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How West was born
- Thread starter MemeFan
- Start date
I know some here are fairly "anti Western civilization", and "anti-Christendom". I think that is a mistake. Christendom and Western Civilization certainly have some real problems, but they are generally preferable to any other system the world has seen.
Globohomo satanic trash world certainly isn't an improvement over Christendom.
I'd rather see Christendom reformed to be more Biblically faithful rather than demolished altogether.
More of Christ, and less of the "dum"
Globohomo satanic trash world certainly isn't an improvement over Christendom.
I'd rather see Christendom reformed to be more Biblically faithful rather than demolished altogether.
More of Christ, and less of the "dum"
Guys, point of post is why Western society is so weird in comparison with rest. What made West so great is abudance/preponderance of voluntary organisations.
Why? Because voluntary organisations only works when are win-win-win......-win for everyone included. Otherwise, why be a member?
Key reason West is dying is replacement of voluntary with mandatory (backed by force). It allows win-win-win...-win to be turned into win-lose-lose-.....-lose for everyone.
Notice how in usually societies being mandatory member was expected. It's was West weaking of clan and family which enabled fluorishing of voluntarism.
Why? Because voluntary organisations only works when are win-win-win......-win for everyone included. Otherwise, why be a member?
Key reason West is dying is replacement of voluntary with mandatory (backed by force). It allows win-win-win...-win to be turned into win-lose-lose-.....-lose for everyone.
Notice how in usually societies being mandatory member was expected. It's was West weaking of clan and family which enabled fluorishing of voluntarism.
Yes, greatest supporter of voluntarism on this forum actually has hidden fetish for dictators.
I have to disagree. I think what made the West great was largely the Christian Faith. The more broadly, and faithfully the Biblical Faith was practiced, the higher the West rose. This was especially the case in the countries impacted by the Protestant Reformation.
Early Protestant Christianity though certainly imperfect, was generally more Biblically faithful than either Roman Catholicism or Eastern Orthodoxy.
Britain, the Netherlands, Switzerland, Germany, the United States, and Scandinavia rose higher and higher as they followed the One True King.
Sadly, the West has largely abandoned Christ, and most of the remaining Christianity is impotent pietistic naval gazing. God will not be mocked. We have turned from Him and will suffer for it.
Those who refuse to serve Christ will inevitably come to serve tyrants.
You do a terrible job of hiding it.
The abundance of voluntary organisations was only a symptom of the dominance of the Christian faith.
Yes, one of many good fruits
It was sarcasm squared.
Nope, there was very high influence of Germanism.
Freedom of marriage without parental consent, non-kin marriage and free associations are Germanic in origin.
Christianity can easily be used to support tyranny. Europe did have absolute monarchies. Just forbid freedom of conscience to save souls, drill Romans 13 into population to absolutely obey ruler.
Didn't read any work of comprehensive Christian ethnics*, but these guy seems obsessed with duties. It takes just a little push to turn these duties into law. And there is inheritance of Roman law which is weak in freedom of association. So remember Late Roman Empire? Christian absolute rulership.
I wonder was proskynesis practiced in Empire? Anyway, practice of aristocracy standing straight in from of king, instead of bowing, is European in origin.
Only book I wasn't able to read is "Concieved in Liberty" by Murray Rothbard. I couldn't stand bloody Puritans. Christ has given me authority to make rules for you for your benefit.
And I have read that Muslim custom of totally covered female clothing is Mediterraean in origin. If true, it was practiced by Christians.
*Except Gary North, but he is economist, not into social relationships
And Jews. Why does the New Testament talk about head coverings / veils? Because that was normal dress for women at the time. The Muslims did not invent their dress code, they just preserved the dress code that already existed in the culture, even while others abandoned it, and now look oppressive by comparison. Well, they might have pushed it a bit further and made it more mandatory and extreme than it was, but they didn't invent the fundamental idea.
Thanks. Didn't know.
Have you read much Puritan work?
Most people today haven't, and hate the Puritans based on an inaccurate caricature put forth by atheistic modernists. Libertines have always been put off by the Biblical faith, much like the prodigal son prior to his conversion. On the other hand, the followers of Christ have often found the Puritans to be a source of very great encouragement.
The Puritans, like everyone else, were a mixed bag. Yes, they had some serious problems. Some were Pharisaical.
The Puritans also had a profound understanding of the human soul, and the Biblical Faith. These people were serious Christians, who worked hard to put true faith into practice.
Outside the Bible, the Puritans (and those in their theological wake) have been more helpful to my Christian faith than almost anything else.
I loved "Pilgrims Progress" by John Bunyan and also found "The Life and Death of Mr Badman" extremely helpful. I've downloaded a bunch of other Bunyan books, but need to get around to reading them. I hear "Holy War" is also excellent.
"The Life of God in the Soul of Man" by Henry Scougal is a wonderful little book. I also recommend "The Bruised Reed" by Richard Sibbes. I'm currently reading "The Godly Man's Picture", by Thomas Watson. A helpful devotional type book is a collection of Puritan prayers entitled "The Valley of Vision" by Banner of Truth books.
Jonathan Edwards, John Gill, Matthew Henry, J.C.Ryle, Charles Spurgeon, and Martin Lloyd Jones are all spiritual descendants of the Puritans.
When you get to the topic of polygamy, I think "Puritan descendent" Martin Madan author of "Thelyphthora" deserves a lot of credit.
For things like:
1. Debt forgivness laws to help lower class while actually they are saving themselves
2. Price controls on labor (limiting salaries) when salaries started to rise. We can't have lower profits due to labor scarcity.
3. Creators of US public schooling because our intepretation can only be correct (read: children kidnapping for indoctination).
4.Flogging for kissing your wife on your porch. It's bloody public immorality, someone might get horny.
5. Sumptuary laws (???spelling). You know when you betters determine in their wisdom what you can wear*. We must keep social status (actually only us in charge).
I also heard if your wife didn't get pregnant in allowed time they keep beating you up till pregnancy happened.
Assholes all around. They were just like Davos guys. Same self-rightneous, just with way less power and slighty less stupid ideas.
*What do you think purpose of carbon limit is. Don't worry private jets won't be taxed.
What Puritan writings would you suggest we read to learn this stuff?
Murray Rothbard is source mainly.
I'm more than most sensitive to economic freedom since bad score usually implies bad score everywhere.
These is natural pathway towards societal desteuction when elites decide to be in charge, instead of things running mostly on their own.
I'm commenting secular works of Puritans, not their faith.
And we can apply same criteria for all faiths because universal truth in economic matters is within reach of mankind. Faith is different because we can't use same scale of "measurement", not have objective measures.
Famous puritan John Bunyan was an itinerant repairer of basic household tools (tinker) who was imprisoned by the State for many years for preaching the Bible without authorization. That hardly sounds "elite".
Oliver Cromwell on the other hand
