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Instagram post on nagging

N

NS4Liberty

Member
Male
The following Instagram post has 2 points. 1.) Nagging can be sinful. 2.) Men should give their wife nothing to nag about.

I am torn on this because it is a good goal to take responsibility and initiative to make your wife feel safe, but a man's goals and priorities are going to be different from a woman's. A contentious woman will always find something to nag about, in my opinion. What do you all think about this post?

www.instagram.com

Joey on Instagram: "Grateful for a wife who shares her feelings with me, encourages me by her submission, and is patient with my failures. I love you @__dearsister__ !❤️ @the.masculine.mandate #themasculinemandate"

Joey shared a post on Instagram: "Grateful for a wife who shares her feelings with me, encourages me by her submission, and is patient with my failures. I love you @__dearsister__ !❤️ @the.masculine.mandate #themasculinemandate". Follow their account to see 103 posts.
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When I read stuff like this nowadays I always interject "Christ" and "Church" in place of the terms for husband, wife, he, and she, etc. Moving the metaphor up one level can help reveal some context, since we are less prone as people to manipulate the submissive nature of our own relationship with God. If it doesn't make sense as Christ and the church than, at least from my assumptions, that is evidence that the thinking is skewed. Now, I realize that ideally, I'd be as perfect as Christ and perhaps that perfection could somehow fix things, but I suspect this is not always true - and that even in cases of exceptional character - certain nags will just keep nagging in the same way that Christ loves the whole earth but not everyone finds repentance and faith.

So what else is a man supposed to do except try to treat her as Christ would the church and try and improve in these things by being more Christ like? What else is a church supposed to do, except change its focus from what it perceives it lacks, to what it has in Christ. It seems the attitude shift is much more effective at the subordinate level. On top of that the culture has a major inclination to creating passive men at the moment, so if a man is not careful he can lose things that make him attractive and capable quite quickly, falling to the overwhelming gynocentric nature of our current society. Tough love just might be the best form and proper thing needed to stop nagging, it also might be the hardest to properly emulate as an imperfect man in an imperfect world - and I don't think anyone is guaranteed results, perfect or not.
 
Interesting note: There are two different forms of this word. There is the one for the "contentious wife" (mdyaniym). Prov. 6:14; 18:18; 21:9, 19; 23:29; 25:24; 26:21; 27:15 and then another, closely related word for strife, quarreling and scolding ("madon"). While the first one is almost always plural and describes a "state of affairs," the second is usually a specific case, but they do not seem to be singular and plural of the same word.
The interesting thing about the "contentious wife" is the metaphors used:

(Prov 25:24; 21:9) "better to live on the corner of a roof." What is wrong with living on the corner of a roof? You could fall. . . it is insecure/not peaceful.

(Prov 27:15"Like dripping water . . . " - Houses typically had flat roofs that were thatched with grass and mud. Trickling water not only would serve to destroy the roof, but could trickle down the roof supports and ultimately destroy the house.

(Prov 21:19) "In a desert" - Not only lacking all of the comforts of home the desert was home not only wild animals, but brigands and outlaws. Again, it is a comparison of insecurity/peace.

While Proverbs makes comparatives that are insightful . . . it neither explains the cause of the contentious wife . . . nor what to do about it.
 
I sent a message to @Mark C to double check my Hebrew. . . and I'm not absolutely sure about this . . . so take it for what it's worth. I think that the root for both "contention" ("madon") and what is glossed as "contentious" ("mdanym") is the root for judgment (legal), dispute (legal), and quarreling (general) ("dyn"). I suggested that "judgment" may be at the root of "contention" in more than a semantic way.
Submission is easy when we know that . . .we really have no choice. If my father asks me to do something, and I don't agree, but it is not sinful . . . then I obey. It's not a matter for discussion. When I judge what he says it may lead me to dispute it. This does two things. Superficially, it creates a conflict between me and my father. On a more important level it says implicitly, "This thing (whatever it is) or my being RIGHT about this thing is a) more important than my relationship with my father and b) more important than the LORD's command to obey my father."
In the case of the contentious wife in Proverbs, it seems that this process is habitual or constant. . . possibly from distrust, possibly from arrogance, possibly from ignorance. Yet as Mark C noted, the implied guidance of Proverbs seems to be "don't marry a woman like this."
 
