How to fix the forum environment

[FollowingHim2]

More active moderation is not an easy thing. Let me explain a little bit about what it's like being married to an admin/moderator.

On our wedding anniversary Samuel was busy dealing with Johann and his posts.
On our son's 9th birthday he was on here in the morning dealing with other posts and members that were needing dealt with.
He's often laying next to me in bed at 11pm on his phone scrolling through the forum to try and catch up, or commenting on something to calm things down or keep the conversation flowing.
He gets untold amount of private messages for various reasons.
As his wife, I also try to help when he's too busy by watching out for things that may or have become problems. I notice new members, I read threads I'm not remotely interested in because I know at some stage they're going to blow up and when they do I'll need to mention to Samuel that he might want to make sure he reads that one and decides if he needs to do anything about it.
I've had to go and break him away from his work where he's trying to earn money for us and provide for his family because two people on here are going bat**** crazy at each other and posting private messages on the public forum.
I'm on here at 5pm (approximately midnight your time when there's less likely to be someone on who will delete posts, spammers know how this works...) when there's 10 spam posts from kitchen joinery manufacturers in the UK that need deleting, or someone trying to get people to invoke demons by turning to kabala or hinduism. And then I tell Samuel and he spends half an hour sorting it out when I actually really need his help to get children sorted and dinner on the table.
And all of this recent stuff that's been going on is when he's not even technically a moderator!

I'm not complaining. I'm not saying poor me, poor us. I love this forum, these people, this ministry. I gladly put the time into it that I do, and I love that Samuel is doing it too. I just want people to know that there is A LOT that is going on behind the scenes, and it can take over your life if you let it. There needs to be a balance. We can't be on here 24/7, and honestly, you're all adults and no one should need moderating.

 

[MrB]

More active moderation is not an easy thing. Let me explain a little bit about what it's like being married to an admin/moderator.

On our wedding anniversary Samuel was busy dealing with Johann and his posts.
On our son's 9th birthday he was on here in the morning dealing with other posts and members that were needing dealt with.
He's often laying next to me in bed at 11pm on his phone scrolling through the forum to try and catch up, or commenting on something to calm things down or keep the conversation flowing.
He gets untold amount of private messages for various reasons.
As his wife, I also try to help when he's too busy by watching out for things that may or have become problems. I notice new members, I read threads I'm not remotely interested in because I know at some stage they're going to blow up and when they do I'll need to mention to Samuel that he might want to make sure he reads that one and decides if he needs to do anything about it.
I've had to go and break him away from his work where he's trying to earn money for us and provide for his family because two people on here are going bat**** crazy at each other and posting private messages on the public forum.
I'm on here at 5pm (approximately midnight your time when there's less likely to be someone on who will delete posts, spammers know how this works...) when there's 10 spam posts from kitchen joinery manufacturers in the UK that need deleting, or someone trying to get people to invoke demons by turning to kabala or hinduism. And then I tell Samuel and he spends half an hour sorting it out when I actually really need his help to get children sorted and dinner on the table.
And all of this recent stuff that's been going on is when he's not even technically a moderator!

I'm not complaining. I'm not saying poor me, poor us. I love this forum, these people, this ministry. I gladly put the time into it that I do, and I love that Samuel is doing it too. I just want people to know that there is A LOT that is going on behind the scenes, and it can take over your life if you let it. There needs to be a balance. We can't be on here 24/7, and honestly, you're all adults and no one should need moderating.

I hear you Sarah
I don’t underestimate the imput needed to keep things here and there running smoothly it’s a huge commitment
I would advocate we all moderate ourselves, thus making moderators redundant
Until we can all meet these standards maybe clear specific rules with clear consequences might help
All will think more carefully when posting if our privilege will be easily removed for transgressions
Whatever is done It needs to be less work, not more for all concerned

I’ve sent a message to Samual with link to commenting moderation rules
If he want and has time ,he can call me,it’s been a while

 

[rockfox]

"No longer here" includes two categories: Those who got so severely out of line that they were kicked out by the moderators, and those who quietly left because they perceived a lack of control. There are people in both groups. And always there will simultaneously be people who think the moderators do too little, and others who think they're too heavy-handed. And whenever there's a serious dispute and two people are being equally moderated, each thinks they're being picked on and the other is being let off lightly, even if both are treated the same... It's a tough job trying to keep control of this place!

