That is a potential minefield.
Unless a man is willing to take on a woman as his wife then he's better off helping her from a respectable distance.
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Isaiah 4:1 Wives or Concubines? Covering, Conjugal Rights, and Reproach
- Thread starter RemnantResilience
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That is a potential minefield.
Unless a man is willing to take on a woman as his wife then he's better off helping her from a respectable distance.
Would a man provide the help she needs for the rest of her life without the benefits of her being his wife. Very unlikely.
That would be an exceptional man and an exceptional Christian.
Need is a very subjective word.
With some of us, the “benefits” aren’t all that big of a deal, especially if more than one wife already exists.
The bigger question in my mind is whether she is willing to walk the walk in the way that the family is, or if she is just another “I need help” sponge that soaks up family resources and then moves on to the next mark. I’ve had the worms eye view of that more than once.
RemnantResilience
Member
These are actually the "undesired" women I was referring to in my widows, orphans and reproach question in Pete's online outreach video thread. Where I ask if women are unable to find a husband, even though they are wanting, are they still in reproach? As their situation is not of their own choosing, how can they be held at fault and what kind of picture does that paint? I used beauty as the example in that question, because it is somewhat rare for a generally attractive woman to be unable to find a man to wife her. Most men I've known place beauty at the top of their list, if given the choice. So her beauty gives her economic leverage in man selection that less beautiful women may not have. His access to resources being the deciding factor on who from his pool he chooses. Beauty being subjective to him, but still playing a large role in the decision. If a man is required to provide resources for any woman he takes as a wife, not having unlimited resources means that every wife taken must be considered wisely. If his active pool is 10 but his resources limit him to 1, the most beautiful to him is most likely going to be the one he will choose, leaving 9 women husbandless. Not because he doesn't want any of the others, but because he lacks the resources to take any more on, even though all 10 were interested in him.
This doesn't mean he is holding out for the most beautiful women, but instead chosing the best options for him from his avaiable supply according to the limited resources at his disposal. Simple economics of supply and demand. Considering a life long commitment is a big undertaking, any man who seeks to fulfill this duty, is going to pick the women most worth the investment of his limited resources, with most men unable to entertain all their options, what becomes of the remainder?
This is one of the reasons why I want to define reproach, if we apply a blanket statement to all unmarried women, even when it is no fault of their own, is that placing these women under unfair shame? or if unable to find a husband in a timely matter should she be like the Isaiah 4:1 women and waive her rights just to be covered? Which is more important? The circumstances surrounding scarcity of men being different for the women in Isaiah 4:1 in compaison to the scenario for today's women. The problem is the same, are all women who cannot find a husband, whether out of scarcity of men, limited resources, and ignorance or refusal of biblical marriage in reproach? If not where is the line drawn?
Is Isaiah 4:1 making a general blanket statement for all unwed women? Scarcity having these women so desperate for a husband of any kind that they are willing to waive his requirements, because they all are the women who can't find a husband at this point, regardless of the reason. With most of todays men lacking the resources for even one wife, how much so the remaining men of Isaiah 4:1 to take on 7? Those women left with the only options of waiving their requirements or going husbandless.
On a side note what level of desperation is required to break the modern feminist monogamy only mindset of a woman? It's kind of a scary thought considering how entrenched that mindset is...
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Yes.
I don’t see that anyone has the ability to narrowly define it.
Can you accept that it is a state of being that women were not designed/created for? Does it need more definition than that?
You keep saying that there are women who can’t find husbands because they are less beautiful than other women.
I believe that to be an absolutely false premise and a strawman argument.
It is true that beauty is the first thing that a man is attracted to. But that is merely the initial attraction. If the personality/character/attitude isn’t commensurate, only an unwise man is going to marry her.
I don’t know what world you are living in, but women who are beautiful on the inside can find good husbands. Unless they are holding out for men who are, by the worlds standards, in the top 10%.
Admittedly none of us are perfect, male or female. We must work on becoming people who are desirable in a marriage.