I had several thoughts come to mind reading the post, but I think he hit the nail on the head with that last slide when he said:

“He isn’t a child, he is your head.”

Far too many women treat their husbands like children. Culture has created this stereotype of the incompetent husband who is a man-child, someone incapable of making good decisions, careless with his time, focused on juvenile interests, and requiring direction to succeed. How many men go into the weekend looking at their “honey do list” that sits next to their children’s chore chart? How many men ask permission to attend social gatherings or to make purchases? How many men say their wife “wears the pants”?

Nagging is at its best a bad habit of poor behavior, and at its worst intentional sinful rebellion. Obviously, for the non-believer sin doesn’t enter into the equation and that woman just won herself bragging rights at the water cooler.

It’s a symptom of flipped gender roles.

Who is the bigger problem: Men who act feminine? Or women who act masculine? My husband and I have had this conversation many times, it always comes down to a chicken or the egg type argument. But I lean more towards saying women need to step up and take responsibility first to correct the imbalance.

And if a woman is obviously contentious, I would question what would make her attractive as a potential wife in the first place.
 
@ABlessedMan I think you have this exactly right

ABlessedMan said:
On a more important level it says implicitly, "This thing (whatever it is) or my being RIGHT about this thing is a) more important than my relationship with my father and b) more important than the LORD's command to obey my father."
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My example of marriage growing up was a know-it-all narcissist who always had to be right. And sadly, that’s actually a lot of women I know. They must “be right” all the time. I think the reasons why women become like that vary, but the result is still the same.
 
his_muse said:
@ABlessedMan I think you have this exactly right



My example of marriage growing up was a know-it-all narcissist who always had to be right. And sadly, that’s actually a lot of women I know. They must “be right” all the time. I think the reasons why women become like that vary, but the result is still the same.
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Is one of the difficulties a first wife has when her husband takes a second rooted in that same basic mindset? If she has to be right does she also have to be in control? Having to share seems to be quite a challenge and I'm wondering, in light of your comment, if at least part of that is losing the control; like finding out she's not always right(?) Just a random thought that ran through the gray matter. Shalom
 
frederick said:
Is one of the difficulties a first wife has when her husband takes a second rooted in that same basic mindset? If she has to be right does she also have to be in control? Having to share seems to be quite a challenge and I'm wondering, in light of your comment, if at least part of that is losing the control; like finding out she's not always right(?) Just a random thought that ran through the gray matter. Shalom
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I think that certainly could be true for some women. Though for those who fully accept polygyny as Biblical, it might not be a basis for their hesitation simply because if you are in submission to your husband you aren’t the woman who has to be in control.

I’d love to take time at some point to write out all of my thoughts on a first wife’s difficulty in accepting polygyny for her husband. One interesting thought is that it’s not necessarily about sharing a husband (losing “control”), rather being displaced by her husband having more. A woman’s biological nature is to need to feel craved by her husband sexually. She wants him to want her. Does that naturally make women a bit narcissistic? Sure, I suppose so. After all, we are told we are cursed to desire our husbands and they will rule over us. But what’s important to understand is that same biological response in the first wife is visible to her as: her husband having another wife = he longs for that woman. So the first wife sees him wanting another woman and believes he no longer wants her.
And now that I type this out it leads to another thought, I think it’s possible that if a woman doesn’t feel like her husband sexually desires her she might seek that attention from him in a way that comes naturally, by “mothering” him.
My husband and I were discussing the other day something he saw online from a psychologist describing women’s sexual biology. She said if a woman doesn’t feel desirable sexually (she’s touched out, mentally exhausted, stressed, insecure, etc) then her husband won’t be able to make her feel wanted because of that mental block. This, obviously, leads to problems in the bedroom. And is the beginning of a cycle of behavior in the woman that could deteriorate quickly. She might nag her husband because she’s seeking his attention, but then will reject his attention because of her nagging, and round and round she will go.

