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Is God the source of evil?

steve said:
But darkness can only be produced by blocking light. You cannot generate it.
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Apparently God can:

Exo 10:21 And the LORD said unto Moses, Stretch out thine hand toward heaven, that there may be darkness over the land of Egypt, even darkness which may be felt.
Exo 10:22 And Moses stretched forth his hand toward heaven; and there was a thick darkness in all the land of Egypt three days:
Exo 10:23 They saw not one another, neither rose any from his place for three days: but all the children of Israel had light in their dwellings.
 
Jim an Apostle said:
Apparently God can:

Exo 10:21 And the LORD said unto Moses, Stretch out thine hand toward heaven, that there may be darkness over the land of Egypt, even darkness which may be felt.
Exo 10:22 And Moses stretched forth his hand toward heaven; and there was a thick darkness in all the land of Egypt three days:
Exo 10:23 They saw not one another, neither rose any from his place for three days: but all the children of Israel had light in their dwellings.
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Now that's interesting, so darkness can dispel light.
 
Soldier's Psalm said:
I can't get behind that one. Evil is most certainly real. I believe evil is the absence of God but it is definitely a thing. A better way to say it in my opinion would be that evil is the thing that fills the void where there is no presence or God's character exercised.
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Then when was it created and by whom? Did God do something evil? If evil is a physical thing that can be generated is possible for someone who can generate evil to generate enough of it to cancel out someone else’s “good”? Think about it for a minute, or evil as Evil, as an entity with form and function represents a massive theological conundrum. Does Evil control Satan or does Satan control Evil? Is Satan Evil? How did our holy and loving God create evil? Can it defeat an otherwise decent Christian man?

I understand that there are terrible things in the world that we need to put a label on but we shouldn’t try to distance ourselves from them by blaming it on the force or entity of Evil. We are all capable of those things. The problem, disobedience to God’s Will, is in all of us.

Think back to the Garden of Eden. Adam and Eve ate from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. They knew Satan before they ate the fruit. Did they learn of the individual Evil afterwards? If so it wasn’t related to us. And in truth you know they didn’t. The only evil they learned of was that they had the ability to disobey God. That is all evil is and in truth that’s as bad as it could be.
 
Jim an Apostle said:
Apparently God can:

Exo 10:21 And the LORD said unto Moses, Stretch out thine hand toward heaven, that there may be darkness over the land of Egypt, even darkness which may be felt.
Exo 10:22 And Moses stretched forth his hand toward heaven; and there was a thick darkness in all the land of Egypt three days:
Exo 10:23 They saw not one another, neither rose any from his place for three days: but all the children of Israel had light in their dwellings.
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Again, you produce darkness by removing light. There is no indication that anything else happened in these verses. God removed the light so the conditions were described as dark.
 
ZecAustin said:
Again, you produce darkness by removing light. There is no indication that anything else happened in these verses. God removed the light so the conditions were described as dark.
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this darkness was supernatural
it could be felt
when an Egyptian lit a lamp it could not be seen and they had to stay home and could not even see another person in the same room.
 
ZecAustin said:
It was still a removal of light, not a creation of “darkness”.
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Hey Zec, I’ve stayed away from this thread on purpose. I agree with you and your doing a good job with your point. How people can think God could be the source of darkness or evil is beyond me. When he is taken out of the picture, those things show up. I guess that’s a difficult concept to some.
 
ZecAustin said:
Then when was it created and by whom? Did God do something evil? If evil is a physical thing that can be generated is possible for someone who can generate evil to generate enough of it to cancel out someone else’s “good”? Think about it for a minute, or evil as Evil, as an entity with form and function represents a massive theological conundrum. Does Evil control Satan or does Satan control Evil? Is Satan Evil? How did our holy and loving God create evil? Can it defeat an otherwise decent Christian man?

I understand that there are terrible things in the world that we need to put a label on but we shouldn’t try to distance ourselves from them by blaming it on the force or entity of Evil. We are all capable of those things. The problem, disobedience to God’s Will, is in all of us.

Think back to the Garden of Eden. Adam and Eve ate from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. They knew Satan before they ate the fruit. Did they learn of the individual Evil afterwards? If so it wasn’t related to us. And in truth you know they didn’t. The only evil they learned of was that they had the ability to disobey God. That is all evil is and in truth that’s as bad as it could be.
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I've pondered on this for a while and I think I have it. There are 2 ways to approach this. Use what we know of the science of light and dark to understand the spiritual principles of light and dark in the Bible or we can do the inverse and try to understand the physical aspects of light and dark through the spiritual principles. The latter is much harder to do but i did read some stuff on Black holes and light that can be interesting to come at from a biblical view first. Anyways I think its easier coming at it from a physical view first which makes perfect sense to do and I get what you are saying Zech. However I don't think its entirely correct.

In God there is no shadow or light of turning. Lucifer's name means light bearer. His name implies his job which was to bear/spread the light. He was perfect until iniquity was found in him. When he disobeyed God he fell and evil was born. Just want to drop here and say why would God form the heavens perfect and the world in a form absent of light which is most unlike him being the father of lights and all? Anyways, moving on. In the analogy of light and dark I believe Satan "cast" the first shadow. If the language of creating darkness as its own entity bothers you then think shadow. Evil or darkness is the result of disobedience. A willful rejection of God's light. Choshek, the word translated to darkness also means obscurity, distress, dread, terror, evil , sin, sheol and of course death. All of these are the result of disobedience to God. When we sin we too cast a shadow like Satan. We create evil inspite of God's light. Satan was the first to "cast" a shadow but he no longer carries light hence the name change. Satan or opposer/adversary has the exact opposite traits of that of a light bearer. He is the embodiment of darkness. In Jesus there is no darkness, in Satan there is no light. Satan is a real being so to say he doesn't exists, the evil he creates doesn't exists and darkness doesn't exists is an error. If the darkness being the absence of light and not its own entity bit is the trip up then think of the blocking or rejecting of the light as evil and darkness as the result.
 