RemnantResilience
Member
Fine, drop the beauty example, it was just for an example. The point I am trying to get across is even in a polygyny acceptable environment there will be remainder women, simply because of a man's limited ability to provide. If being in reproach is a shameful status and is applied as a blanket statement for all unwed women. What of these women who fall under that blanket statement through no fault of their own? What are they to do? Do they attach to a family as a concubine? Waive their exodus 21:10 rights? Should she wait in silence and hope someone comes along? Does the man need to ramp up and expand himself so he can take on any and all suitors? And if hes not ready does she wait paitently for him? Should he strive to always be in a position to take on any suitors, without discretion? With there being no obligation for a man to even marry. The 10 virgins come to mind, as does the nearer kinsman redeemer in ruth.
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In my experience a woman who seeks out life as a plural is going to require a good reason.
She's going to impact all of her existing relationships and risk losing them. For instance I lost all of my friends from before.
And if she's the ideal "Unicorn" who's perfect in every way then that girl is going to be attractive to mono men as a first wife and there's no motivation for her to take the social and legal risks of being a plural.
Plural minded women are going to be:
1. Women who have experienced some sort of trauma.
2. Divorced or widowed with few prospects.
3. Single mothers with few prospects.
3a. Single women with few prospects for whatever reason.
4. Women who grew up in the life and can't find someone who wants them as a first.
5. Less likely are immigrants.
1). The first order of business is to bring the truth of polygyny to all people who fear Yah.
2). Concurrently showing women that they were created to be with a leader/covering.
Then let the chips fall where they may. Every person must search their own heart and decide what they can do about the situation. The result is between them and their Master/Creator. Not anyone else’s to judge.
But creating a class of “Not a reproach because they couldn’t find husbands” is adding to His Word.
Personally, I believe that you are making the “shame” too big of a deal. It is a mere classification that, with prayer and diligence, can be changed.
It doesn’t mean “condemned by Yah” or “gross sin” in anybody’s book, that I know of. It simply means not in total alignment with who she is called to be.
I would add:
6. Women who haven’t found really good men and who have come to the understanding that being a sister wife to a great man is preferable to being an only wife, or even first wife, to a man that is mediocre at best.
May I ask why you lost ALL your friends? It seems to me that a true friend, after having been shown the truth of God’s Word, won’t abandon you. In my mind if a friend discards you, then they weren’t a true friend to begin with. I don’t believe I would abandon a friend simply because they believe differently as I do.
This is one aspect my wife is concerned about, when we bring in a second wife. She’s concerned about losing friends. I’m not particularly worried about it.
You can believe all day long that it shouldn’t change your life, until it does.
Proceed as if your wife is correct, while praying that she is not.
While I largely agree, and think MeganC makes some great point, I do think this bears comment:
What happened to "all the Good Ones are already taken?" There ARE in fact (and I hope - others even - are HERE!
) some great examples of men who are just simply able to be better husbands than most (especially those who are "over ...well, pick-a-number" will otherwise find.
What happened to "all the Good Ones are already taken?" There ARE in fact (and I hope - others even - are HERE!
) some great examples of men who are just simply able to be better husbands than most (especially those who are "over ...well, pick-a-number" will otherwise find.
Actually, it can be FAR worse than that. (Been there, done that.)
Some, arguably not deserving of the term 'friend,' will seek to SABOTAGE the marriage.
PS> And the Whore Church will probably help 'em,
I didn't have a lot of friends to begin with. Many acquaintances but not many friends.
Then life got complicated at home and the acquaintances disappeared. Then I started getting into the idea of poly and as I discussed it my friends dropped off. Then I got married as a plural and while a couple friends visited I think they were just curious. That left the person I thought of as my best friend and I think she thought this was contagious or something and she stopped writing to me after a while.
Now I have new friends. Three of whom I live with.
Same. I don’t really have that many friends to begin with. I’m an introvert and have a super small circle of friends so not really worried about losing friends.I didn't have a lot of friends to begin with. Many acquaintances but not many friends.
Then life got complicated at home and the acquaintances disappeared. Then I started getting into the idea of poly and as I discussed it my friends dropped off. Then I got married as a plural and while a couple friends visited I think they were just curious. That left the person I thought of as my best friend and I think she thought this was contagious or something and she stopped writing to me after a while.
Now I have new friends. Three of whom I live with.
Don’t really care what the church thinks. I’ve already made my mind up about what I believe so they can think whatever they want to. Not concerned.
My desire would be for my wife and a potential new wife to be essentially best friends.
What about older widows? Should they remarry. Generally older women wouldn’t be having children? So should they at a certain age be required to remarry??
Do you have to be married to be “covered” ??