Though I'd agree with you that recently we've tended towards the low control end of the spectrum. This probably does mean that over the recent couple of years those that have quietly left will outnumber those who were booted, and we will have an unbalanced group to some extent because a portion of the quieter people have simply walked away.

There are also those who simply moved on in life. PM is something they believe, but not something that they spend a lot of time on.

Though I'd agree with you that recently we've tended towards the low control end of the spectrum

But it seems to me what has happened (i.e. my impression, could be very wrong, esp. since I can't see under the hood to what y'all are doing) is more the amount of discussion on the forum has increased a lot but the number of moderators has stayed the same. You're just over worked.

nobody should be allowed to offend anyone else

Impossible. To do that would mean censoring anything that offends the world, including many bland biblical truths.

 

[rockfox]

It cannot serve this purpose if people find it too adversarial and are unwilling to share for fear of criticism and argument.

This is an impossible quest. "don't criticize me" is always the cry of those who wish to spread falsehood without challenge. If you turn people's feelbads into the arbiter of acceptable discourse, if you pursue numbers over righteousness and truth this place will go the way of the American church; which has become so corrupt it's not a safe place for marriages.

 

[Asforme&myhouse]

Impossible. To do that would mean censoring anything that offends the world, including many bland biblical truths.

Sorry, that was an attempt at humor, and was to be taken in the context of the rest of that post

 

[aineo]

While we may not be able to stop folks from being offended, and I don’t think any of the mods or admins wish to soften everything up so much that we lose the ability to discuss things that need to be discussed in an honest and frank way, something that is missing in many posts is a respectful attitude. When we resort to name calling, insults, and deragatory behavior, we’re no longer adding value, we’re just being jerks.

 

[Man@Home]

I belong more in the “quite” or “listeners” category. Basically for a few reasons: living in Europe and therefore having a time zone difference always makes my reactions a bit (too) late as if the party is already over. These threads can grow very fast during “your” evenings when we try to get some sleep .

Second, I am not a native English speaker or writer, and I must admit that I am indeed a bit afraid of using words in the wrong manner which don’t express my feelings correctly but happen f.e. due to translation errors. I don’t want to insult others unknowingly, but maybe the most important reason might still be that I am still learning to become a worthy head of my own Biblical family.
Let me first express that I learn a lot on this forum, also when discussions are really on nitty details as these sometimes matter. I really enjoy and value all contributors, even when I don’t agree with some thoughts in some matters as also these thoughts sharpen my own thoughts in why I think about it in that way.
But I make mistakes a lot and I am not there yet. I am indeed as well afraid for the sometimes harsh corrections when being wrong (independently on how correct you are on that point). Let’s say I am too insecure at this moment and that certainly will not help to strengthen it. This is something I have to work on for myself as I am as well tending to avoid confrontation in all cases, even when it matters and when I am really convinced that I am following the Bible at that point.

And lastly, I notice sometimes as well a sort of cultural difference between how the majority living on the other side of the ocean experience things compared to how we do.

So, that was a long confession. Both me and @1stWife@Home have learned a lot here and hope to learn and grow a lot more.

I think splitting the forum into two parts might really be of help. May I suggest a more applied and theoretical split? The last then gives room for all theological discussions and the first is then a lighter version.
But as stated before: we really learn from you all and appreciate you all here at BF! God bless!

 

[Man@Home]

Oh, and I really really appreciate the mods in doing a fine job!

 

[Cap]

More active moderation is not an easy thing. Let me explain a little bit about what it's like being married to an admin/moderator.

