuff....

Thanks, wonderful post kudos!!!!

Bels
 
I can see where this question is comming from, but I have a question. How do we men stay attractive to our wife or wives? How do we prove that we are deserving of a second wife? I think a lot of times we as men have not done what is needed to be done too take on a second wife or more. I know a lot of people blame their wifes insecurities, but if we treated them right and gave them all the love they could take then I am thinking we would probably not get as much if any resistance. I know as far as men here go I am kind of the baby of the bunch so my word is not heeded as much as others. But none the less I give my 2.5 cents. I have just seen too many times where men blame their wife/ wives for the resistance they get in plural marriage. I usually ask my self a lot of times what would it be that I am doing or not doing that is making Becky feel insecure or threatoned. Once I figure it out I do every thing I can to fix it. I want Becky too feel all the love and support possible in our marriage and she in return does the same. Like I said that's my 2.5 percent.
 
sweetlissa said:
Wow! I must have really sounded negative in my post. Sorry about that. I was merely trying to point out that hubbies have the duty to his wife despite her actions. Just as she has her duties to her hubby despite what he does. That has been one of my biggest revelations recently and the most profound. I am bound to my Lord to obey him no matter what my circumstances are. That means submit to my husband, regardless of what he does. It is so simple, but we grow up saying things like "He pushed me first" and "but she didn't keep her promise" and we learn that it is okay to blame our behavior on the people closest to us.

The other point I was trying to make (while it is more subtle) is the power that we have to affect other people's behavior simply by doing what we are told to do by God with a glad heart. The minute (or perhaps it was a day) I began to have a positive attitude about God and our situation, I became more precious to my hubby than I could have ever imagined. The moment I became a more Godly woman, God began working on hubby's heart. In the past 4 months, we have had one real argument and that was definitely an attack from the enemy. The more attacks we get from the enemy the more we know we are doing what God wants.

So EVERYONE, if you want your mate to do something in a different way, then examine your own behavior. There are so many things that we do each day that negatively effect our partners. Do you think that maybe doing something loving and positive to your spouse when they are having a bad day and lashing out at you might have a positive effect? If not, do you think God would appreciate you doing it anyway? I know that he wants us to return kindness to wrath. So if your mate is having a rough night, then try being kind. You won't regret it and you might turn the tables for your partner.

My post was not negative, just a sort of exhortation to others to review our own actions to see if we are causing someone else pain. The only behavior we can control is our own. We should make sure ours is in check before we start to try to fix someone else's (or blame them.)

SweetLissa

Very good post SweetLissa! I agree with everything your saying here.. Thank you for once again sharing your perspective.. I believe we are saying the same thing in different ways. I think it helps the women here to see how men translate their thoughts into words. Likewise it helps the men to see women doing the same. Once you have trust of how your mate feels for you its all about understanding each others translation.



Revgill87123 said:
I can see where this question is comming from, but I have a question. How do we men stay attractive to our wife or wives? How do we prove that we are deserving of a second wife? I think a lot of times we as men have not done what is needed to be done too take on a second wife or more. I know a lot of people blame their wifes insecurities, but if we treated them right and gave them all the love they could take then I am thinking we would probably not get as much if any resistance. I know as far as men here go I am kind of the baby of the bunch so my word is not heeded as much as others. But none the less I give my 2.5 cents. I have just seen too many times where men blame their wife/ wives for the resistance they get in plural marriage. I usually ask my self a lot of times what would it be that I am doing or not doing that is making Becky feel insecure or threatoned. Once I figure it out I do every thing I can to fix it. I want Becky too feel all the love and support possible in our marriage and she in return does the same. Like I said that's my 2.5 percent.

I agree Rev... In fact as men are given a place of headship, I don't believe he ever has the right to blame anything on his wife. If our home is not in order the fault of that falls on the husband because he is the leader of that home.. It may not be easy to get through to those you are to lead but if God gave them to you to care for then we have no choice but to keep trying. Not because we have to.. But because we want to make our home as orderly ass possible for those we love and for the Father himself. If we fail in that and the actions we chose to try and accomplish that didn't work for us, we are to blame for that because we were in a position of deciding what actions should be taken. Not only have we failed ourselves before God but we will have failed those He gave us to lead also..
 
sicouple said:
In fact as men are given a place of headship, I don't believe he ever has the right to blame anything on his wife. If our home is not in order the fault of that falls on the husband because he is the leader of that home.. ... If we fail in that and the actions we chose to try and accomplish that didn't work for us, we are to blame for that because we were in a position of deciding what actions should be taken. Not only have we failed ourselves before God but we will have failed those He gave us to lead also..