But now I’m just rambling, spewing out randomly placed thoughts.
 
his_muse said:
Far too many women treat their husbands like children.
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Far too many men (and women) these days ACT like children.

My pet peeve living in Wyoming are the Dime Store or Drugstore Cowboys. These are the jerks who own a shiny new $150,000 4x4 pickup truck, they wear the best Stetson hats, the best custom made boots, and there's never a speck of dirt (or hard work) on any of it. Meanwhile they have their family living in a single-wide mobile home parked on someone else's property, the kids are filthy, and the mom always looks like she's despairing of her life.

These pathetic creatures are little boys in big bodies and their wife is doing double duty as the mother and father they should have had.
 
As people leave Yah, the Bible, and morals behind, Self has become the god of their lives.
 
4 Abide in me as I abide in you. Just as the branch cannot bear fruit by itself unless it abides in the vine, neither can you unless you abide in me.
5 I am the vine, you are the branches. Those who abide in me and I in them bear much fruit, because apart from me you can do nothing.
6 Whoever does not abide in me is thrown away like a branch and withers; such branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned. (John 15:4-6 NRS)

Reading over the discussion this morning, these verses came to mind. First, is it any wonder that our society as a whole is deteriorating? As individuals neglect or abandon the LORD, they simultaneously cut themselves off from his power working within them. We don't need to discuss whether there has ever actually been a "Christian nation" to know that the LORD and His Word have been "kicked to the curb" in practically every western nation. I don't think it's a stretch to say that there are fewer people living as followers (per capita) than in days past. The presence of less salt and less light is evident.

For us as followers, the struggle then is to not conform but to be transformed by the renewal of the Holy Spirit. . . and I think that is part of the good news of both "Dime Store Cowboys" (@MeganC) and the struggle to grow in marriage (@his_muse ). Like Megan, there are couples that I meet that show how blessed I am in my marriage . . . and how unlike other women my wives are. I leave thinking, "Wow, I'm so glad I'm not married to somebody like that . . ." It is a testimony to the LORD's power in bearing fruit in us, and also in our obedience to Him. Likewise, as we struggle to grow in love for one another and in our respective roles as men and women, the LORD uses the shortcomings in our spouse to demonstrate where we need to grow in relationship to him. Am I having trouble with my wife submitting to me? I better double check to make sure that I am submitting to my Master. . . and frequently that is where I discover the problem. I don't know if the same is true for Ladies, but the number of times my disappointment in our relationship is merely a signpost for me to turn my attention to my relationship with the LORD is beyond count.
 
MeganC said:
Far too many men (and women) these days ACT like children.

My pet peeve living in Wyoming are the Dime Store or Drugstore Cowboys. These are the jerks who own a shiny new $150,000 4x4 pickup truck, they wear the best Stetson hats, the best custom made boots, and there's never a speck of dirt (or hard work) on any of it. Meanwhile they have their family living in a single-wide mobile home parked on someone else's property, the kids are filthy, and the mom always looks like she's despairing of her life.

These pathetic creatures are little boys in big bodies and their wife is doing double duty as the mother and father they should have had.
Click to expand...

That is certainly a good niche representation of the perpetual teenager that is so prominent.

Thought about the image you paint a bit and thought about the ranchers I grew up around who had the land, the cattle and the legitimate way of life. Quite the contrast with the attempt at being a peacock.
I am having a hard time imagining spending money in such an out of balance fashion. I feel weird about spending the money to get new souls on my boots when it is time and it is not because I can't afford it, it is because I was raise around
penny pinching scrimping and saving minimalist ranchers who generally looked at minimum dusty and often flat shabby but who might have millions in the bank and far more in land and hard assets.
 
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