Welcome, Brandy!
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Introducing me :)
- Thread starter Brandy
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Welcome!
Hi Rusty... I joined in for the first time last night with the ladies. I really enjoyed getting to know them.
My faith.... well.. I am a Christian. I believe in God and that he sent his son to die on the cross for our sins. I am learning things that are different than I’m used to... so we’ll see how and if that changes.
Thanks for the prayers.. they are always welcome.
~Brandy
Thanks Julie. I enjoyed it. Looking forward to next week!Greetings Brandy! So glad you made an Intro, we like to welcome the newbies here.Hope to see you at Ladies Chat again, also. Look forward to getting to know you.
I am in Topeka. My dad lives in Owasso
I gre
I grew up in Winfield.... loved it
Welcome to the forum, Brandy, it was great to chat with you today!
Brandy did things backwards by coming to the chat before posting on the forum, lol. Not really backwards, but saves me having to mention the chat, although I did mention that she should post an intro, so I guess my inviting skills are still being used
Too much kissing. Not enough robots. Ryan Gosling was much better in "Blade Runner 2049".
@brandy…the love of your life is out there. Use prayer and YHWH to show you the man He wants you to marry. After 2 failed marriages and several bad relationships, I finally asked Him to show me the man Her wanted for me. He showed me Jim and we are still going strong 18 years later. There is so much power in prayer.
I didn't like the fact that he stole a betrothed woman. If a woman is betrothed, Scripture condemn a man who takes her to bed, as well as the woman, who cheated on her future husband. I understand that they were involved before the betrothal took place, but I could never do that myself. Once a woman gets engaged, she is off limits for me, and unless the engagement is broken off, she will remain off-limits to me until her husband is deceased.
Haven't seen the movie - but you're using the words "engaged" and "betrothed" interchangeably, and they are not at all the same. Engagement is not a Biblical concept - it's a statement of intent, but is never mentioned in scripture.
Betrothal is when actual, firm commitments are made, and often money changes hands. From that point on the woman is considered the man's wife even if he hasn't slept with her.
Then, all it takes is consummation, and they're married.
In a modern context, I view betrothal as our modern wedding ceremony, where the formal agreements are made in our culture. Once a man and woman have exchanged vows etc, we all consider them married even if they have not slept together yet. The preacher says "I now present Mr and Mrs Anderson". If she slept with the best man at the wedding reception, after the ceremony but before consummation, we would consider her an adulteress - even though the wedding is not technically complete until consummation.
In Biblical times, the difference was simply that that formal agreement could be made months or years before consummation. This period between formal agreement and consummation, which in our culture is a few hours, Biblically could be years. And to sleep with a woman during this period was adultery, just as it would be adultery to sleep with a bride on her wedding afternoon.
Engagement is not betrothal. An engaged woman is not betrothed, and it is not sinful in any way for her to change her intent, break off the engagement, and choose to go to another man. People frequently break off engagements, and can because they aren't actually serious - emotional of course, but not in any way a commitment. A man chasing an engaged woman is obviously acting in a repulsive manner - but not a sinful manner. Once a formal agreement has been made though (vows etc), she's off limits.
You do make a valid distinction there, and I must first off say that I would never claim that neither party should ever break off an engagement. However, I kind of see Matt 5:28 as applying not only to married/separated/divorced women, but also to engaged women. In the movie "The Notebook", that is precisely what the man did, taking a woman who was engaged to be married to someone else. I could never in good conscience do that myself. If he or she were to break off the engagement before the marriage, I could see renewing my interest in the woman, and of course, what I said about her being off-limits until he is deceased, still applies, if and when they follow through with the marriage.
And I agree with you also in that scripturally this all becomes rather simple when you remember that there is no word "wife", only "woman". The 7th commandment basically boils down to "don't take another man's woman". And while she's said she'll marry him (even though she hasn't formally agreed to, just said she intends to), she is his woman in a rather real sense. To pursue and take her is unprincipled - but doesn't meet the threshold of sin because the moment she chooses to be with you, she is choosing to break off her engagement to him, and as that was never formalised anyway she is fully free to do that so can do so without sin. It's just a rather underhanded way to go about the whole thing.
Of course, if they're already sleeping together and just call themselves "engaged", they're just fooling themselves. Their relationship is consummated, she's his woman and she's off limits to you.
Of course, if they're already sleeping together and just call themselves "engaged", they're just fooling themselves. Their relationship is consummated, she's his woman and she's off limits to you.
Very true, and if she is sleeping with him, that speaks a lot about her character as well. I like the NIV translation of Prov 31:10 where it describes the wife as being a woman of noble character.
I wouldn't put it that way. If she's sleeping with him, she's his wife (woman). She just doesn't realise it because she's been indoctrinated to believe that "marriage" is when you've got a government marriage licence. They intend to get a government licence one day, and have a big party at the time, but they can't afford the party yet, so they call themselves "engaged". This is just how modern society twists language.
In most cases, she's probably a decent woman, being a decent wife, and he's probably a decent man. Of course, if she ran off with another man THAT would be evidence of her not having noble character, but if she's faithful to the man she calls her "fiancee" she's acting nobly. She's just speaking in another language when labelling her marriage.