Pretty categorical statement. Completely relieves the woman of any responsibility. She can merely refuse to accept what she doesn't like, and he's stuck forever searching for a way to "get through". She can throw tantrums and objects, and it is his fault, 'cause he's the head? And if he doesn't succeed with her it is a failure of his headship, automatically, every time?

I'm wondering what error in headship YHWH made with Lucifer and 1/3 of the angels? Hey, there was a headship relationship that didn't work out. Was the error with Father God? Or are some folks just determined to cause disruption until they get their own way, then blame their head for not bowing to their own determined selves?

Your statements, taken to their logical conclusion, accuse God of failing with Lucifer and the angels. Ted's point was that when God or husband has done all that he can do to facilitate the relationship, providing love and good communication, some level of responsibility does lie with the other party. And the results of the Other's choice can be beautiful or ugly, attractive or revolting, and that the Other gets both the choice and the responsibility when the head has done what he should.

Or should God have said, "Well, I guess I'm just a failure at communicating and loving, Lucifer. Here. You take over."?
 
With all due respect Cecil, that isn’t necessarily what the OP said, it is your interpretation and the OP hasn’t returned to confirm whether this was the correct interpretation.

From what I understood of this:

“after the revelation of PM (and ALL that comes with that), “

This can mean anything, it could mean the spiritual Struggle of the man, it doesn’t necessarily read that he is or HAS BEEN doing right by the wife he has.

“if its common for wife #1's role to change and blossom into a secure, confident woman that can share her husband, and if this new role is in fact how she obtains her beauty from here on out “


Note, instant female failure if she doesn’t easily adopt a secure and confident attitude, Poly is incredibly difficult for everyone but no one will have to cope with the levels of insecurity about being replaced as the first wife, I would reckon that jealousy, fear and insecurity is far more .’common’ than being in blossom with security and confidence.


“while now past her solely physical prime,”


Already an acknowledgement that she is past her best and likely to be replaced by someone younger and more attractive than she is.

“then it's hers to lose or gain should her man, her husband, her leader fall in love with another woman and want to add this other woman to the family in order to grow his family”


Self focused, this isn’t about growing a family, this is about gaining a wife. That is how I saw it anyway.

B
 
CecilW said:
sicouple said:
In fact as men are given a place of headship, I don't believe he ever has the right to blame anything on his wife. If our home is not in order the fault of that falls on the husband because he is the leader of that home.. ... If we fail in that and the actions we chose to try and accomplish that didn't work for us, we are to blame for that because we were in a position of deciding what actions should be taken. Not only have we failed ourselves before God but we will have failed those He gave us to lead also..

Pretty categorical statement. Completely relieves the woman of any responsibility. She can merely refuse to accept what she doesn't like, and he's stuck forever searching for a way to "get through". She can throw tantrums and objects, and it is his fault, 'cause he's the head? And if he doesn't succeed with her it is a failure of his headship, automatically, every time?

I'm wondering what error in headship YHWH made with Lucifer and 1/3 of the angels? Hey, there was a headship relationship that didn't work out. Was the error with Father God? Or are some folks just determined to cause disruption until they get their own way, then blame their head for not bowing to their own determined selves?

Your statements, taken to their logical conclusion, accuse God of failing with Lucifer and the angels. Ted's point was that when God or husband has done all that he can do to facilitate the relationship, providing love and good communication, some level of responsibility does lie with the other party. And the results of the Other's choice can be beautiful or ugly, attractive or revolting, and that the Other gets both the choice and the responsibility when the head has done what he should.

Or should God have said, "Well, I guess I'm just a failure at communicating and loving, Lucifer. Here. You take over."?