On our wedding anniversary Samuel was busy dealing with Johann and his posts.
On our son's 9th birthday he was on here in the morning dealing with other posts and members that were needing dealt with.
He's often laying next to me in bed at 11pm on his phone scrolling through the forum to try and catch up, or commenting on something to calm things down or keep the conversation flowing.
He gets untold amount of private messages for various reasons.
As his wife, I also try to help when he's too busy by watching out for things that may or have become problems. I notice new members, I read threads I'm not remotely interested in because I know at some stage they're going to blow up and when they do I'll need to mention to Samuel that he might want to make sure he reads that one and decides if he needs to do anything about it.
I've had to go and break him away from his work where he's trying to earn money for us and provide for his family because two people on here are going bat**** crazy at each other and posting private messages on the public forum.
I'm on here at 5pm (approximately midnight your time when there's less likely to be someone on who will delete posts, spammers know how this works...) when there's 10 spam posts from kitchen joinery manufacturers in the UK that need deleting, or someone trying to get people to invoke demons by turning to kabala or hinduism. And then I tell Samuel and he spends half an hour sorting it out when I actually really need his help to get children sorted and dinner on the table.
And all of this recent stuff that's been going on is when he's not even technically a moderator!

I'm not complaining. I'm not saying poor me, poor us. I love this forum, these people, this ministry. I gladly put the time into it that I do, and I love that Samuel is doing it too. I just want people to know that there is A LOT that is going on behind the scenes, and it can take over your life if you let it. There needs to be a balance. We can't be on here 24/7, and honestly, you're all adults and no one should need moderating.

That sounds like really a lot of work. Is there a relationship of moderators/ admin to users that is normally considered in forum maintenance on other sites?

 

[PeteR]

With the stated need for more mods, have you considered adding a well qualified lady to the mix?

 

[steve]

I self identify as an extremely quiet, shy, 13 yr old female.
I have no clue as to why people do not treat me as such.

 

[Phillip]

The problem with having two different forums, a "lite" option and a full throttle option is that the "lite" will end up being ignored and everyone will be piled up in the hardcore section grtting their feelings hurt again. No one wants to sit at the kiddy table. Or watch the WNBA.

I disagree, I understand your thinking, but I think there are plenty of people that when they ask a question, they want a ‘yes’ or ‘no’. They don’t want to dive into deep waters. Unlike you, you seem to like the deep end of the pool. Nothing wrong with that. But there are plenty who like the shallow end. You’re capable of treading in the deep end, others haven’t learn to do that yet. They’d drown in the deep end. But I guess that’s why this thread gas come up.

 

[Pacman]

I disagree, I understand your thinking, but I think there are plenty of people that when they ask a question, they want a ‘yes’ or ‘no’. They don’t want to dive into deep waters. Unlike you, you seem to like the deep end of the pool. Nothing wrong with that. But there are plenty who like the shallow end. You’re capable of treading in the deep end, others haven’t learn to do that yet. They’d drown in the deep end. But I guess that’s why this thread gas come up.

I tend to agree with you Phillip. There are times I cannot (due to lack of study) wade into the deep end and I’m perfectly willing to talk with people about the milk of the word until my understanding is more complete. Then I want the meat... so perhaps we can view it as more of an introductory discussion section and then the other as a more advanced level...

 

[The Revolting Man]

But therein lies part of the problem. I'm much closer to the conservative/fundamentalist side of theology, but I don't see it as my job to correct everyone and bring them into my camp. It may sound soft and weak, but sometimes a spoon full of sugar helps the medicine go down. Shout at someone who you believe is in error and hes likely to walk. Befriend him and share your personal experience and belief...you may win a convert. Even if you don't, you still have a friend.

Sometimes, sure.

 

[Pacman]

But therein lies part of the problem. I'm much closer to the conservative/fundamentalist side of theology, but I don't see it as my job to correct everyone and bring them into my camp. It may sound soft and weak, but sometimes a spoon full of sugar helps the medicine go down. Shout at someone who you believe is in error and hes likely to walk. Befriend him and share your personal experience and belief...you may win a convert. Even if you don't, you still have a friend.

There are effective ways of correcting someone’s wrong thinking without being overly harsh about it. Part of that requires that both parties give the benefit of the doubt with regards to taking things as personal attacks vs. just a disagreement with doctrine...

 

[rustywest4]

My thoughts ...

1) @FollowingHim, you sir deserve 10 wives due to how incredibly attractive your awesomeness is! *There are many who greatly appreciate all your time and service Samuel. Blessings to you and Sarah for giving selflessly to this ministry. It has enriched my life and marriage so very much! Thanks brother!