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Soldier's Psalm said:
I've pondered on this for a while and I think I have it. There are 2 ways to approach this. Use what we know of the science of light and dark to understand the spiritual principles of light and dark in the Bible or we can do the inverse and try to understand the physical aspects of light and dark through the spiritual principles. The latter is much harder to do but i did read some stuff on Black holes and light that can be interesting to come at from a biblical view first. Anyways I think its easier coming at it from a physical view first which makes perfect sense to do and I get what you are saying Zech. However I don't think its entirely correct.

In God there is no shadow or light of turning. Lucifer's name means light bearer. His name implies his job which was to bear/spread the light. He was perfect until iniquity was found in him. When he disobeyed God he fell and evil was born. Just want to drop here and say why would God form the heavens perfect and the world in a form absent of light which is most unlike him being the father of lights and all? Anyways, moving on. In the analogy of light and dark I believe Satan "cast" the first shadow. If the language of creating darkness as its own entity bothers you then think shadow. Evil or darkness is the result of disobedience. A willful rejection of God's light. Choshek, the word translated to darkness also means obscurity, distress, dread, terror, evil , sin, sheol and of course death. All of these are the result of disobedience to God. When we sin we too cast a shadow like Satan. We create evil inspite of God's light. Satan was the first to "cast" a shadow but he no longer carries light hence the name change. Satan or opposer/adversary has the exact opposite traits of that of a light bearer. He is the embodiment of darkness. In Jesus there is no darkness, in Satan there is no light. Satan is a real being so to say he doesn't exists, the evil he creates doesn't exists and darkness doesn't exists is an error. If the darkness being the absence of light and not its own entity bit is the trip up then think of the blocking or rejecting of the light as evil and darkness as the result.
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We’ll soon be able to discuss this in person over a glass of mead. Until then I will assert my old man prerogative to unilaterally declare victory and pretend like my hearing aid is turned down when you protest. Yay me.
 
ZecAustin said:
We’ll soon be able to discuss this in person over a glass of mead. Until then I will assert my old man prerogative to unilaterally declare victory and pretend like my hearing aid is turned down when you protest. Yay me.
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Haha, That sounds good and I look forward to it. I don't think I will be able to make this fellowship since we have a new little one due between now and then but maybe the next one. If the rumors are true and your mead is your secret to that beast of a beard then I am going to have you send me some in the mail. I hadn't shaved in 2 weeks and I look like Joe Dirt. I think it was all the Natty I drank when I was a teen. Whatever the cause I need a beard intervention.
 
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2 Sam 22:10-13
He bowed the heavens also, and came down; and darkness was under his feet.
And he rode upon a cherub, and did fly: and he was seen upon the wings of the wind.
And he made darkness pavilions round about him, dark waters, and thick clouds of the skies.

Exodus 20:21.
And Moses said unto the people, Fear not: for God is come to prove you, and that his fear may be before your faces, that ye sin not. And the people stood afar off, and Moses drew near unto the thick darkness where God was.

1 Kings 8:12 Then spake Solomon, The LORD said that he would dwell in the thick darkness.

Psalms 18:11 He made darkness his secret place; his pavilion round about him were dark waters and thick clouds of the skies.

So apparently God has this thing with thick darkness.
 
The question remains, though: if He didn't create the darkness, where did it come from? And I politely request that no one waste our time repeating the pretzel logic of darkness coming from people or evil spirits because He gave them free will to to create it. We aren't even omnipotent, but if we create a robot with, as part of its software, the ability to unlock and rob ATMs, no one is going to blame the robot for the thefts that ensue. An Omnipotent and Omniscient Being like our God not only created human beings with every single solitary capability they possess but had (and has) the full capability Himself to 100% accurately predict in advance what those human beings would do with their capabilities. It therefore becomes specious to assert that God has nothing to do with the creation of darkness or evil or antichrist or mosquitoes or Jeffrey Dahmer.

Darkness, according to scriptures quoted above by others, can either be the absence of light or something tangible in and of itself. Either way, neither light nor darkness preceded our Father's existence. And, if you think they did, you should be willing to go out on whatever limb you need to go out on to posit what Prior-to-God Being created the conditions you believe pre-existed Him.
 
ZecAustin said:
Again, you produce darkness by removing light. There is no indication that anything else happened in these verses. God removed the light so the conditions were described as dark.
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Can you feel the absence of light?

I think a little more is going on there.

Keith Martin said:
the full capability Himself to 100% accurately predict in advance what those human beings would do with their capabilities.
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There are things God doesn't know until they happen (Gen 22:12, Gen 6:5-6, etc); God gave us free will and can be surprised by our decisions.
 
rockfox said:
There are things God doesn't know until they happen (Gen 22:12, Gen 6:5-6, etc); God gave us free will and can be surprised by our decisions.
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OK, we'll just have to agree to disagree about this. I have no choice but to acknowledge that God has the right to become angry even in response to behavior He wouldn't be surprised by. But I also assume that God is Omniscient, meaning that He knows everything and is outside of time in regard to that knowledge.
 
Keith Martin said:
But I also assume that God is Omniscient, meaning that He knows everything and is outside of time in regard to that knowledge.
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That is the rub. God could be going through time with us! God knowing everything that is, True! God Knowing everything in advance makes many plain scriptures lies. The assumption that Omniscient must include the eternal future is the error!
 
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