Well, if God created something and gets the credit for it being good because He created it. If there must be blame assigned, for something created with a different purpose then we were created for, Who should get that blame? Who created that? The Bible makes it clear that we are saved by grace and no one deserves salvation on their own merit. Think about that.. Neither the saved or non saved deserve salvation. Why then are some "chosen" and some not? God is keeping His promises and saving His because He is faithful to His word and he said he would. God made the vessels of Honor and dishonor for His own pleasure and purpose. There really is no point in hating the vessels of dishonor because the Father has made them that way. He can make servants out of stones if He wanted to, He could have destroyed all the evil of the earth at any time.. He didn't because that wasn't His plan. Yes, the evil or vessels of dishonor are apart of His plan too. If not we must conclude that He isn't in fact in control as He says He is.

Paul said he seen his walk as a race.. He said he would run as if to win that race. He could have walked and slumbered along and fought God the entire time but he would still have finished that race. Both the wife and husband should see their walk the same way. If God gave the wive to that man and she believes God told her to summit unto and follow him then why fight it? When she does she makes both her life harder and that of her headship.

I never said the husband should give up and just follow the wife, he would be a terrible husband if he did that, not caring about whats best for his wife or God. My main point point is, if we are to love the wife as we love ourselves as the Bible commands, giving up on them should be the same as if we were to give up on our self. When one of His sheep ran off and get lost, Christ made it clear that He will go get that sheep. Why? because it is His sheep! He says He wont lose even one that He died for to the devil. He says nothing is strong enough to take even 1 He shed His blood to redeem. Yes if He lost even one to the devil then he would have failed. He was appointed the Shepherd of His Fathers sheep. We are in His care, He must tend to all the sheep, every single one without fail and He will, Praise God.

Obviously there are some goats that pose as sheep, I think this is where the confusion is coming in. Christ recognized the goats right off and told them where their place was. So I guess if a man felt He made a mistake and was shacking up with a goat, he would be free from caring for that woman because He was never charged with caring for her because God would never have joined a sheep with a goat. However, if God gave you your wife, she is a sheep. He asked you to hoe that row. If we at any point for any reason turn to him and say, we couldn't do it Father, we will have failed in the task he gave us.. All the reasons why we couldn't do it are just excuses and He is going to say, you were not worthy of tending one of my sheep. I gave you the right tools to do the job I asked you to do! I gave you the instructions of how to use those tools! A good husbandmen would have read my instructions and even asked others how to use the tools to get the job done, instead you bring me excuses.

At one time Adam did turn to God and say "it was the fault of the woman that you gave me!" God turned to her and made it clear she would not be in a position of doing that again. He then put the responsibility on Adam to watch out for both of them. Paul tells us the women proved to be the weaker flesh and the man is to be mindful of that and watch out for her. Adam no longer has a claim in blaming the woman the Father gave him.

When you think about it, woman's biggest weakness is also her biggest strength. There can't be 2 heads.. God instilled in woman the ability to follow, so the 2 could have a peaceful loving productive union as 1. The union being peaceful or not hinges on that ability. That ability also makes her more acceptable to following the instruction of the wicked. Its not like Paul was telling the man we should see the woman as any less then us, we were to simply know and understand, that is how she was made and if we don't acknowledge that there is going to be trouble for both of us. Knowing she is created with the ability to follow, we have to become her head so she will follow us instead of the world. We have to be the greatest thing in her life, commend the most respect, if she respects you above everything else in her life, she will follow you. If you send your wife off to learn about the Father from a church or her friends, you can bet she will follow that preacher or her friends over you because she will have more respect for them as a teacher. Those speaking the loudest are heard over those who choose to remain silent or just don't have anything to say at all. Why do you think women are drawn to men with confidence? can someone be followed that don't even respect or trust in himself? If he can't even lead himself, how is he possible going to lead you? lol

Can you choose to respect and trust someone enough to lead you? I mean seriously? Or do you respect them instinctively because of who they are, who they have shown you to be? The woman that tries to force respect onto someone don't really respect them.. She may respect herself enough to tell herself to follow but she is actuality following herself. She can't make herself truly respect her husband no more then he can make her respect him. All women are of course different, but if we as men get to know that women and we truly care about her as ourselves. We will be able to learn the things needed for her to instinctively respect us. This is not just listening to what she says but getting to know her better then herself.
 
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