2) We could get a muzzle for @ZecAustin, aka “The Bulldog of the South”... then we make sure to fence off the theological danger zone of the site real good and keep him in it... this way he can only bark over the fence at people enjoying less friction filled fellowship... until they realize he’s just a big fur ball that wants his belly rubbed and decide they can handle his bark and wanna jump the fence to pet his mane & join the big kid conversations!

3) I really like the “Parking Lot Fight Club” idea presented by @Asforme&myhouse ... furthermore, I feel he is just the man for the job of overseeing the implementation of Project Mayhem on the West Coast... and I have no ploblems executing homework assignments handed down by Mr. Durden!

4) I‘d also like to simply echoe the “respectful attitude” (showing grace, patience and love towards one another) that @aineo and many others have mentioned. Always best for us to be bearing some of that yummy fruit of the Spirit stuff!

#bfstaffrocks
#bfforlife

 

[FollowingHim2]

With the stated need for more mods, have you considered adding a well qualified lady to the mix?

No man on here is going to be happy or comfortable being moderated or told off by a woman, and I wouldn't expect them to be. Wrong roles.
It's very rare that a woman needs to be moderated. In fact the only thing that's ever happened in the ladies only section requiring moderator input is men posting in there when they're not meant to! We just don't argue and debate in there like you guys do on the main forum.

 

[nathan]

I really appreciate Sarah's sharing about Samuel's efforts from her perspective. I could not be more thankful for Samuel's engagement here, and he is in large measure responsible for the forum's helpfulness to others currently. I'm praying that continues, and that the rest of you have grace for the constant effort it is to readjust it to something useful. The forum's are not for everybody, we've seen that many times; but certainly different 'levels' with varying access, visibility and purpose, is part of the solution - and we've always tried some form of that. In the forums first iteration, it got so loud and nasty in the first 2 years, that I created a 'Debate' forum - and as soon as discussion crossed a (always vague) line, we simply moved that thread to it, and gave access to that forum to those with thick-skins. There was only about 20 guys in it, as I recall. "Fight Club" is another good name for it. To those of you who know to always be kind here, and ignore what is not helpful to them without offense: thank you. And thank you for your patience as we try to improve things.

 

[Mojo]

I really appreciate Sarah's sharing about Samuel's efforts from her perspective. I could not be more thankful for Samuel's engagement here, and he is in large measure responsible for the forum's helpfulness to others currently. I'm praying that continues, and that the rest of you have grace for the constant effort it is to readjust it to something useful. The forum's are not for everybody, we've seen that many times; but certainly different 'levels' with varying access, visibility and purpose, is part of the solution - and we've always tried some form of that. In the forums first iteration, it got so loud and nasty in the first 2 years, that I created a 'Debate' forum - and as soon as discussion crossed a (always vague) line, we simply moved that thread to it, and gave access to that forum to those with thick-skins. There was only about 20 guys in it, as I recall. "Fight Club" is another good name for it. To those of you who know to always be kind here, and ignore what is not helpful to them without offense: thank you. And thank you for your patience as we try to improve things.

Good to hear from @nathan. Hope things are going well for you and yours. Thanks for your words.

 

[rustysdove11]

I don’t think an overhaul of the whole forum is entirely necessary, and I don’t think more moderation is either. I have no problem with debate or delving deeper on any given subject, it’s one of the things I love about the site. I just wish I could post freely as a woman and not be made to feel like my opinion is “less then” or be told to “go ask my husband”.

Rusty’s also gotten private messages before being told to “control your wife” because I made a comment about how rediculous the sages are, yet, if I was posting as a man I could simply have debated the subject. I never post without talking to my husband first, what I say has his approval.

We don’t need more moderation or a different set up, there just needs to be a little more respect. I don’t expect to be handeled with kid gloves, I just don’t want to be treated like child and be all but told to stay in the ladies section.

BF has been a wonderful influence in our lives, it’s a rare place where people can debate freely, which is an attribute that should be preserved. I just want to be able to join in without being told to go to the perverbial corner.... more moderation or even more division in the form of lite and heavy discussion forums isn’t going to change that.... I’d hope that just talking about the issue would be enough.